T16 Warlock Style - Heroic & Mythic

[Zagam 1,982]

Leaving a guild is never fun times.  Always best to treat it like a breakup.  Don't promise to stay in contact.  Don't sugarcoat things.  Don't badmouth them.  Make it a cleancut.  This is how I've always done it.

 

"I've enjoyed my time here and I appreciate the opportunity to raid with you all.  I am moving on for personal reasons, and I would like to wish you all the best from here on out.  Thanks again for the opportunity to be a part of this team."

 

It's short, sweet, to the point, and doesn't leave a sour taste.  If one of the officers or raiders contact you asking, tell them you're not willing to discuss why.  If you feel like telling them something, tell them that you felt like your goals couldn't be reached with that group and that you're unwilling to lay blame at anyone's feet and that it just felt like the right time to move on.  You will, however, be abandoning a raid group and leaving them a raider short.  Typically the raiders who leave were one of the best in the team.  They leave because they felt held back by teammates - and they're usually right.  When a raid group loses its best player, it starts to really feel the burn.  Refilling the gap is hard to do.  This is why hardcore guilds have a DEEP bench of several players who would make the starting lineup for slightly lesser progressed guilds. 

 

You should always make at least 1 or 2 efforts to try to make your group better.  It's great to make suggestions to your raid leader on things that could be done differently with knowledge of other classes.  However, there is a line in becoming a helpful assistant to crossing over to nuisance/arrogant dude who knows everything.  If your patience is met with improvement, then your guild will be better.  If your patience is met with stubbornness and a lack of desire to improve, you are FULLY justified in leaving. 

 

YOU pay to play this game how YOU want.  If you aren't getting what YOU want out of it in your current gig, it's up to YOU to make the change. 

[Soulzar 42]

 

We had a rough time this tier as well.  Just after Thok died one of our main tanks decided to back away from game.  We got a replacement tank right away and everything was great.  Then Thanksgiving, Xmas, New Years... and our new tank went on a fam vacation just after new years.  We went two weeks limping with alts trying to do prenerf Blackfuse.  This obviously stressed out more folks carrying the undergeared players on the hardest fight.  This caused our Top DPS to quit, who also happened to be our strongest belt person.  Then a week later the PQR bot mass ban took out our Hunter (other best belt person) who decided after his ban to just quit.  All the time another officer getting increasingly combative and unpleasant for all to be around.

 

We lost our 3 boss progression lead and another guild got Blackfuse and Paragons down while we were struggling to form a raid.  Very demoralizing, very frustrating.

 

Things were stressful and despite all my close friendships in the guild I was a day removed from leaving to try and finish things up.  Then, the next day.. another guild broke up and two of its top healer/dsp and dps came to join us (they had been part of our second team earlier in expac) and a week later another of their mates.

 

We are now working on Garrosh and on pace to steal back our Realm first. Fingers crossed.

 

Don't stay on a sinking ship, but ... sometimes things can also turn around in dramatic fashion.  In the week it took me to weigh Friendships in guild vs progression, everything sorted itself out.

[Soulzar 42]

The F&B conflags are primarily to haste a CB with procs before I have to go to Eng, and to have one hasted CB for a better buffer on reliably killing him.  The F&B incin is just a global to wait on the second Conflag recharge.  I was initially doing Immo, double conflag, 2xcb then going for Eng but I sacrificed the second CB to Garrosh to give myself a safer Engineer window.  I could probably drop the Incin in favor of a CB only adding a second on my timing to engineer, but I don't run haste so feel the backdraft charges are important in my timing.

 

The only FnB I ever cast in phase 1 is an immolate. With RoF and FnB Immolate I've never had ember issues, I personally don't see the value of the FnB conflag and Incins when you can pump CBs into Garrosh.

 

 

Last night I dropped the initial F&B Incin in favor for an extra CB and it worked fine for my timing.  F&B Immo, CB, F&B conflagx2, CB, Havoc, gateway.

 

Tell your tanks and everyone avaible to instant cast everything/taunt instantly.

 

It's kinda bugged indeed.

 

 

Follow up here, this made a huge impact.  The previous night we made the energy timer perhaps 6 times in the night... last night we missed the first one only and got it every other attempt.  Really helped our progress to consistently get that phase cleared.  Hit phase 4 for the first time, even if the only person who got ported to SW was our Tank, the only person alive after he AoE the raid with his debuff (first time there, we were not quite prepared for the 600k hit lol)

[Kink 2]

Good read from you two, and hopefully it helps some people in that situation. I personally didn't have the best teamwork skills before I started raiding, besides playing a couple sports raiding really was a big improvement to my teamwork and relationship building abilities with people you don't know yet; You are pretty much the new kid in school. It's definitely a rough feeling, WoW is the only game that has legitimately made me nervous when trying out to a new group, I feel like I'm going on a job interview even, you can tell yourself it's clearly not the same thing but it still can make that big of an impact on you, and that's why I love this game. 

I hate backseat raiding, and I hate when I do it in hindsight, especially when say a lock in the group is running a spec that isn't so helpful during that fight while doing progression, I'd be doing the group harm by not letting him know but I'm also a strong believer in play how you want to play, but it's just one of those things that come with progression, especially in a more hardcore guild, I've learned. 

People are sometimes shocked when you apply life values to WoW, it's a game and all, but the person you are in real life is going to deeply impact the way you take it into your group and self performance. Waiting for success or a better environment to come knocking at your door while you sit around and do nothing to improve your situation is your own fault. It takes a strong person to make that step, and it's yours and only yours to take it. 

Edited March 25, 2014 by Kink

[mediocregatsby 18]

i'm probably one of the last people to find out about this but apparently havocing onto IJ's crawler mines generates embers even though they're immune to dmg. i kinda fucked it up and accidentally havoc'd IJ himself once or twice and our melee jumped on the mines before i got 3 spells off, but getting just a few extra emberbits in a short fight like this makes a really big difference. got a new best record at 444k DPS 

[Liquidsteel 279]

Yeah I always had to play a guessing game of trying to havoc the one furthest away from the tank. Always got it wrong.

[Strife 6]

Last night I dropped the initial F&B Incin in favor for an extra CB and it worked fine for my timing.  F&B Immo, CB, F&B conflagx2, CB, Havoc, gateway.

 

 

Follow up here, this made a huge impact.  The previous night we made the energy timer perhaps 6 times in the night... last night we missed the first one only and got it every other attempt.  Really helped our progress to consistently get that phase cleared.  Hit phase 4 for the first time, even if the only person who got ported to SW was our Tank, the only person alive after he AoE the raid with his debuff (first time there, we were not quite prepared for the 600k hit lol)

 

 

Wait what do you do at the start before the adds come in?

 

I do my normal single target rotation before the adds even group up with Garrosh. So normally it's prepot, precast Incin, Doomguard, cooldowns + immo, 2x Conflag, 1-2 incins to get 2 embers, 1x CB. 

 

After my first CB is when the adds are usually there, so it'll follow with a RoF + FnB Immolate that has a bunch of stuff snapshotted on it with 1 or both trinkets, meta, and skull banners usually. From there it's 2x more CBs before I start running. While I'm running I'll havoc garrosh, RoF again, 1x more conflag which has come back up, and then teleport to where I place my portal in range of the engi.

 

The first engi I only need 1x CB and a conflag then shadowburn since people usually have some of the benefits from their opener still running. By the time I gateway back to garrosh I'll usually be back at 3-4 embers from the shadowburn and the rolling Immos on the adds plus residual RoF when I was first running over. If I'm not at 4 embers I'll shadowburn one of the adds who is usually under 20% before getting knocked into the iron star. 

[Alphric 7]

I’ve been playing destro consistently throughout the first 3wings for a little while, and I tried demo last night with moderate su?ccess-especially on spoils-even though I don’t have bby. We’re finally on wing 4 and I’m just trying to make sure I do whatever’s best for our progression. That being said-should I consider affliction on blackfuse or stick with destro since I have the dark shaman trinket

Edited March 28, 2014 by Alphric

[Jazii 0]

Hey guys. I'm sorry if this was the wrong spot to put this. I wasn't to sure if i should open up a thread or not. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bm2K1AaxtypBvXZc#type=damage-done&target=43&fight=18 Link to our best heroic garrosh attempt.(I'm camii, if i was the other lock i wouldn't feel bad lol) We're very close to getting Garrosh but I don't feel like i'm doing enough damage on him. During the fight I don't feel like i'm doing anything wrong, but I'm still not 100% comfortable with destro. I just know i should be doing more. I tried to look at madlers dmg and what I'm doing. His CB is tons higher, but I didn't think i was really doing anything wrong with CB. One thing i do sometimes i know is cap on embers which is bad. But for the most part i'm trying not to, casting on KTT procs/Bindings Dark soul etc. I'm also tracking jade spirit, my tailoring proc etc. Any help big or small would be amazing. I just want to feel like i did great on it when we finally do kill it. We're 180 wipes in and got him to around 16% during the 4th malice when things went bad. I think it may be a kill next week. My armory in case it's needed. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormrage/Camii/advanced

Edited March 28, 2014 by Jazii

[Liquidsteel 279]

I'm pretty bad at analysing warcraft logs (leave it to Zagam or one of the others to really pick stuff out), but I can offer some logs of my own from when I killed it on 25 man.

 

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/brtMmhBnPp79RgwT#type=damage-done&source=26

 

This is from our second or third 25H kill IIRC. The fight is a minute longer than your last wipe. Bear in mind that at the time i was still around 573ilvl so quite a bit lower than you, and was running 10.4k haste as opposed to your crit heavy build.

 

Still, what I can pick out is that chaos bolt did 54.6M damage for you, and for me it did 91.29M. 

 

Incinerate did 45.22M for you, and 60M for me.

 

Our immolate damage was similar, but even though you had over 5k more crit than me, my immolate ticks crit 56.6% of the time, whereas for you it only crit 55.7%.

 

My guess is that you A) Aren't maintaining Immolate with 4 set enough. B) Are capping embers OR Having to interrupt casts of Chaos Bolt due to movement.

 

One of the reasons I'm an advocate of Haste for Destro is that it allows you to squeeze off those Chaos Bolts which otherwise would have been risky or impossible, such as having to get in for Mind Control or whatever.

 

Like I said, I'm pretty bad at analysing logs, but there's a bit of information there to consider at least.

[Jazii 0]

I always felt like i was over refreshing Immolate with the 4 piece, but is that the way to go? It pops and you try to get an immolate and CB out of it? And yeah i'm looking at your Garrosh dmg. You guys cast CB alot more than i did. I think i'm going to give next week a try with a higher haste build. I probably am capping on embers when I shouldn't. Thanks for looking it over!

[Alphric 7]

I’ve been playing destro consistently throughout the first 3wings for a little while, and I tried demo last night with moderate su?ccess-especially on spoils-even though I don’t have bby. We’re finally on wing 4 and I’m just trying to make sure I do whatever’s best for our progression. That being said-should I consider affliction on blackfuse or stick with destro since I have the dark shaman trinket

Disregard the weird ass font shenanigans...idk what's up with that

[Rrasis 13]

Hey Camii I had a fight this week that lasted only 10 seconds longer than yours did so I figured it would be a good comparison

 

you cast 39 chaos bolts to my 52, my average chaos bolt did 1.44 million damage to your 1.67m. but I still did 11 million more, it could be something as simple as  what Shizwix talked about that your lack of haste is making you unable to squeeze in those chaos bolts.

 

you had 154 incinerate casts to my 217, 39 immolates to my 36. so you may be over immolating and missing out on some incinerates. are you single targeting weapons or adds? other than phase one the only time I damage something is with havoc or applying immolates to the weapons never incinerates.

 

you're doing a really good job of conflaging, you have more than me which tells me that I'm probably slacking and letting it hit 2 far too often. your rain of fire count is less than me, are you ROF when people are being MC'ed? I can gain at least one if not 2+ embers just from that depending on how long the melee let them live.

 

I was able to use DS 2 more times than you did and it doesn't look like you have berzerking.

 

you switched into fire and brimstone 6 times, 3 of those times being the end of phase 3 it looks like. there should be no reason you should have to aoe that much in phase 3 or any phase really. I switch to it twice. once with the first adds and use conflag twice to gain embers so I can put out more chaos bolts while riding all my buffs and once during the second adds to put immolate on all of them since they last longer. otherwise i'm just laying down RoF and single targeting garrosh.

 

as far as procs go you had 2 more totem procs than I did and I had 1 extra Expanded mind. you had 2 more meta gems procs as well.

 

only once did you hold embers for far too long and that was for about 15 seconds, the rest of the time was less than 4 seconds. with such high crit you're going to see a lot bigger difference when you don't manage your chaosbolts properly or you don't get as many, higher haste will get you more chaos bolts and you'll have more chances to use them during your procs.

 

you seem to have a long pause where you didn't use any havocs, remember that you can still havoc the empowered weapons even though you can't kill them you can still use them to help build more embers. I would create a macro that allows for mouseover havocs so that you can do a quick havoc of the weapon and keep doing normal dps to Garrosh rather than having to worry about switching targets.

 

To give you an idea of where you should be at with garrosh damage, after phase one I'm normally between 40 and 50 million. after phase 2 I'm normally 100-115 million. I never notice what I'm at towards the end of phase 3 because we either pushed in time or we didn't. my garrosh damage ended up being about 28 million higher than yours in a fight 10 seconds longer. I've seen differences larger than that just from one lock having a good run and another lock screwing up on one part or getting mc'ed and missing out on a set of procs, your friend is only 11 million higher in the parse I'm looking at so I wouldn't worry too much yet. overall you're doing well and you'll continue improving as you guys start farming him.

 

 

If you're getting to phase 4 then you guys are doing fine, you'll have plenty of time to fine tune your dps but if you're able to make it to phase 4 your raid is doing fine just make sure you have the phase 4 mechanics down and you'll get a win very soon.

[Jazii 0]

Thanks a bunch Rrasis. I think i am doing immolate a bit more than i should. I'm only havocing weapons to dps them, unless i see one low coming back from heart phase or something and ill snipe it with a SB. Ooh big question before I keep going. Glyph of havoc or no? I've been using it. That might be the reason why you think i wasn't casting it enough. Unless i really did forget at one point. I might have. And these are the times i'm using DS. Pull, heart phase during weapon swings cause bindings usually procs right then. I pop it again during mid phase 2, about a minute before we get to second heart phase. We skip the second heart phase which I don't know if you do also, that could be another cause for less cast. I pop my next DS coming out of that phase and then i think the last one comes up before entering phase 4, i honestly can't remember right now. And yeah i'm a human lock. Yuck trolls! (i'd be the worst raider ever and go belf if i went horde lol) I do try to ROF mcs, i know i miss some though. 

 

The fire and brimstone switches in phase 3 was to use conflag on the mc people. Should i just not do that? Thanks a bunch  for the reply! It helped. 

[Rrasis 13]

you're havocs were fairly good, i like to use the glyphed because even though you can't use it as often you're only losing 1 gcd instead of 2. i just noticed a gap and thought that gap might be in phase 3, a lot of people don't know you can still havoc the empowered weapons to gain embers even though there's no way to actually kill the weapon.

 

you want to be timing your DS with your Bindings proc, there are several weak auras that will not only pop up when it's proced but also give you the internal cooldown so that you have an idea of when you'll be getting the proc again. I believe this is where I got mine. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1266785-Warlock-Weak-Auras

 

for MC's watch the timer, I like to RoF when there is 1 second left prior to the MC's going out, that way if I get MC'ed I still get the embers from my RoF rather than losing out on all potential embers if I get MC'ed.

 

for damage on MC'ed people melee's direct damage and everyone normal cleave like your legendary cloak should be enough to kill them quickly, if you notice one is out of the group feel free to direct damage him, I like to Sac my felhunter it gives me an extra interupt for the first intermission as well as if we have a Stray MC. hopefully you have a DK able to grab and pull him in or something. my group has it down well enough just RoF and keep working on the boss.

[Jazii 0]

We killed him!! And boa staff. Overall i felt i did a lot better tonight. Higher haste and i didn't use glyphed havoc since during the lag i get for first set of adds and weapon i wasn't getting full use of it all. I messed up a bit during our kill attempt and had to run back and rez someone during phase 4 but the other attempts i was doing better than what i was. Thanks for the help =) 

[JvChequer 43]

First week of 25m we did not killed Paragons because internet problems, our last try - of around 15 in that boss - we manage to reach at last paragon.

 

Well, this week we'll kill it and maybe Garrosh, I hope so.

 

But my dps still poor, need some serious improve, let's study more :-P

[Liquidsteel 279]

Paragons is a lot harder on 25 man than it is on 10. On 25 you are limited by space which adds an extra element of difficulty 10 man doesn't have. Coming from 25 to 10 it was quite funny how faceroll it was.

Stuff like dropping amber properly or dealing with xarils choose catalyst requires much less thought and planning on 10 man.

This will definitely have an adverse effect on your dps until you adjust.

[JvChequer 43]

Paragons is a lot harder on 25 man than it is on 10. On 25 you are limited by space which adds an extra element of difficulty 10 man doesn't have. Coming from 25 to 10 it was quite funny how faceroll it was.

Stuff like dropping amber properly or dealing with xarils choose catalyst requires much less thought and planning on 10 man.

This will definitely have an adverse effect on your dps until you adjust.

 

Not my dps particularly on this fight, was doing about 370-390k dps, just fine, but the core is new, we join up two 10m 14/14H guilds and we're learning how to play with each other and the dps it's not that good yet like was in 10H.

 

25m it's harder on Paragons, one of the unique fights that 25m it's indeed harder, maybe that and malkorok only.

 

But we give it only 15 tries, more 5-10 and we gonna nail it for sure.

Edited April 1, 2014 by JvChequer

[Desos 18]

Once you get somewhat safe to the last 2 paragons, it is killable even after the berserk timer if you kill Karoz at the end, since he will jump around, throwing amber and whirling through the room. 2 easily avoidable mechanics. Even with "low" dps manageable when you got a bear tank and healer who can handle the scorpion. From the logs I found, you use a bear tank, too.
Next ID I will try to use FnB at the beginning on the Amber Parasites for ember generation
 

[Zagam 1,982]

Paragons may be harder with 25, but Garrosh certainly is not.  Paragons creates a 'space' issue with 25 people only if people are standing in bad places.  You only have to worry about Aim, Ambers, and the color mutations during Xaril.  After Xaril dies, the only spatial issues you have are people standing in bad places for Death From Above and Kuchong's Mesmerize.  The difficulty comes from having 25 people last 12 minutes without making a mistake that wipes groups instead of 10 players.  Paragons is one of the interesting fights that doesn't let you carry people very easily.  However, if you make it through Xaril, the DPS requirement for the fight goes down pretty substantially to the point 25s can have 5-10 people dead.  If more than 1 or 2 is dead in 10 man, you come pretty hard on that enrage timer.

[JvChequer 43]

Paragons may be harder with 25, but Garrosh certainly is not.  Paragons creates a 'space' issue with 25 people only if people are standing in bad places.  You only have to worry about Aim, Ambers, and the color mutations during Xaril.  After Xaril dies, the only spatial issues you have are people standing in bad places for Death From Above and Kuchong's Mesmerize.  The difficulty comes from having 25 people last 12 minutes without making a mistake that wipes groups instead of 10 players.  Paragons is one of the interesting fights that doesn't let you carry people very easily.  However, if you make it through Xaril, the DPS requirement for the fight goes down pretty substantially to the point 25s can have 5-10 people dead.  If more than 1 or 2 is dead in 10 man, you come pretty hard on that enrage timer.

Agree.

Until Xaril it's dead the fight on 25m it's harder indeed but after it, it's peace of cake, we wiped on it because ppl dcing in middle of fight and killing eachother, something like that.

This week we want to kill garrosh, think less than 30 tries to down it if our 3rd tank can manage ok the Kaitting stuff.

Edited April 1, 2014 by JvChequer

[Soulzar 42]

Garrosh Dead Woots.  Myself and our other normal Vid person both died during p4 Iron star impact.  Not the most exciting ends to our kill vids being dead in a pile of fire on the opposite side of the room  lol.  Had to be one of my poorer attempts of course, but who gives a flip he is dead!

 

Rolled Offhand so was able to change my gear for the first time in like 4 months lol.

[Mephistolol 0]

10 Man Heroic Siegecrafter -- Anyone got a flawless strat? video? 

Better yet, belt order that makes it cheese? 

Cheers

[Zagam 1,982]

The weapon line-up is as follows:

 

1.Wave 1: Crawler Mines, Missile Turret, Laser Turret

2.Wave 2: Crawler Mines, Missile Turret, Laser Turret

3.Wave 3: Electromagnet, Missile Turret, Laser Turret

4.Wave 4: Crawler Mines, Missile Turret, Laser Turret

5.Wave 5: Electromagnet, Crawler Mine, Missile Turret

6.Wave 6: Crawler Mines, Crawler Mines, Laser Turret

7.Wave 7: Crawler Mine, Missile Turret, Laser Turret

8.Wave 8: Electromagnet, Crawler Mines, Missile Turret

9.Wave 9: Crawler Mines, Laser Turret, Laser Turret

10.Wave 10: Crawler Mines, Missile Turret, Laser Turret

11.Wave 11: Electromagnet, Missile Turret, Missile Turret

12.Wave 12: Crawler Mines, Electromagnet, Laser Turret

13.Enrage

 

 

1. Belt = Kill Laser - Empower Mines, Normal Missile - dodge 3 missiles, Vortex + Tendrils on spawn, Shadowfury/Thunderstorm on Mines

2. Belt = Kill Laser - Empower Missile, Normal Mines - ranged burn Missiles, kill Mines - no CDs

3. Belt = Kill Missile - Empower Magnet, Normal Laser - one laser + AoE damage - Mydol BoPs Kaz for Tranquility, Wov BoPs laser target - TAKE FIRE TO MIDDLE

4. Belt = Kill Laser - See Wave 1

5. Belt = Kill Missile - Empower Magnet, Normal Mines - small AoE damage, kill 3 small mines - high DPS on boss

6. Belt = Kill Mines - Empower Laser, Normal Mines - Zagam solos mines, raid dumps on boss

7. Belt = Kill Laser - See Wave 2

8. Belt = Kill Missile - See Wave 5

9. Belt = Kill Laser - See Waves 1, 4, 6

10. Belt = Kill Laser - See Wave 2, 7

11. Belt = Kill Missile - Empower Magnet, Normal Missile - All remaining defensive CDs

12. Belt = Kill Laser - Empower Mines, Normal Magnet - Kill bombs, finish boss

 

 

RECAP

 

BELTS 1, 4, 6, 9 -> OFFENSIVE BELTS - USE CDS, STUNS, SNARES ON BOMBS AND DODGE MISSILES

BELTS 2, 7, 10 -> EMPOWERED MISSILES WITH SOME SMALL BOMBS - CONTROL MINES AND KILL MISSILES

BELTS 3, 5, 8 -> EMPOWERED MAGNETS - USE DEFENSIVE CDS

 

 

Belt 1 - Offensive

Belt 2 - Missile + Mines

Belt 3 - Defensive - Kaz Tranquility

Belt 4 - Offensive

Belt 5 - Defensive - Hybrys Healing Tide + AG, Personals

Belt 6 - Offensive

Belt 7 - Missiles + Mines

Belt 8 - Defensive - Kaz Tranquility

Belt 9 - Offensive

Belt 10 - Missiles + Mines

 

This is what my group used.  Video link here: http://www.twitch.tv/kazistrasz/c/3835200