Octagon

Reaching a 'ceiling'

12 posts in this topic

Hello, haven't posted much before, but I would like some advice on how to become a better player. I have been playing since before Naxxramas - I have a fairly well rounded card collection, have pre-bought most of the card sets so I generally have plenty of dust and craft a lot of the key cards as I go along. My deck building skills aren't that great at the moment (finding the post-Un'Goro meta difficult in this respect) but I sometimes come up with my own decks that can compete at the level I'm usually at. I mostly use decks from on here and try to follow the mulligans/strategies as best I can. So, it's not that I haven't got good cards or haven't got decent decks to use - I will often use versions of decks that are prevalent in the current meta, that other people are getting to legend with. Having eliminated those things, I think it must be that I'm consistently making bad decisions, and falling into traps that better players are setting for me.

I have never actually been able to get past rank 10. I'm usually hovering around between 15 and 11. I enjoy the game so much that I've always been happy to be around this level, and I'm generally not that great at games that involve complex strategies... But it is a bit frustrating for me that I can never seem to break rank 10. I might never get to legend but I would be really happy to get a bit further up the ladder. Seriously, just getting into single figures would feel like a great achievement for me!

I have recently started watching videos of good players on YouTube, and I think I'm picking up one or two things, but there are so many videos that I don't really know which ones might be of help to me. I would greatly appreciate any advice that might help me improve my skills. Thanks!

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Hey,

I would recommend you to focus on one deck (preferably a Tier 1 deck - deck choice matters a lot) and keep playing with the deck over and over again until you learn the deck well enough. You can watch videos of pro players playing the deck, because they might know tricks that are not obvious, and that are too specific of too hard to describe in a written guide that we focus on. Watching streams can also be beneficial, but the info tends to be less condensed, making it arguably a less efficient tool for learning.

If your collection is big enough, I would suggest using Pirate Warrior or Midrange Murloc Paladin for standard, and Renolock or Pirate Warrior for wild.

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I agree, focus on one deck that suits you.

Don't bother with self-made decks, chances you make something better then the known decks are next to zero. But chances are high you use a deck which isn't Tier 1.

 

If you play Wild and you are not a huge aggro-deck fan I can recommend Jade-Shaman deck.

https://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/midrange-jade-shaman-wild-un-goro-deck

(I just realize, that I have two changes in my deck. I don't run Feral Spirit but 2 copies of Jinyu Waterspeaker and Jade Chieftain. Maybe I should change that)

It is still very strong IMO. I didn't play wild last month, this month I got from 20 to 5 without much problems. Then from 5 to 4 with 7:1.

Sure, I just had a few games, maybe I was just lucky, but like I said, IMO it is still a very strong deck.

And I like to play it a lot, I am not an aggro fan. And it is fairly cheap, except for Aya Blackpaw there is no legendary you may have to craft. If you haven't her and if you have never played this deck ust use a second Jade Chieftain and try the deck out. Aya is better obviously, but the change doesn't hurt too much and this way you don't have to invest anything to get a feeling if you like it.

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Hi positiv - I think you have identified one of my key failings there - I seem to drift from deck to deck, getting disillusioned with one after a run of bad results, then wanting to try others I see being played which look like fun. I've never stuck to one particular deck and I've opened/crafted plenty of cards across each of the classes (except Druid, which I almost never play) enabling me to build loads of different decks, but I rarely stick to one for very long. I think there is some value in playing the prevalent decks in the current meta - this gives you an insight into the options that your opponents have at their disposal which can be really useful - but I think you're right in that changing decks too often has probably been a major factor in my lack of success on the ladder.

I'm not into the pirate warriors at all (been playing some control and N'Zoth ones recently though)... I've never actually played a murloc deck - I have seen how effective the murloc paladins can be at the moment; Hydrologist is a really good card... I would have to craft Finja though.

Hey Wedge. I was actually considering crafting Aya very recently for a similar deck to that one (might even have been that exact one). I have really enjoyed playing various midrange shamans in the past although I've never run a jade deck of any kind. I'll think about trying that one out if my current deck doesn't work out for me...

Since not long before I wrote this post I have been exclusively running a secret mage deck, pretty close to a tier 1 deck but with a couple of substitutions - I have an Ice Block in place of Tar Creeper (great activator for Medivh's Valet and gives you an extra turn in close matches), and I've never liked Yogg (I think he backfires too often, don't want to craft him) so I've replaced him with a Pyroblast which gives you a lot of reach should you make it to turn 10 and people don't seem to expect it - it can be a really aggressive deck at times and Pyroblast seems to fit in with this for me. I'm having some really good results with this deck, currently threatening rank ten, getting better at choosing which secret to play, and generally enjoying it. I'm going to have a look on YouTube to watch some other people playing it; see if there are any not-so-obvious mistakes I'm making. hopefully I'll manage to beat 10 by the end of the season!

Thanks to both of you for your advice and I will consider the decks you have suggested if I don't get my desired success with secret mage. :-)

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'maining' one deck is definitely the way to climb. especially a tier 1 deck that you are comfortable with and enjoy playing. (I advise against playing a 'good'  deck if you don't like the style)

That being said I think we've missed out on a key bit of advice here.

 

If you are reasonably knowledgeable about the game and the current meta you should aim to work on prediction.

I've not reached legend until I started actively playing around my enemies cards. Loads of plays can be seen from a mile away. Try to bait out aoe or removal from your opponent so they can't remove your key creatures anymore. Keep your own removals for the truly important threats. etc.

Catching my drift?

One tool to help make your life much easier is using a deck tracker. Not only will deck tracers keep track of which cards are left in your deck but they will also show you which cards the enemy has played (always good to know the opponent has used only one of his swipes). It will also work out some help with secrets using process of elimination. Let's say your hunter opponent plays a secret, you will see a list of all the possible secrets it could be. as soon as you play let's say a minion. if the secret does not pop you will know it is not a snipe and this one will then be greyed out in the list. this is very useful for playing around secrets.

Finally and maybe most importantly, it will save replays of your matches. This is particularly important if you truly want to climb. i you lose a game and you think you've tried your very best. Check the replay. each turn evaluate what you could've done differently to shift things in your favor. doing this is what actually got me to legend.

 

One last remark before I drop the mic. rank 15 to 10 is still where you'll find a loads of 'average' players. as soon as you start going higher you should treat each game like it's the last one you need to reach legend 1. It may sound a bit overstated but it's really not. The game changes a lot less from this point onward and you should really try hard. Additionally, you are never going to climb higher unless you invest a bunch of time as well. the reason good players climb so high is not because they win every game but because they may have played 200 games with a deck that has 51% win ratio. Persistence is the key.

 

Shine out!

*drops mic*

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Several things helped me to get legend this season for first time, i think it will help you too:

  1. stick to several tier 1 or tier 2 decks.
  2. use decktracker, it helps you to play better, not forgetting secrets or card opponent have left; and which is more important - you can review your games, i mostly reviewd losses or comebacks.
  3. don't switch after loss, or some number of losses. i played 12 (change to smaller number at start) games with one deck, changed it if it went below 50%. Yesterday i was 2 wins to legend, dropped to 2 rank with 3 stars, switched deck and went 9-1 to my goal.
  4. don't be afraid to add your opponents with interesting decks or whom you lose to to ask questions about your play or deck, or ask their decklist.
  5. current ladder system is such that you can compensate skill level with number of games, so either try to improve, or play a lot.

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The only thing that I can add to this that I haven't seen suggested yet is Music. Find you an album that you really enjoy, either online or what have you, and pop in some headphones. When I'm laddering I have music playing and it helps take some of the stress of the game away. 

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11 minutes ago, KingMe said:

The only thing that I can add to this that I haven't seen suggested yet is Music. Find you an album that you really enjoy, either online or what have you, and pop in some headphones. When I'm laddering I have music playing and it helps take some of the stress of the game away. 

Agreed, I always listen to music when I play, not only ladder, also tournaments.

However, one thing I realized, if the rythm of music is fast somehow, it also affect my decision-making towards faster moves, instead of well-thought ones.

Or maybe I always play fast, I just blame music.

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I'm doing really well guys - I'm pleased with myself! I can't believe I went up five ranks so quickly given my lack of experience on this part of the ladder. There have still been games where I've made stupid mistakes but generally speaking I'm learning the ins and outs of my deck and getting better at guessing what plays my opponents are going to make. I also think it doesn't hurt that secret mage is a really powerful deck at the moment - if you're using it well, you can generally get an advantage out of your opponent that wins you the match.

I have resisted the idea of deck trackers for while now, but I'm starting to think that it's a tool I'll have to employ if I'm going to compete at this level and have a chance of reaching legend. Thanks to everyone for all the other pieces of advice - I'll take them into account. I do sometimes listen to music while I'm playing, but maybe I should do it more often. :-)

Hearthstone Screenshot 05-31-17 01.20.57.png

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50 minutes ago, Octagon said:

I'm doing really well guys - I'm pleased with myself! I can't believe I went up five ranks so quickly given my lack of experience on this part of the ladder. There have still been games where I've made stupid mistakes but generally speaking I'm learning the ins and outs of my deck and getting better at guessing what plays my opponents are going to make. I also think it doesn't hurt that secret mage is a really powerful deck at the moment - if you're using it well, you can generally get an advantage out of your opponent that wins you the match.

I have resisted the idea of deck trackers for while now, but I'm starting to think that it's a tool I'll have to employ if I'm going to compete at this level and have a chance of reaching legend. Thanks to everyone for all the other pieces of advice - I'll take them into account. I do sometimes listen to music while I'm playing, but maybe I should do it more often. :-)

Hearthstone Screenshot 05-31-17 01.20.57.png

glad yo hear it's working. I was reluctant to use deck tracers at first. It's mainly a quality o life thing. you really don't have to remember all the cards played that game ^^

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a very interesting thread - I too have never gone past rank 10, mainly because I enjoy playing classes that appeal to me rather than classes that have tier 1 decks. Have had some fantastically fun games with my Ungoro dragon priest though, including Lyra the Sunshard & 2xRadiant Elemental & Free From Amber as a flexible end game finishers.  Don't think rank 10 is anything to be sniffed at for what is regarded as a tier 3 deck!

But taking the advice above - maybe it's time to build a tier 1 deck and just focus with that for a month or two?

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To be honest, reaching Rank 10 doesn't require a Tier 1 deck. If you understand what you are playing, and invest some time, Rank 10 shouldn't be a problem.

Tier 1 decks only make it easier.

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