hearthstone Omnislash's Witchwood Reveal: Chameleos

[Aleco 252]

 

Chameleos is the next card in a long line of exciting, powerful, and well designed Legendary minions from The Witchwood.

 

Revealed live on Omni/Stone is yet another exciting Legendary minion from The Witchwood. Between this card, Blackhowl Gun Turret, and Lady in White, the quality of design on the Legendary minions in this set is off the charts:

 

 

First things first, this card is going to be really good. The obvious benefit of Chameleos is that it will sit around and collect information on your opponent's hand, which is a tremendous value in and of itself. The other major benefit of Chameleos is that it is quite likely to eventually turn into a good card which has application against your opponent. Against control decks you might get an extra win condition out of Chameleos, and against aggro you might get a cheap minion to play to the board. As Firebat said on the Omni/Stone stream "it is pretty reasonable to assume that your opponents play good cards in their deck".

Chameleos might force some awkward scenarios where you may not want to play the powerful card the turn it becomes it in your hand, but I think that's an extremely fair price to pay for a card that already does so much on its own. My instincts say that Chameleos will be meta defining for Priests and a reason for the class to lean towards control decks.

Are you as excited to take Chameleos out for a spin as I am? Let us know in the comment section, and be sure to check out our Witchwood Hub for more info on the upcoming expansion.

[VaraTreledees 138]

I think we need to see this card in play before I make a final judgement.  My instincts are telling me exactly the opposite, but they are heavily colored by other similarish cards, mind visions, psionic probe, the shifting cards.  On one hand this is a lot better, on the other, still has all the draw backs.  Going to leave this one with a giant ?.

[Bozonik 94]

Mind Visions and Psionic Probe are 1 mana more expensive than this, and you don’t get to say ‘nah, that shield slam isn’t going to be doing much for me’ with them. Shifter Zerus and Shifting Scroll are completely random so are polling from a much weaker collection of cards.

Seems great to me. Admittedly on ladder you generally know what’s in your opponents deck after the first few turns but just learning that Tarim (or divine favour) is already in hand before later slamming down a righteous protector isn’t exactly bad, and that’s probably the worst deck to be facing with it. And sometimes you’ll spot tech cards that aren’t auto-includes. Against combo decks it’s amazing, ‘oh look, antonidas! Guess I’ll play Brann+Dirty Rat+Death this turn then...’

Edited March 30, 2018 by Bozonik

[Caldyrvan 377]

A really awkward thing.

Even if it might not win you games, this card is exactly why playing against priest is the worst experience.

[ThunderChanter 2]

Design wise I like this card. Practical use is another thing. Priest already has cards that give them a copy of their opponents,Most decks play the big impact cards when they draw them/asap so your chance to get a copy of it and be able to afford its cost dont seem that high, and if you see your opponent has a piece of a combo, then what? You still dont know if the have the rest and you can't pull the combo off yourself. As someone who plays mostly Mage, I could see this card giving my opponent a DK Jaina, but then what? I doubt they have anywhere near the same elemental synergy my deck is running. They get a piece of the quest combo? What are they suppose to do with a single piece, and how does that stop me?

[Caldyrvan 377]

I think it's by far more important when they would go face to kill you in the following turn. But because they know you have a Jaina, which means you will get health from your elementals they choose to better get rid of your minions before they can generate health.

I think getting info about your opponents hand every turn plus remembering which you already saw and are still in their hand can be a huge advantage. But for that you have a card in your hand that is doing nothing else.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Caldyrvan

[Hanz39 53]

This card replaces Drakonid Operative ability to spy opponent cards and take the one you like most and play against him.

Yes you can't choose but you simply hold it until you hit a profitable target and until that time you get info about your enemy hand and it's already a great ability to have.

Drakonid Operative was probably the strongest card in his set for multiple reasons this one will be an auto-include in any priest deck since has no restritcion to Dragon decks.

Should be also noted that has the potential to win a game alone if you copy something like a mage quest completed, a hero card or a removal you need or a face damage to kill an opponent.

[Bozonik 94]

27 minutes ago, Caldyrvan said:

I think getting info about your opponents hand every turn plus remembering which you already saw and are still in their hand can be a huge advantage. But for that you have a card in your hand that is doing nothing else.

Yes, I think it’s strength comes from the information you get primarily. In the right deck that’s worth having a card sitting in your hand for a while. Any high mana card sits in your hand for a while if you draw it early, it doesn’t make the card unplayable. Obviously at some point you’ll play it, but deciding when to and using the info you gather from it well is the skill testing part.

What it also has on the other cards you can use to steal cards (now that drak op leaves standard) is that it doesn’t cost you tempo to do so.

[VaraTreledees 138]

I have put some more thought into this, and I will change my opinion from ? > bad.  While it is true that your opponent will be playing good cards, a lot of decks run off of internal synergies.  This means that a lot of there cards are going to be worse, and in some cases spectacularly worse, for you then your opponent.  The expected outcome of this card should be worse for your then your opponent, and in general will be worse for you then putting in another card in your deck that synergizes with your strategy (Also there is a far less likely chance that you will get something really good from it like frost lich or guldan because they will probably play it as soon as they are able too, so you have only 1 turn to maybe get it).  There is value in the information you gain from your opponent.  But there is also a limit to how far this information can go. For one, the information is randomly fed to you, and second, it is incomplete, which means its overall value can be highly misleading, or generally less useful then you might expect (the warlock has twisting so you play out two or three lower value minions only to have them die to a hellfire that you didn't see, etc).  On top of that, as a top deck vs an aggressive deck, it is entirely possible that this is just a 1 mana 1/1.  

[Caldyrvan 377]

Different view points here, interesting. Just thinking about the last 1 Mana 1/1 Legend they gave us ...

[Guest]

14 hours ago, ThunderChanter said:

Design wise I like this card. Practical use is another thing. Priest already has cards that give them a copy of their opponents,Most decks play the big impact cards when they draw them/asap so your chance to get a copy of it and be able to afford its cost dont seem that high, and if you see your opponent has a piece of a combo, then what? You still dont know if the have the rest and you can't pull the combo off yourself. As someone who plays mostly Mage, I could see this card giving my opponent a DK Jaina, but then what? I doubt they have anywhere near the same elemental synergy my deck is running. They get a piece of the quest combo? What are they suppose to do with a single piece, and how does that stop me?

IMO you didn't quite get the whole possibilites of this card.
You don't learn 1 card of the opponent - you learn 1 card EACH ROUND. And one he has on his hand. Which is a hundred times more important then knowing what he has in his deck.
There are quite some priest decks that don't focus on playing tons of cards early on.
Let's imagine you start with this card on your hand.
You hold it for 4-5 rounds -> obviously it is random which cards of the enemy hand is revealed. Chances are that you get the same card twice. And there is the chance that the opponent plays a card you knew he had in his hand.
Nevertheless, chances are very high that on turn 5 you know at least 2, ,maybe 3 cards your opponent is holding.
That is HUGE.
Knowing around 50% of the opponent cards?
How would you play poker with knowledge like that? If you know in Texas Hold Em 1 one his 2 cards?
That should increase your odds for winning dramatically.
And there is absolutly NOTHING the opponent can do against it. (Well, Dirty Rat - but only if the Card is a minion this turn, which isn't even sure.)

For a class that relies on playing much cards from the start this card would have a nice benefit if knowing the enemie cards - but a huge drawback, because to learn about the enemy you have to keep this in your hand. Making it a dead card.
But for Priest? Who sits on a hand full of cards? Where is the drawback in this card? Holding 6 playable cards instead of 7 (and in case of emergeny you CAN play it) but knowing half of the opponents hand?
Sign me up.

For Priest the card seems totally broken to me. It reveals way too much about your opponent and the cost for this information is next to nothing.

[Caldyrvan 377]

16 hours ago, Caldyrvan said:

A really awkward thing.

Even if it might not win you games, this card is exactly why playing against priest is the worst experience.

Sorry, I have to quote myself, also it is a (possibly) strong legend and your opponent has no way (unless they play priest too and use this or similar cards like Mind Vision) to know that. It's not enough that you have an advantage that your opponent can't interact with, they don't even know it.

The Quests have shown (imo) that a card that your opponent can't interact with, they can just watch you complete the quest, is bad. And this one might turn out to be even worse plus you might lose a game not even knowing why.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Caldyrvan

[ThunderChanter 2]

2 hours ago, WedgeAntilles said:

IMO you didn't quite get the whole possibilites of this card.
You don't learn 1 card of the opponent - you learn 1 card EACH ROUND. And one he has on his hand. Which is a hundred times more important then knowing what he has in his deck.
There are quite some priest decks that don't focus on playing tons of cards early on.
Let's imagine you start with this card on your hand.
You hold it for 4-5 rounds -> obviously it is random which cards of the enemy hand is revealed. Chances are that you get the same card twice. And there is the chance that the opponent plays a card you knew he had in his hand.
Nevertheless, chances are very high that on turn 5 you know at least 2, ,maybe 3 cards your opponent is holding.
That is HUGE.
Knowing around 50% of the opponent cards?
How would you play poker with knowledge like that? If you know in Texas Hold Em 1 one his 2 cards?
That should increase your odds for winning dramatically.
And there is absolutly NOTHING the opponent can do against it. (Well, Dirty Rat - but only if the Card is a minion this turn, which isn't even sure.)

For a class that relies on playing much cards from the start this card would have a nice benefit if knowing the enemie cards - but a huge drawback, because to learn about the enemy you have to keep this in your hand. Making it a dead card.
But for Priest? Who sits on a hand full of cards? Where is the drawback in this card? Holding 6 playable cards instead of 7 (and in case of emergeny you CAN play it) but knowing half of the opponents hand?
Sign me up.

For Priest the card seems totally broken to me. It reveals way too much about your opponent and the cost for this information is next to nothing.

The thing is you have no idea if that card is unique or not. You could get fireball one round, intellect another, and then fireball again. You have no idea if thats a second fireball,or the same as the first. Also, if there is a duplicate card in your opponents hand and they play one copy of it, and you act on thinking you know they no longer have that card in hand, you can get punished hard for that. On paper, if everything went in your favor, this card is great. In practice, I think its decent at best and a lost card slot for something more consistent at worse.

[Caldyrvan 377]

It's not bad, it just favors everyone with a very good read on their opponents deck, card in hand, cards played, skill etc.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, ThunderChanter said:

The thing is you have no idea if that card is unique or not. You could get fireball one round, intellect another, and then fireball again. You have no idea if thats a second fireball,or the same as the first. Also, if there is a duplicate card in your opponents hand and they play one copy of it, and you act on thinking you know they no longer have that card in hand, you can get punished hard for that. On paper, if everything went in your favor, this card is great. In practice, I think its decent at best and a lost card slot for something more consistent at worse.

Do you use Decktracker?
If yes, why? It doesn't give you every information about the enemy.
Generally spoken, do you play each Hearthstone game exactly the same? Do you totally ignore which class your opponent plays? And what cards your opponent played in the first turns?
If no, why do you adapt your playstyle? You don't know exactly what your oppoent has in his hand, do you?

Do you play Poker? If yes, do you adapt your play in the slightest to the plays your opponent does? If yes why? How he bets / folds... doesn't tell you exactly which cards he has now.

The point about information is: You don't need to know everything. The more information you have the better.
You can evolve your strategy.
Information will not give you a win in a specific game. But it will give you more wins if you play 100 games.

Sure, you can just play your own cards. In Poker as well as in Hearthstone. You will win some games. If you play a Tier 1 deck maybe even 40%.  And constantly cursing your bad luck. You never get to legend, because of bad luck. You never get 12 wins in Arena - because of bad luck. You will never be the one on the Pokertable who wins the big pot. Because of bad luck.
Or you can take everything you can possibly know about your opponents into consideration.
And start to increase the percentage of the games you win.

Just ask yourself: Why are the top players not totally random guys each month? Because the top players are ALWAYS lucky? The whole years?

No? Well, then there maybe some more to winning then just playing your cards.

And I have no doubt that learning more about the cards your opponent holds is invaluable.
Not in every single game, sure.
But in a lot of them.

[ThunderChanter 2]

I'm not saying knowing information is bad. I'm saying knowing partial information that you can't verify is bad. The Rouge has a cold blood in hand? Okay, I only need to worry about an additional 2 or 4 damage. Oh wait, no, they had both cold blood hand. My opponent has a polymorph? Did they get it off the glyph they played or is it in their deck baseline? How many do I have to play around? This card hasnt shown me a weapon so that means the warrior doesnt have one oh wait yes he does. On paper the knowledge this card can give you is decent. In practice that knowledge isn't going to do much better then just knowing what most decks are running. Theres very little benefit to losing a spot in your deck to include this card when you can easily just tell what kind of deck your opponent is running a few turns in anyways. This card takes up a spot to maybe get a lucky copy, maybe tell you a card that you could have just as easily guessed your opponent had anyways, I'm not saying the knowledge this card may give you isn't useful. I'm saying its not worth a card slot when you could have a more impactful, more consistent card there to begin with. If you watch high ranked players talk about their plays, most of them can call what an opponents next move is just by knowing what the deck matches win conditions are and how the turn before hand went. Giving up a deck slot isn't worth inconsistent knowledge that an understanding of deck building, tempo, and win conditions gives you.

[Guest]

We'll see in a few weeks. You can then look back at this topic and see that you were wrong :D

[Migol 425]

Frankly I think this is amazing no matter how you slice it.

Against aggro?   Drop a imp/charge murloc/etc of your own and call it a day.   Buys you time to get defenses/healing.

Against other control?   INFORMATION.   Your opponent has Antonidas and at least one mana gnome?   Ok, probly a good time to use the Dirty Rats.     He has a Mind Control?   Probly shouldn't drop Ysera just yet.   Same with Board Wipes and similar.     Moreover, you get to Steal powerful game enders like Rin, the first disciple.