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Damien

[Archived] Survival Hunter 5.4

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Wellp, I tested it myself and it looks like using Snake Trap won't really be worthwhile, unless I'm mistaken... It's quite odd though, Blizzard has kind of hinted at it being useful this time around so I wasn't sure. Perhaps they scale a lot better at Level 90. I was testing it on my level 85.

A waste of two replies... xD

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On a boss that is manually pulled [or even suddenly activated (like Ultraxion)], do you think starting with tossing an Ice Trap (because of Lock and Load) on the target's location would be worthwhile? If of course you're quick enough to do it as the tank is pulling, and follow with the rest of your opening sequence?

I understand that there's a good chance Lock and Load would proc from your first Black Arrow relatively fast, while you're popping a few other abilities in your opener, but having the Lock and Load proc already up couldn't hurt right? If of course you did it right.

Edited by Blaze78

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On a boss that is manually pulled [or even suddenly activated (like Ultraxion)], do you think starting with tossing an Ice Trap (because of Lock and Load) on the target's location would be worthwhile? If of course you're quick enough to do it as the tank is pulling, and follow with the rest of your opening sequence?

I understand that there's a good chance Lock and Load would proc from your first Black Arrow relatively fast, while you're popping a few other abilities in your opener, but having the Lock and Load proc already up couldn't hurt right? If of course you did it right.

Thanks for this! I'll add it to the guide ;)

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So many things here that need to be cleared up and put to rest.

I read somewhere that the murder of crows talent can actually proc your vishanka proc... That being said even though you recommend it maybe you should try to confirm what I said is true and note it as a perk from the ability as well.

Yes. A Murder of Crows does proc Speaking of Rage from Vishanka. This is one of the reasons why it's a good idea to keep this ability on CD.

I'm not entirely sure if it's worth using, but I did see that Snake Trap got a pretty big buff for Mists and I hear it might be useful for AoE as Survival, or even other specializations (or at least when you've got a gcd available and not enough focus for Multi-Shot).

You can experiment or research it to find out if it is worth using, since I again am not sure.

AoE for Survival has not changed. Drop your Explosive Trap under the pack and spam the crap out of Multi-Shot to get your Serpent Spread up, rolling Cobra Shots to regen your focus. Ignore any LnL procs unless you are AoEing less than four mobs. If this is the case, use your free Explosive Shots as AoE by switching targets. Using Dire Beast in the mix for increased focus regen for more Multi-Shots is ok if that's something you want to do, but it's not really an issue as you should be rolling Cobra Shots to keep your focus going for Multi-Shots and should NEVER use a focus challenged global for ANYTHING other than dropping another Explosive Trap, but that's only if it's off cooldown. This advice is disregarding both Barrage and Glaive Toss as AoE abilities. Their damage at the moment is negligible, both have a cooldown and are so focus heavy, it's not really worth using them unless you have a main target.

On a boss that is manually pulled [or even suddenly activated (like Ultraxion)], do you think starting with tossing an Ice Trap (because of Lock and Load) on the target's location would be worthwhile? If of course you're quick enough to do it as the tank is pulling, and follow with the rest of your opening sequence?

I understand that there's a good chance Lock and Load would proc from your first Black Arrow relatively fast, while you're popping a few other abilities in your opener, but having the Lock and Load proc already up couldn't hurt right? If of course you did it right.

There is absolutely no reason for you to use ANY other trap on a bossfight other than Explosive Trap even at lvl 90. And even then you don't want to use it unless you can pre-drop the trap onto a location where the boss is GOING to be tanked AT LEAST 30 seconds BEFORE it is even pulled. You should NEVER forsake Black Arrow for Explosive Trap on a single target fight.

Forget using traps on Ultraxion because you're fighting a boss who's airborne. i.e. FLYING. Your taps - ANY traps - won't trigger. You should know this already.

Raid Bosses themselves are immune to the effects of Ice Trap, though their adds are not. Yes, they will proc an early LnL, but honestly, you're far better off to follow your standard rotation with Dire Beast and A Murder of Crows tacked on at the end, then blow Readiness when your first Rapid Fire is finished and do it all over again.

As I stated in an earlier post, NONE of the new talented abilities are macroable as they ALL currently share the GCD. To make this even more annoying is that they have different cooldown times which makes managing them and keeping them on CD (which is what you want to do) very, very challenging and in my opinion more of an annoyance than anything else despite how much they can and do boost your dps. You currently have no choice but to keybind them. No clicking PLEASE!!!

They have fixed aspects on the beta in such that they are no longer on the global as promised and so you will able to use your old aspect dancing macros. We can only hope that they also make this or a similar change to talented abilities. Otherwise you're going to have to treat these cooldowns like "shots", find a way to weave them into your rotation when they are coming off cooldown and manually manage them.

So very inefficient and so very, very annoying.

Of course all this will change once you get to lvl 88 or so when you start to drop your t13 2pc bonus.

Hope this helped.

Edited by Raynewyn

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So many things here that need to be cleared up and put to rest.

Yes. A Murder of Crows does proc Speaking of Rage from Vishanka. This is one of the reasons why it's a good idea to keep this ability on CD.

AoE for Survival has not changed. Drop your Explosive Trap under the pack and spam the crap out of Multi-Shot to get your Serpent Spread up, rolling Cobra Shots to regen your focus. Ignore any LnL procs unless you are AoEing less than four mobs. If this is the case, use your free Explosive Shots as AoE by switching targets. Using Dire Beast in the mix for increased focus regen for more Multi-Shots is ok if that's something you want to do, but it's not really an issue as you should be rolling Cobra Shots to keep your focus going for Multi-Shots and should NEVER use a focus challenged global for ANYTHING other than dropping another Explosive Trap, but that's only if it's off cooldown. This advice is disregarding both Barrage and Glaive Toss as AoE abilities. Their damage at the moment is negligible, both have a cooldown and are so focus heavy, it's not really worth using them unless you have a main target.

There is absolutely no reason for you to use ANY other trap on a bossfight other than Explosive Trap even at lvl 90. And even then you don't want to use it unless you can pre-drop the trap onto a location where the boss is GOING to be tanked AT LEAST 30 seconds BEFORE it is even pulled. You should NEVER forsake Black Arrow for Explosive Trap on a single target fight.

Forget using traps on Ultraxion because you're fighting a boss who's airborne. i.e. FLYING. Your taps - ANY traps - won't trigger. You should know this already.

Raid Bosses themselves are immune to the effects of Ice Trap, though their adds are not. Yes, they will proc an early LnL, but honestly, you're far better off to follow your standard rotation with Dire Beast and A Murder of Crows tacked on at the end, then blow Readiness when your first Rapid Fire is finished and do it all over again.

As I stated in an earlier post, NONE of the new talented abilities are macroable as they ALL currently share the GCD. To make this even more annoying is that they have different cooldown times which makes managing them and keeping them on CD (which is what you want to do) very, very challenging and in my opinion more of an annoyance than anything else despite how much they can and do boost your dps. You currently have no choice but to keybind them. No clicking PLEASE!!!

They have fixed aspects on the beta in such that they are no longer on the global as promised and so you will able to use your old aspect dancing macros. We can only hope that they also make this or a similar change to talented abilities. Otherwise you're going to have to treat these cooldowns like "shots", find a way to weave them into your rotation when they are coming off cooldown and manually manage them.

So very inefficient and so very, very annoying.

Of course all this will change once you get to lvl 88 or so when you start to drop your t13 2pc bonus.

Hope this helped.

Obviously, I agree with your post on most points. I do however not understand why you would consider an instant, free Lock and Load at the start of the fight to be of no use. Yes, bosses aren't affected by the slow, but the triggering of the Ice Trap still procs Lock and Load. It's a very minor benefit, but still, it's something you can do in the pre-pull.

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Obviously, I agree with your post on most points. I do however not understand why you would consider an instant, free Lock and Load at the start of the fight to be of no use. Yes, bosses aren't affected by the slow, but the triggering of the Ice Trap still procs Lock and Load. It's a very minor benefit, but still, it's something you can do in the pre-pull.

I agree, it is a minor benefit and something you can do if you want to, but why would you? The initial burst from the forced LnL is insignificant compared to the amount of damage you will do if you are not delaying (for three seconds!) getting your Serpent Sting and Black Arrow ticking as well as laying out the bulk of your initial rotation. Plus, is it not better to use an Explosive Trap which is actually doing DAMAGE and can proc ADDITIONAL LnL procs instead of just one? And why would you use an Explosive Trap over Black Arrow which does more damage on a single target? This brings me back to my previous comment about Explosive Trap and Black Arrow and their correct uses and applications.

There is absolutely no reason for you to use ANY other trap on a bossfight other than Explosive Trap even at lvl 90. And even then you don't want to use it unless you can pre-drop the trap onto a location where the boss is GOING to be tanked AT LEAST 30 seconds BEFORE it is even pulled. You should NEVER forsake Black Arrow for Explosive Trap on a single target fight.

Just use Ice Trap for slows and CC when you need to. In most cases, you're going to get a LnL proc within a matter of seconds anyway and there is really no need to go "fishing" for one with Ice Trap. There are far better ways of getting LnL procs than this.

Edited by Raynewyn

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I agree, it is a minor benefit and something you can do if you want to, but why would you? The initial burst from the forced LnL is insignificant compared to the amount of damage you will do if you are not delaying (for three seconds!) getting your Serpent Sting and Black Arrow ticking as well as laying out the bulk of your initial rotation. Plus, is it not better to use an Explosive Trap which is actually doing DAMAGE and can proc ADDITIONAL LnL procs instead of just one? And why would you use an Explosive Trap over Black Arrow which does more damage on a single target? This brings me back to my previous comment about Explosive Trap and Black Arrow and their correct uses and applications.

It's a very minor benefit, yes. But that's why you would do it, because it's a benefit (however minor). I don't see what Explosive Trap has to do with this since it doesn't share a cooldown with Ice Trap. You lose absolutely nothing by pre-placing an Ice Trap. If casting all your cooldowns at the start means you'd have gotten a Lock and Load proc from Black Arrow already, then you didn't gain anything from the Ice Trap, but you also didn't lose anything either.

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Very little time for posters that say things like "You should NEVER forsake Black Arrow for Explosive Trap on a single target fight" but provide no evidence in terms of log parses or similar.

Simply saying it doesn't make it so and I would advise people to make their own minds up about things like this based on data, not baseless statements of opinion.

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Black Arrow Explosive Trap Hmmm... I wonder which one will do more damage?

It's not a "baseless statement of opinion", it's reading my tooltips, having a basic understanding of mathematics, intimate knowledge of game fight mechanics and my role when approaching it and a deep understanding of my class and abilities and how they work after having played it almost exclusively for nearly five years. This also includes knowing when to use another tactic and ignore what is considered "standard", but this is situational and so has little bearing on this discussion.

Besides, my discussion with Vlad and the previous posters has less to do with Black Arrow and Explosive Trap and more to do with the benefit or lack thereof of forcing an early LnL proc with Ice Trap.

Thank you, come again Posted Image

Edited by Raynewyn

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Guest Rusty

Dropping Ice Trap and getting a LnL straight away can be useful, although its very situational. On Spine you can drop an Ice Trap on the Bloods just before the Tendon to make sure you have 3 Explosive Shots straight away if you haven't saved your LnL already which could be a big dps boost on the tendon especially with all your cooldowns up.

If you drop Explosive Trap 18 seconds before the encounter starts, Black Arrow is up at the start of combat which is what people were referring to. On Heroic Morchok for example you can drop it on the spot that he lands after the split.

Both these techniques would be used in situations when it really counts (progression), right now its sort of irrelevant.

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Dropping Ice Trap and getting a LnL straight away can be useful, although its very situational. On Spine you can drop an Ice Trap on the Bloods just before the Tendon to make sure you have 3 Explosive Shots straight away if you haven't saved your LnL already which could be a big dps boost on the tendon especially with all your cooldowns up.

If you drop Explosive Trap 18 seconds before the encounter starts, Black Arrow is up at the start of combat which is what people were referring to. On Heroic Morchok for example you can drop it on the spot that he lands after the split.

Both these techniques would be used in situations when it really counts (progression), right now its sort of irrelevant.

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Guest saisbo

Make sence to me. one question though am i the only one who experienced an almost 8 k drop in my dps???

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Then why do it?

Because it can "maybe" be a benefit :)

Anyway, I think we're splitting hairs here. I wasn't arguing with you in a hostile manner or anything. I think you're right ultimately. Personally, I don't make it a habit to place Ice Traps before each fight, just in case it helps.

And I can't think of any reason to not use Black Arrow on a single target :)

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Guest Keoke

You said that you would fix the DPS Cooldown Macro. But now when I go to that page the Macro is gone completely with nothing replacing it. Taking it away completely doesn't help anyone with an alternative to this error. Does anyone have idea of the best way to fix this? the only thing i can think of is using the macro you had before but taking out Dire Beast. Then just spamming Dire Beast on CD kinda like you would Kill Command as BM when it falls off CD and just having DB not macro'd to anything.

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You said that you would fix the DPS Cooldown Macro. But now when I go to that page the Macro is gone completely with nothing replacing it. Taking it away completely doesn't help anyone with an alternative to this error. Does anyone have idea of the best way to fix this? the only thing i can think of is using the macro you had before but taking out Dire Beast. Then just spamming Dire Beast on CD kinda like you would Kill Command as BM when it falls off CD and just having DB not macro'd to anything.

I thought it was quite well covered in this thread why I chose not to suggest any macro at all. But to re-state the issue, the problem is not just that Dire Beast is on the global cooldown, but so are A Murder of Crows and Stampede. So is Blink Strike and Lynx Rush, by the way.

So, if we take those out, the "DPS Cooldowns Macro" turns out to be just Rapid Fire, for Survival, and Rapid Fire + Bestial Wrath for Beast Mastery. You are just better off casting your spells manually.

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I may be wrong but to my understanding LNL Procs off the EFFECT of Freezing trap. Not the Trigger of Freezing trap. and since Bosses are Immune to the EFFECT of freezing trap wouldn't that make it NOT proc LNL? I've personally tested on Spine for a free LNL with Freezing and LNL WAS NOT triggered because the adds on Spine are not effected. in any case... lets say the Bosses ARE Effected by Freezing trap. if you're going to pre-place freezing trap why not use Freezing and Explosive? especially to pre-pull. So you can have the Immediate LNL and the later onces from Explosive and if set 18 sec before pull you'll also benefit from BA on the target as well.

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And also for a Macro you could use something to this affect.

For Survival

/cast Rapid Fire

/use 13

/use 14

/cast A Murder of Crows

For BM

/cast Bestial Wrath

/use 13

/use 14

/cast A Murder of Crows

Reason i didn't put Rapid Fire in BM macro is because unless i'm again mistaken Rapid fire and Bestial Wrath at the same time is a DPS loss.

But A murder of Crows is Effected by Bestial Wrath.

Obviously the Uses are for trinkets if you have a on use trinket. But with these macros and everything being able to be used at the same time that saves you from 1 if not 2 GCD's

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Guest Epsilon

This is the castsequence macro I am using for my abilities:

/castsequence reset=combat/target/5 Dire Beast, A Murder of Crows, Rapid Fire

/cast Rapid Fire

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Guest Nitewatcher

Further to the above, even a simplified macro (for SRV Hunters):

/cast Rapid Fire

/cast Dire Beast

/cast A Murder of Crows

Does not appear to work.

Doing some testing shows the following:

1.

/cast Rapid Fire

/cast Dire Beast

/cast A Murder of Crows

Result:

Rapid Fire = PASS

Dire Beast = PASS

A Murder of Crows = FAIL

2.

/cast Rapid Fire

/cast A Murder of Crows

/cast Dire Beast

Result:

Rapid Fire = PASS

A Murder of Crows = PASS

Dire Beast = FAIL

3.

/cast Dire Beast

/cast A Murder of Crows

Result:

Dire Beast = PASS

A Murder of Crows = FAIL

4.

/cast A Murder of Crows

/cast Dire Beast

Result:

A Murder of Crows = PASS

Dire Beast = FAIL

5.

/cast A Murder of Crows

/cast Rapid Fire

Result:

A Murder of Crows = PASS

Rapid Fire = FAIL

6.

/cast Rapid Fire

/cast A Murder of Crows

Result:

Rapid Fire = PASS

A Murder of Crows = PASS

7.

/cast Rapid Fire

/cast Dire Beast

Result:

Rapid Fire = PASS

Dire Beast = PASS

8.

/cast Dire Beast

/cast A Murder of Crows

Result:

Dire Beast = PASS

A Murder of Crows = FAIL

If anyone can explain why this very simple three cast macro fails, and suggest a fix, it would be much appreciated!

Because the macros are made so you don't change them when you switch talents.

For example you can't have lynx rush and murder of crows at the same time (they are the same tier talents, so you can have only 1)

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Guest André

I was taking a look over the optmizing table on Mr.Robot and it suggests me to put a Pirmal Leg Reinforcement(rank2) on my gear, but I already have it, since it just need to apply once and it will improve with the LW levels.

Seems that Mr.Robot didnt reconize that the enchant "evolve" by itself. lol

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Concerning macros, there is a VERY simple way to test whether they will work or not. First of all, go write you macro. Then go to a target dummy and test it. If it works as you intended, all well and good. If it does not, there is only one of two reasons:

1. You have made a text or syntax error when writing your macro. Go back and check your spelling, spacing and symbols (i.e [ ] / ; ). It can be the simplest mistake that will stop a good macro from working so be thorough and precise when writing them.

2. The abilities that you are trying to macro to fire together share a Global. If this is the case, there is very little you can do other than to use a /castsequence macro.

The easiest way to test if abilities share a Global Cooldown is to go to a target dummy and roll Cobra Shot or Steady Shot with your Spellbook open. If the firing of CS or SS also triggers the swirly on the ability or abilities you have your eye on, then it's fairly safe to assume that those abilities share a global and thus cannot be macrod together to function the way we'd like. However, if you want to be sure, fire one ability while looking at the other or others. I'll edit this post later with some examples.

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Guest Nite

I don't agree with dire beast being stronger than thrill of the hunt. You forget that TotH also provides AoE burst, which can come very handy

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