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[Archived] Survival Hunter 5.4

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Guest Shattarathi

Wondering if anyone has tried it but using the 2peice set bonus(teir 16) with Thirll of the hunt vs using Dire Beast

I advise all surv hunters at this point to use TotH at that point, yes. The reason you stop using it, at least in my mind, once you get the 4pc, is because at that point you simply have too many procs (LnL procs w/ 4pc and TotH procs) and simply have far too much focus/wasted procs. Before that, during the 2-3pc phase, the Thrill of the Hunt procs are fairly good for conserving focus and allowing you optimal dps. Could be wrong, sorry for the month or so of not replying, but yeah. 

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I advise all surv hunters at this point to use TotH at that point, yes. The reason you stop using it, at least in my mind, once you get the 4pc, is because at that point you simply have too many procs (LnL procs w/ 4pc and TotH procs) and simply have far too much focus/wasted procs. Before that, during the 2-3pc phase, the Thrill of the Hunt procs are fairly good for conserving focus and allowing you optimal dps. Could be wrong, sorry for the month or so of not replying, but yeah.

TotH is too random of a proc, and what I've found is that I'm using very few arcane shots as SV anyways (compared to when I raid as BM). Dire beast is much better as it provides a small amount of damage as well as focus regen.

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TotH is too random of a proc, and what I've found is that I'm using very few arcane shots as SV anyways (compared to when I raid as BM). Dire beast is much better as it provides a small amount of damage as well as focus regen.

Yeah, but you're missing the qualifier to this reply.  Your hunter doesn't have even the 2pc yet, so you aren't dealing with AS out the yin-yang.  I absolutely agree that for the 2pc, TotH is an amazing companion, but once you get the 4pc and you realize that ES has SOOO much higher of a shot priority, you go with Fervor.  Fervor has the same CD as DB, but the pet may lose uptime traveling from target to target, which is always a downside on non-single target fights.  Additionally, I don't believe DB will give you a full 100 focus, and even if it does, it's not going to give half of it in the burst like Fervor will, or in the shortened time frame.

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 TotH is an amazing companion, but once you get the 4pc and you realize that ES has SOOO much higher of a shot priority, you go with Fervor. 

ES should ALWAYS have a higher shot priority. The 4pc just makes it more godly.

 

It really depends on the fight and what is needed more, aoe or single target. TotH does proc consistently and that my bother some people. Over time you can get used to it, ignore it and use the proc on a needed basis. TotH is great for fights that have a consistent need to aoe. Fervor is great for fights that have random add phases. Dire beast is great for fights with a single target so the summoned pet can sit and chomp the boss without having to run around.

 

They can also fill different focus needs. If you need to burst something down very fast, fervor can help with that. If you need constant small influxes of focus choose dire beast. TotH can assist with both of those situations.

 

Hunters are lucky in that we have options to choose from when it comes to finding talents that fight our playstyles and whatever fight we are currently on. I used to hate TotH and adore Fervor. A hunter friend convinced me to try it out, and I have to see it does do a great job providing more focus on heavy aoe fights then Fervor. I find that I can multishot more without having to shoot off as many cobra shots while waiting on Fervor to come off cd.

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ES should ALWAYS have a higher shot priority. The 4pc just makes it more godly.

 

It really depends on the fight and what is needed more, aoe or single target. TotH does proc consistently and that my bother some people. Over time you can get used to it, ignore it and use the proc on a needed basis. TotH is great for fights that have a consistent need to aoe. Fervor is great for fights that have random add phases. Dire beast is great for fights with a single target so the summoned pet can sit and chomp the boss without having to run around.

 

They can also fill different focus needs. If you need to burst something down very fast, fervor can help with that. If you need constant small influxes of focus choose dire beast. TotH can assist with both of those situations.

 

Hunters are lucky in that we have options to choose from when it comes to finding talents that fight our playstyles and whatever fight we are currently on. I used to hate TotH and adore Fervor. A hunter friend convinced me to try it out, and I have to see it does do a great job providing more focus on heavy aoe fights then Fervor. I find that I can multishot more without having to shoot off as many cobra shots while waiting on Fervor to come off cd.

Fair enough. I just got my 2-piece yesterday morning (along with a trinket and helm all from flex 2), and after that I started a dk, so I haven't had any time to look at which talent will be "better" fight by fight.

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So, I'm hoping to appeal to the community of SV hunters here.  I'm struggling.  I read forums, I keep up with the changes that come to the class and spec, and I"m always looking at what it is that the higher tiered players are doing...but I'm absolutely stuck.

 

I'm including some logs and my armory.  I look at my dps and performance and compare it to other hunters of similar ilvls on the same fights, and they often have similar percentages of damage for each of their abilities - so this makes me think I've got my rotation and shot priority down pretty well - but they are sometimes doing double my dps and damage.  This is very frustrating.  I don't know if there's some crucial piece of information I'm missing, a bunch of little things I'm not doing that I should be that are holding me back, or if there's an addon that everyone knows about that I'm oblivious to that is sky rocket-ing their dps.  It worries me that I honestly feel like I'm out of ideas, but I'm still in the lowest tier of 

I thought I could solve this issue on my own, but I can't stand constantly being at the bottom of my raid's meters (despite that I'm not really falling behind - I generally hang with the pack, just at the rear), and I know more output over the course of a fight could have saved us a wipe several times; in the back of my head, I kick myself for it and I want desperately to figure out what's going on.  I know that I make myself useful for utility, soaking, kiting, and CC as much as possible, but this is ridiculous!  Hopefully you guys can provide me with some constructive insight (please, keep it constructive, though).

 

Most recent logs:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qcbfWDtkRM39mPTZ  (I sat for Immerseus, and I don't know why our RL didn't get Protectors recorded, but this is what we have from last night.)

 

My armory:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/chogall/Kirij%C3%B6lith/simple

 

My ePeen bot:

http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/cho'gall/kirij%C3%B6lith/

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Guest NumberRed

To start off the post, I'd like to mention that I'm by no means a pro SV hunter, or WoW player. This is just what I see/hear and what might help you out. 

 

Looking at your logs, I noticed the fairly low up-time of your BA and SS. Most logs I see have an up-time of at least 90%+ on both BA and SS, and on that Iron Juggernaut fight your up-time on these DoTs was ~75%. A higher up-time on BA and SS means more damage, and through BA more Lock-n-Load procs, which will most likely increase your DPS if you're not already spamming ES like crazy.

Also, looking at your professions, I think it'll be worth it to drop Skinning for Engineering, because ~2000 agility for 10 seconds every minute should benefit you more than the passive 320 (?) crit rating you gain from Skinning.

 

These are just my observations/tips. Again, I'm no pro, and I hope this post will help you, even if it's ever so slightly. Also, non-native English writer, so if my sentences are weird, please forgive me.

 

 

 

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(Sorry admins if still will be a double post, I posted this before registering and I didn't see my post appear, so I figured I'd made an account to be sure that it'd come through)

 

To start off the post, I'd like to mention that I'm by no means a pro SV hunter, or WoW player. This is just what I see/hear and what might help you out. 

 

Looking at your logs, I noticed the fairly low up-time of your BA and SS. Most logs I see have an up-time of at least 90%+ on both BA and SS, and on that Iron Juggernaut fight your up-time on these DoTs was ~75%. A higher up-time on BA and SS means more damage, and through BA more Lock-n-Load procs, which will most likely increase your DPS if you're not already spamming ES like crazy.

Also, looking at your professions, I think it'll be worth it to drop Skinning for Engineering, because ~2000 agility for 10 seconds every minute should benefit you more than the passive 320 (?) crit rating you gain from Skinning.

 

These are just my observations/tips. Again, I'm no pro, and I hope this post will help you, even if it's ever so slightly. Also, non-native English writer, so if my sentences are weird, please forgive me.

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(Sorry admins if still will be a double post, I posted this before registering and I didn't see my post appear, so I figured I'd made an account to be sure that it'd come through)

 

To start off the post, I'd like to mention that I'm by no means a pro SV hunter, or WoW player. This is just what I see/hear and what might help you out. 

 

Looking at your logs, I noticed the fairly low up-time of your BA and SS. Most logs I see have an up-time of at least 90%+ on both BA and SS, and on that Iron Juggernaut fight your up-time on these DoTs was ~75%. A higher up-time on BA and SS means more damage, and through BA more Lock-n-Load procs, which will most likely increase your DPS if you're not already spamming ES like crazy.

Also, looking at your professions, I think it'll be worth it to drop Skinning for Engineering, because ~2000 agility for 10 seconds every minute should benefit you more than the passive 320 (?) crit rating you gain from Skinning.

 

These are just my observations/tips. Again, I'm no pro, and I hope this post will help you, even if it's ever so slightly. Also, non-native English writer, so if my sentences are weird, please forgive me.

 

I've considered trading for Engineering, and I may still, especially picking up PvP like I have been.  But the reason for the low up-times on Iron Juggernaut is because my raid group utilizes the hands-off strat for heroic.  Mortar Barrage goes out constantly during the siege mode on heroic and makes it nearly impossible (borderline suicidal) to DPS him during this phase.  So, essentially the entire raid was completely out of range of the boss (you can see this by clicking the 'replay' tab at the far right) for a total of 120 of the 414 seconds we spent on that pull.  That amounts to exactly 71% up-time on the boss.  Though the Shock Pulse doesn't knock us out of range for about 10-15 seconds, and I do try to reapply everything (BA, SS, AMoC) before I'm out of range, I think my effective up-time and the total up-time of BA and SS adjust well when factoring in the heroic mechanic.  

 

Additionally, I would like to point out that I am the primary rDPS spotter for crawler mines in my group (we have a rogue who grabs one in melee range, if ever needed).  So, if ever there's a 3rd mine our tanks can't get to, I pop deterrence and jump on it for them.  This is almost guaranteed to happen at least once every assault phase, effectively taking me out of the fight for 8 seconds (plus whatever time I spend more worried about running and ensuring we don't get decimated instead of caring about my rotation).

Edited by SeanIrvin

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Guest Asuryan

What I'm always wondering about is the part of the guide under 5.4. Lock and Load Procs

 

 

Whenever you get a Lock and Load proc, you should simply fire the Explosive Shots one after the other.

 

Isn't that dependent on your distance to the boss and the number of ES you did before? I did some testing and you can see it in SeanIrvins log, too. An explosive shot has two dot-ticks per shot but if you are too close to the boss and have an "extra tick" of ES - you might loose a tick. Can you disregard this tick or would it be better to squeez an Arcane Shot in between your second and third ES? Sorry if that was already discussed or something.

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What I'm always wondering about is the part of the guide under 5.4. Lock and Load Procs

 

 

Isn't that dependent on your distance to the boss and the number of ES you did before? I did some testing and you can see it in SeanIrvins log, too. An explosive shot has two dot-ticks per shot but if you are too close to the boss and have an "extra tick" of ES - you might loose a tick. Can you disregard this tick or would it be better to squeez an Arcane Shot in between your second and third ES? Sorry if that was already discussed or something.

Yes, depending on the distance that you have from the boss, meaning that if u fire the first explosive shot from far away and you start moving towards him, while shooting more of them, you will end up having less ticks. But this is irrelevant. Ever since MoP was launched, the explosive shot system was changed, becoming the same as the fire mage ignite. That means that even if you overlap your explosive shots, and you get less ticks, the damage gets added on the dot and it just ticks for more damage. So even if u spam 10 explosive shots back to back, no damage will be lost.

 

tl;dr less ticks doesnt mean less damage

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Guest Daggumitt

I raid with another SV Hunter who has just about the same iLVL of gear as I do. On several fights in 10 man his pet doe’s way more damage than mine does. I mean a lot. About 4 mil more. I have tried to figure out why but can’t. I’m hoping someone can help me understand what the big difference is. Here’s the logs. Helzarow is the one with the pet that does a lot of damage, Daggumitts pet does way less damage. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tn4BNqfwm7V2rWRy#type=summary&fight=21

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I raid with another SV Hunter who has just about the same iLVL of gear as I do. On several fights in 10 man his pet doe’s way more damage than mine does. I mean a lot. About 4 mil more. I have tried to figure out why but can’t. I’m hoping someone can help me understand what the big difference is. Here’s the logs. Helzarow is the one with the pet that does a lot of damage, Daggumitts pet does way less damage. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tn4BNqfwm7V2rWRy#type=summary&fight=21

I think the biggest reason for the difference is his racial and profession perk. Mostly the Orc racial though. Blood fury and plus damage to pets.

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I raid with another SV Hunter who has just about the same iLVL of gear as I do. On several fights in 10 man his pet doe’s way more damage than mine does. I mean a lot. About 4 mil more. I have tried to figure out why but can’t. I’m hoping someone can help me understand what the big difference is. Here’s the logs. Helzarow is the one with the pet that does a lot of damage, Daggumitts pet does way less damage. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tn4BNqfwm7V2rWRy#type=summary&fight=21

Hey Daggumitt, the damage difference is mainly because of him using the Glyph of Stampede, and you aren't. That means that all the damage of the stampede is added on his one pet, while yours is spread amongst your other 4 pets.

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Hey Daggumitt, the damage difference is mainly because of him using the Glyph of Stampede, and you aren't. That means that all the damage of the stampede is added on his one pet, while yours is spread amongst your other 4 pets.

No, glyph of stampede doesn't affect damage dealt by pets.  Daggumitt's pets deal roughly the same combined % of his damage as Helzarow's pet (16.11% for Daggumitt vs 16.89% for Helzarow).  And actually, the difference in total pet damage is only 1 million damage, 11.43M vs 12.49, which is accounted for due to the orc racial increasing pet damage.  (note, this is just looking at Sha).

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Guest Daggumitt

I think the biggest reason for the difference is his racial and profession perk. Mostly the Orc racial though. Blood fury and plus damage to pets.

 

 

Hey Daggumitt, the damage difference is mainly because of him using the Glyph of Stampede, and you aren't. That means that all the damage of the stampede is added on his one pet, while yours is spread amongst your other 4 pets.

 

 

No, glyph of stampede doesn't affect damage dealt by pets.  Daggumitt's pets deal roughly the same combined % of his damage as Helzarow's pet (16.11% for Daggumitt vs 16.89% for Helzarow).  And actually, the difference in total pet damage is only 1 million damage, 11.43M vs 12.49, which is accounted for due to the orc racial increasing pet damage.  (note, this is just looking at Sha).

I'm going to give the glyph a shot tomorrow and see if that make the pet damage more equal between us. I’ll post the results.

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No, glyph of stampede doesn't affect damage dealt by pets.  Daggumitt's pets deal roughly the same combined % of his damage as Helzarow's pet (16.11% for Daggumitt vs 16.89% for Helzarow).  And actually, the difference in total pet damage is only 1 million damage, 11.43M vs 12.49, which is accounted for due to the orc racial increasing pet damage.  (note, this is just looking at Sha).

Yes, but I think the question was about the 4mil difference which he got because he didn't add the damage from the other 4 pets (which is almost 3 mil). 1mil damage difference isn't as bad, and can be explained with what you said :)

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Guest Daggumitt

I'm going to give the glyph a shot tomorrow and see if that make the pet damage more equal between us. I’ll post the results.

Well, looks like it was the Glyph after all. See below. As a Survival Hunter I didn’t realize our pet did that much damage even if it is with the Stampede cool down. All the more reason to squeeze it in as often as possible. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/r39QAvpPwaM6Lbfg#type=damage-done&fight=9

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Guest Jjsøn

My hunter is at 567 ilvl

Hi 2 Questions.

1st is there a point when i should stop going for Crit>Haste>Mastery(Single) / Crit>Mastery>Haste(Multi) and start reforging haste or mastery over crit as im over 50% crit now and don't get much time to Sim this wa swondering what other hunters are doing.

2nd is with the gearing up table am i to assume the bottom item is the BiS for each Slot as im also having a hard time finding a BiS list due to time constraints sad.png

 

 

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My hunter is at 567 ilvl

Hi 2 Questions.

1st is there a point when i should stop going for Crit>Haste>Mastery(Single) / Crit>Mastery>Haste(Multi) and start reforging haste or mastery over crit as im over 50% crit now and don't get much time to Sim this was wondering what other hunters are doing.

2nd is with the gearing up table am i to assume the bottom item is the BiS for each Slot as im also having a hard time finding a BiS list due to time constraints sad.png

The list is ordered by ilvl and then alphabetically, so not necessarily BiS ordered.  As for stats, I personally go haste (to comfort, around 25% for me) > crit > mastery > haste.

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Guest Greyfrog

Hi,

 

Sorry if this question has been asked before, but I was wondering about how the SoO trinket effects the priority of Black Arrow.  Before I got this trinket, Black Arrow would run out on my target before the cooldown was finished.  Now, my Black arrow is off CD again before the debuff has expired on the boss.  

 

Does the priority described still apply?  should I recast Black Arrow on every cooldown or should I save it until the old Black Arrow has fallen off?

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Hi,

 

Sorry if this question has been asked before, but I was wondering about how the SoO trinket effects the priority of Black Arrow.  Before I got this trinket, Black Arrow would run out on my target before the cooldown was finished.  Now, my Black arrow is off CD again before the debuff has expired on the boss.  

 

Does the priority described still apply?  should I recast Black Arrow on every cooldown or should I save it until the old Black Arrow has fallen off?

 

I just covered this question in the hunter forums in this topic https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/5509-4pc-t16-and-black-arrow-question/

 

Tldr: In general you would want to refresh it during the last second to make sure you don't lose out on a tick from it for the LnL procs. There are some more details in the thread.

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Guest Grubba

question for the masses.  If my survival hunter has the tier 4 set, what is the best talent to choose.  Would it be Thrill of the Hunt for the 2 set bonus which will get your rapid fire all the time or dire beast/Fervor for the extra focus?

 

i have been told that TotH is the way to go but most of the research says go with Fervor.  any thoughts?

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TotH or Fervor are the better options for that talent tier with the 4pc. It really comes down to play style, as I used TotH for awhile as SV, whereas now I'm more comfortable using fervor. I like fervor because you control when you get the extra focus, as opposed to TotH being random procs.

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