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Damien

[Archived] Survival Hunter 5.4

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I may be wrong but to my understanding LNL Procs off the EFFECT of Freezing trap. Not the Trigger of Freezing trap. and since Bosses are Immune to the EFFECT of freezing trap wouldn't that make it NOT proc LNL? I've personally tested on Spine for a free LNL with Freezing and LNL WAS NOT triggered because the adds on Spine are not effected. in any case... lets say the Bosses ARE Effected by Freezing trap. if you're going to pre-place freezing trap why not use Freezing and Explosive? especially to pre-pull. So you can have the Immediate LNL and the later onces from Explosive and if set 18 sec before pull you'll also benefit from BA on the target as well.

It does (or did) work on raid bosses. You can test it on the raid boss training dummy, too. The trap goes off, which is when you proc LnL. The dummy (and boss) is never actually slowed by the trap, though.

And yes, if you set down and Explosive Trap too, all the better, as long as you do it early enough that it doesn't interfere with your Black Arrow.

And also for a Macro you could use something to this affect.

For Survival

/cast Rapid Fire

/use 13

/use 14

/cast A Murder of Crows

For BM

/cast Bestial Wrath

/use 13

/use 14

/cast A Murder of Crows

Reason i didn't put Rapid Fire in BM macro is because unless i'm again mistaken Rapid fire and Bestial Wrath at the same time is a DPS loss.

But A murder of Crows is Effected by Bestial Wrath.

Obviously the Uses are for trinkets if you have a on use trinket. But with these macros and everything being able to be used at the same time that saves you from 1 if not 2 GCD's

Personally, I just wouldn't bother with macros for such small benefits. Macroing your trinkets into things may help, but I don't know what to say - I've raided progression on my hunters and I've never had the need to use macros to use all my abilities without wasting any time. And I actually enjoyed the control I have over things. The only thing I macroed was Synapse Springs :)

Concerning macros, there is a VERY simple way to test whether they will work or not. First of all, go write you macro. Then go to a target dummy and test it. If it works as you intended, all well and good. If it does not, there is only one of two reasons:

1. You have made a text or syntax error when writing your macro. Go back and check your spelling, spacing and symbols (i.e [ ] / ; ). It can be the simplest mistake that will stop a good macro from working so be thorough and precise when writing them.

2. The abilities that you are trying to macro to fire together share a Global. If this is the case, there is very little you can do other than to use a /castsequence macro.

The easiest way to test if abilities share a Global Cooldown is to go to a target dummy and roll Cobra Shot or Steady Shot with your Spellbook open. If the firing of CS or SS also triggers the swirly on the ability or abilities you have your eye on, then it's fairly safe to assume that those abilities share a global and thus cannot be macrod together to function the way we'd like. However, if you want to be sure, fire one ability while looking at the other or others. I'll edit this post later with some examples.

Thanks for this. You are of course, correct, but your post is most informative :)

I don't agree with dire beast being stronger than thrill of the hunt. You forget that TotH also provides AoE burst, which can come very handy

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But simulations clearly show Dire Beast outperforming Thrill of the Hunt. I did not forget that Thrill of the Hunt can improve AoE DPS, but this is generally a secondary consideration to single target DPS. I'll add a mention about how, if the AoE DPS in the fight is crucial, Thrill of the Hunt may be better. Thanks :)

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Guest André

Didnt see in the lit of buffs, but the Sporebat has the passive abilitie of the shadow priests, the 5% spell haste. Also, the Shale Spiders gives 5% in main atributes.

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Didnt see in the lit of buffs, but the Sporebat has the passive abilitie of the shadow priests, the 5% spell haste. Also, the Shale Spiders gives 5% in main atributes.

You are right on both counts. Thank you very much! We've added both of them to the relevant hunter guides (you won't see the Shape Spider buff on the Survival Hunter buff page since it's an exotic pet).

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Guest HunterNewb

Hi

I was just wondering.

For SV hunters , your opening rotation includes Glaive Toss yet the single target rotation does not.

is that intentional ?

cheers

( and thanks for the awesome site )

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AMR is telling me to reforge just under the cap. is this correct?

Yes, it is.

You can use this addon for reforge Posted Image

You can use it, but there should be little need to :)

Hi

I was just wondering.

For SV hunters , your opening rotation includes Glaive Toss yet the single target rotation does not.

is that intentional ?

cheers

( and thanks for the awesome site )

It is intentional, in the sense that we do not include talent abilities in the rotation part. The reason for this is that we would need to include all 3 options for every tier, and it would make the rotation seem very cluttered and not as easy to read. Accessibility and ease-of-understanding are some of our top concerns.

The opening rotation is not the only place where we mention using Glaive Toss, however. We also mention it in the Tier 6 Talents section :)

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You can use this addon for reforge Posted Image

Since this is a site for helping people, I feel the need to say this. http://wowreforge.com gives better reforges than reforgelite due to lua limitations. You can use wowreforge in tandem with Reforgerade for the convenience of reforgelite with the reforges of wowreforge. After setting your stat weights (default is what icy-veins suggests) and hitting optimize, hit summary and copy/paste that into reforgerade in-game then hit reforge. Edited by Tehstool

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Guest Keerah

Something importnant , if you do as the guide says for explosive shot you will lose 1 explosion! explosive/arcane/explosive/arcane is better. you will hve 6 counts instead of 5.

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Guest Enishi

Something importnant , if you do as the guide says for explosive shot you will lose 1 explosion! explosive/arcane/explosive/arcane is better. you will hve 6 counts instead of 5.

Wrong. now you don't lose dot damage by replacing a ES with a fresh ES. You can be right that recount show 8 hit instead of 9, but the last hit does double damage. Best way to LnL now is Ex- Ex- Ex (not focus capped)

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Yo. You need to change your BiS list it is way off. You have to have missed some gear when compiling this or something. A haste/mastery neck being better than crit/mastery? The bis neck is the one off of blade lord. BiS helm is the tier helm with the 516 shoulders being an offset piece. The H bottle of infinite stars is better than relic of xuen and H terror in the mists.

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Yo. You need to change your BiS list it is way off. You have to have missed some gear when compiling this or something. A haste/mastery neck being better than crit/mastery? The bis neck is the one off of blade lord. BiS helm is the tier helm with the 516 shoulders being an offset piece. The H bottle of infinite stars is better than relic of xuen and H terror in the mists.

Can you tell me what you are basing some off these claims on? I agree with the neck, and am making the change right now, and while I'm inclined to agree on the head, both Simcraft and Ask Mr. Robot believe that Relic of Xuen and Terror in the Mists are superior to Bottle, and that the tier shoulders are better than the off-set piece.

Thanks for the comment, and do let me know!

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Can you tell me what you are basing some off these claims on? I agree with the neck, and am making the change right now, and while I'm inclined to agree on the head, both Simcraft and Ask Mr. Robot believe that Relic of Xuen and Terror in the Mists are superior to Bottle, and that the tier shoulders are better than the off-set piece.

Thanks for the comment, and do let me know!

Well, since we are referencing simcraft, using simcraft it shows that changing from haste reforges to mastery reforges is about a 100 dps loss. Now, if you look at any of the fights that you go SV as, the more mastery you have the more damage you do simply because SrS benefits from mastery and not haste I.E stone guard, wind lord, etc.

You will be trading a 509 head with haste and crit with a 509 head with expertise and mastery, BUT you will also be trading 509 haste/expertise shoulders for 516 shoulders with more agility and crit/expertise. So effectively you are trading your haste for mastery and expertise while gaining crit (from the expertise) and agility. http://www.wowhead.c....0.0.76626&l=85

This is without reforges too. You'll be trading 228 crit and 1340 haste for 828 mastery and 676 expertise and 149 agility. Gaining expertise is only going to increase your crit rating. For example if I take the expertise enchant off i lose almost 170 crit. I can only imagine that on a bigger scale.

In regards to the bottle, it is very strong as it is with a ~40% uptime. While TiTM and RoX only give ~25%.

Edited by Tehstool

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Guest Guest

Surv is consistently coming in ahead of Beast in the past month or two. Should be changed. The encounters have so much AoE that Surv ends up more useful.

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Guest Pothos

You have Fur lining listed as yielding 330 bonus agility. It's 320, just the same as all the other professions. 500 (fur lining [LW Only]) - 180 (enchanting [everyone]) = 320.

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I think it should be noted that Glyph of Direction (minor glyph) causes your Misdirection to have no cooldown. I've noticed this since MoP came out.

Also, would the fact that the new meta-gem proc and the 4-set are affected by mastery bump mastery higher than haste in the stat priotities?

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Guest Ruckkus

Hey, great info, but you forgot Skinning as a Profession. Unlike Herbalism, it gives a flat and passive bonus of 480 to Crit, which is much better than having to push a button and wait for a cooldown.

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I think it should be noted that Glyph of Direction (minor glyph) causes your Misdirection to have no cooldown. I've noticed this since MoP came out.

Also, would the fact that the new meta-gem proc and the 4-set are affected by mastery bump mastery higher than haste in the stat priotities?

On the contrary. Their proc frequency is increased by haste thus boosting it and all the other real ppm items that aren't affected by mastery.

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I think it should be noted that Glyph of Direction (minor glyph) causes your Misdirection to have no cooldown. I've noticed this since MoP came out.

Also, would the fact that the new meta-gem proc and the 4-set are affected by mastery bump mastery higher than haste in the stat priotities?

On the contrary. Their proc frequency is increased by haste thus boosting it and all the other real ppm items that aren't affected by mastery.

He is actually right about mastery.

The T15 4 pieces bonus gives you additional magic damage.

Thus it increases the part of your magic damage and therefore the weight of mastery.

Critical value is unchanged because every ability you use has the same chance to do a critical hit.

For haste it is far little more complicated.

1% haste will give you 1% more focus. However if you want to spend this extra focus, it means that you will have to skip some CoS and it will costs you focus. Hence you will not be able to do 1% more AS / MS, and 1% haste will not increase the damage done by your proc by 1%. However you have to compare this value to the base dps increase for 1% haste without 4P T15, something that is based on your stuff / talents and so many things.

However as the buff will only account for something like 2-3% of your DPS, you should not worry about the changes in weights, they are not likely to change your stat priority.

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No he's not right. They are affected by mastery, yes, but mastery only increases the 4 piece and the meta while haste increases all of them (trinkets, set bonuses, meta).

Edited by Tehstool

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I was looking over this, and it appears that you might have misunderstood what I said. The equation of determining Real PPM items/set bonuses scales linearly and is directly modified by haste. The 4 piece is 3 Real PPM, that means regardless of how fast you are attacking/ability usage, on average, you'll get 3 procs a minute with 0% haste. With 1% haste that is now 3 * 1.01 = 3.03 Real PPM. With 50% haste, that is now 3 * 1.50 = 4.5 Real PPM.

With that being said, with my reforges I'd be trading 2k haste for 2k mastery if I were to reforge mastery > haste. That equates to a 4.7% loss in haste. So you are losing a 4.7% gain in proc rate for everything Real PPM oriented for 3.3% (repeating) gain in damage to the 4 piece and the meta.My 4 piece is hitting for 45k - 90k. So (3 Real PPM * 45k and 90k =) 135k - 270k before haste. Adding the 4.7% into the equation (3 Real PPM * 1.047 * 45k and 90k =) gives me 141,345 - 282,690 damage. Adding 3.3% damage into the first equation (135k + 3.3% and 270k + 3.3%) gives me 139,500 - 279,000. So as you can see mathematically, haste is better by a bit because it takes less haste to make a % than it does for mastery for survival.

425 haste = 1% haste

600 mastery = 1% mastery

So if it is ahead by a bit even with mastery competing, it would be better with mastery being taken out of the equation.

Edited by Tehstool

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Guest Hijynnx

I would love for a more in depth explanation on when you make the switch to haste > crit. I know it works, would just like to know why it works lol.

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Guest Wulf

The guide is missing "Tailspin" the Fox pet ability that debuffs enemy melee and ranged attack speed. Pretty useless for PvE, but situationally useful for PvP.

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I would love for a more in depth explanation on when you make the switch to haste > crit. I know it works, would just like to know why it works lol.

Basically it's about equal for SV single target if you have the legendary meta, 4 piece, and renataki's/bad juju. Most hunters go haste > crit because of BM. For SV aoe crit is better.

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