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Damien

[Archived] Retribution Paladin 5.4

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If Haste is truly a higher priority than Mastery now, why were enchants and gems not updated to reflect this?

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Regarding Word of Glory, what if I am using both the Glyphs of Harsh Words and Word Of Glory, would that help in fights were casting Word of Glory on enemies causes damage, and grants you a small buff for using it when your not in range of enemies sometimes. I figured that would allow Retribution Paladins to keep their DPS up when just out of reach of some bosses cause of mechanics.

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If Haste is truly a higher priority than Mastery now, why were enchants and gems not updated to reflect this?

Thats a very good question. I'm wondering the same thing.

We will update them shortly. Thanks for noticing and sorry for taking so long to reply.

Regarding Word of Glory, what if I am using both the Glyphs of Harsh Words and Word Of Glory, would that help in fights were casting Word of Glory on enemies causes damage, and grants you a small buff for using it when your not in range of enemies sometimes. I figured that would allow Retribution Paladins to keep their DPS up when just out of reach of some bosses cause of mechanics.

I can confirm that you do indeed get the bonus of Glyph of Word of Glory if you use Word of Glory to damage enemies (Glyph of Harsh Words). It still doesn't allow you to "DPS effectively at range", but it's a good improvement anyway. I'll make sure to add it to the guide soon. Thanks for the suggestion!

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why you posted Hammer of the Righteous as been on retri rotation for multiple target?

as far as i know this ability is prot only

for that matter retri AOE is week-est in-game atm

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why you posted Hammer of the Righteous as been on retri rotation for multiple target?

as far as i know this ability is prot only

for that matter retri AOE is week-est in-game atm

Hammer of the Righteous did get added to the retribution specialization and it grants 1HP regardless of number of targets hit. I've not had any aoe issues except on 2-3 targets. We don't seem to scale well (unless I'm doing something wrong) on 2-3 targets but as the number of targets increases our AOE starts to shine. Look over the Multiple Target Rotation section again and make sure that you are switching to Seal of Righteousness for AOE situations. Hope that helps. Posted Image

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Hammer of the Righteous did get added to the retribution specialization and it grants 1HP regardless of number of targets hit. I've not had any aoe issues except on 2-3 targets. We don't seem to scale well (unless I'm doing something wrong) on 2-3 targets but as the number of targets increases our AOE starts to shine. Look over the Multiple Target Rotation section again and make sure that you are switching to Seal of Righteousness for AOE situations. Hope that helps. Posted Image

Do you leave SOR up through your rotation? or do you swap back to SOT when down to 3 or less targets?

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Ok further update after some testing. I am finding the following to be optimal (note this is for my gear and you may find slightly different results):

Following normal priority: Inq > 5HP DS > HoW > Exo > CS > Judge > 3-4HP TV

at 2 targets swap from Templar's Verdict to Divine Storm

at 4 targets swap from Crusader Strike to Hammer of the Righteous

at 6 targets swap from Seal of Truth to Seal of Righteousness

Hope that helps. I have been seeing very good numbers using this method.

Edited by Vladamyr

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Ok further update after some testing. I am finding the following to be optimal (note this is for my gear and you may find slightly different results):

Following normal priority: Inq > 5HP DS > HoW > Exo > CS > Judge > 3-4HP TV

at 2 targets swap from Templar's Verdict to Divine Storm

at 4 targets swap from Crusader Strike to Hammer of the Righteous

at 6 targets swap from Seal of Truth to Seal of Righteousness

Hope that helps. I have been seeing very good numbers using this method.

Are you reforging/chanting haste>Mastery>Crit? Got any numbers?

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Ok further update after some testing. I am finding the following to be optimal (note this is for my gear and you may find slightly different results):

Following normal priority: Inq > 5HP DS > HoW > Exo > CS > Judge > 3-4HP TV

at 2 targets swap from Templar's Verdict to Divine Storm

at 4 targets swap from Crusader Strike to Hammer of the Righteous

at 6 targets swap from Seal of Truth to Seal of Righteousness

Hope that helps. I have been seeing very good numbers using this method.

Thanks for this. I will make some updates to the AoE section based on your post. But I'd like to ask, how come Templar's Verdict deals less damage than Divine Storm, for you, against 2 targets? Did you check this aspect thoroughly? (I assume you did, but it just seems odd) Is it because Divine Storm's damage is Holy damage, meaning it benefits from Inquisition, whereas Templar's Verdict is just normal damage?

The Holy damage vs normal damage probably explains why Crusader Strike stops being better than Hammer of the Righteous at 4 targets instead of 5, too.

I'd be curious to know what you think.

is it really possible to use five holy power with templars verdict?

Templar's Verdict will only use 3 of those 5 charges of Holy Power. "Templar's Verdict with 5 Holy Power" simply means using Templar's Verdict when you have 5 Holy Power, since using any Holy Power-generating moves at that point will cause additional Holy Power to be wasted (since 5 is the maximum amount).

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I must have had a RNG issue or reforge difference. I was reforged Mastery>Crit>Haste and was seeing average DS hitting for 400dps more than 1/2 of a TV. I just reforged Haste>Mastery>Crit and retested today on the (85) training dummies with 100 TV's and 100 DS's (200 counts of damage) My average TV hits for 36k and my average DS hits for 17k/target pushing it back to 3 targets for DS. I am now thinking that it will depend on your reforging strategy. One other thing to note is that when fighting multiple targets I have found it very beneficial to use constant target switching to maintain Censure stacks on as many targets as possible this is what is causing me to surpass SoR with SoT for so long.

Also I am not by any means a well versed tester. I go and hit the dummies unbuffed to determine approximate damage amounts for abilities per target. I then try to run dungeons or raids using AOE rotations based on those findings, review my logs and then post my very subjective review on those rotations. So don't take those as fully tested numbers, that's just what I am seeing as best currently. Posted Image

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So I ran a small sample set of CS vs HotR (No buffs no seals.) In 25 strikes at 85 target dummies I got the following results:

CS with HoL damage was 17,277 damage per strike

HotR on 2 targets showed 12,359 damage per strike

HotR on 3 targets showed 18,149 damage per strike.

I fully realize this is a small sample set, when I get time I will go back and try a much larger set (200 strikes or so). I am very surprised by these results though. I would have thought that HotR on 3 targets (20% to main target + 35% X 3 targets) would have been far behind CS (144% +819)? Am I missing something like seal interaction somehow? Just want peoples thoughts?

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So I ran a small sample set of CS vs HotR (No buffs no seals.) In 25 strikes at 85 target dummies I got the following results:

CS with HoL damage was 17,277 damage per strike

HotR on 2 targets showed 12,359 damage per strike

HotR on 3 targets showed 18,149 damage per strike.

I fully realize this is a small sample set, when I get time I will go back and try a much larger set (200 strikes or so). I am very surprised by these results though. I would have thought that HotR on 3 targets (20% to main target + 35% X 3 targets) would have been far behind CS (144% +819)? Am I missing something like seal interaction somehow? Just want peoples thoughts?

Don't forget that HotR hits every target with 35% holy damage — Inquisition increases holy damage by another 30%.

That means, if you hit tree targets, you cause 20% physical plus (3*35%)*30% holy damage. That's 156.5% damage total and comes close to your figures above.

CS is physical damage, not holy.

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Wow that get's confusing :) I would love some guidance towards running testing on AOE rotations.

So a quick break down of abilities (please correct me on errors):

Seal of Truth 12% (Holy) damage and Censure (Holy) damage to 1 target.

Seal of Righteousness 6% (Holy) damage to targets within 8 yards.

Crusader Strike 125% +633 (Physical) and Mastery: Hand of Light (Holy) damage to 1 target.

Hammer of the Righteous 20% (Physical) damage to 1 target + 35% (Holy) damage and Mastery: Hand of Light (Holy) damage to every target including the original.

Templar's Verdict 275%+628 (Physical) damage and Mastery: Hand of Light (Holy) damage to 1 target.

Divine Storm 135% (Holy) damage and Mastery: Hand of Light (Holy) damage to targets within 8 yards.

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Just wanted to throw in that if you have the means you can stack blacksmithing and JCing for the highest strength gain of 134 with the two added sockets (using Chimera Eyes) and replacing a Bold Queens Garnet with a Chimera eye for another 17 strength. Or 134 with the two added sockets (using Chimera Eyes) and replacing a Bold Inferno Ruby with a Chimera Eye for another 27 stength.

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You can only have a maximum of 3 Chimera Eyes +17 Str more than Bold Queen's Garnet which equates to a +51 Str gain. Currently JC offers the worst gain of all non-gathering professions. Hopefully they fix this in MoP and keep them equivalent Posted Image

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Just to let you all know, Inquistion got another buff added to it. It also increases your Critical Strike chance by 10% again increasing it's importance

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Thought I would throw in my opinion on our Tier 1 Talents, I think Long Arm of the Law is by far the most useful of the 3 choices. I have not ran into a situation where I need added movement speed and there isn't a target to judge. I can out kite anyone (other than a monk) and being able to close faster on mobs is a gain on dps. The way it's portrayed in the guide makes it sound weak, whereas, I see it as the strongest. Also for leveling or questing it offers much improved survivability (as you can simply judge and run away or kite forever).

Until there is a specific situation for Speed of Light it seems the weakest option to me. Pursuit of Justice is almost always just a 15-20% improvement (you are typically blowing through holy power). Judgement's cooldown is now affected by haste (our best secondary stat) so Long Arm of the Law gets better uptime as you go.

Just my 2 cents. Posted Image

Edited by Vladamyr

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Thought I would throw in my opinion on our Tier 1 Talents, I think Long Arm of the Law is by far the most useful of the 3 choices. I have not ran into a situation where I need added movement speed and there isn't a target to judge. I can out kite anyone (other than a monk) and being able to close faster on mobs is a gain on dps. The way it's portrayed in the guide makes it sound weak, whereas, I see it as the strongest. Also for leveling or questing it offers much improved survivability (as you can simply judge and run away or kite forever).

Until there is a specific situation for Speed of Light it seems the weakest option to me. Pursuit of Justice is almost always just a 15-20% improvement (you are typically blowing through holy power). Judgement's cooldown is now affected by haste (our best secondary stat) so Long Arm of the Law gets better uptime as you go.

Just my 2 cents. Posted Image

Thank you for these solid points. While I'm not sure that Long Arm of the Law is the best choice in the way you portray it, I've "given it some extra love" in the talents page.

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Your gems are wrong in my oppinion. Strength one +160 ought to be first choice in red socket. It was once that way, and now I see it is mentioned nowhere.

*bow*

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As explained on the EJ forums, you should only gem pure strength if you are in pre-raid gear levels. At T14+ haste is a better increase and is no longer less than .5 strength (so you should gem more for a haste build).

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Your gems are wrong in my oppinion. Strength one +160 ought to be first choice in red socket. It was once that way, and now I see it is mentioned nowhere.

*bow*

Indeed, as Vladamyr posted below, the haste gemming is correct. It might seem a bit counter-intuitive, but alas, it is so.

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