[Archived] Retribution Paladin 5.4

[Guest Phortumos]

Out of interest, is there any "effective" haste cap or does haste still scale as well when we reach the point of CS CD being in line with the GCD? I'm sitting on 33.43% haste - 43.43 with raid haste buff and 73.43% with heroism and I am finding I am almost at the point (but not quite) in those situations of being able to chain cast CS... Not got any ToT HC gear for ret yet and I can only imagine that this will become even more pronounced as I gear up even further. Furthermore, when we reach this point, with the ret 4-pc bonus, chain casting CS sounds pretty nice!

Phortumos@Aszune

[Stoove 347]

Specific questions about rotations and stat priorities might be better addressed by creating a new thread in the Paladin section of these forums. They might get more attention there.

[Guest Sinstriker]

I was looking at the Best in Slot list (https://www.icy-veins.com/retribution-paladin-wow-pve-dps-spec-builds-talents-glyphs) and noticed that Primordius' Talisman of Rage is a best in slot next to Spark of Zandalar.  I am having trouble finding a top performing Ret paladin using the Primordius trinket.  Also Morgeine that reviewed the BiS list does not use this trinket, or possiblly just dosnt have it equiped when I looked him up.  Is this list still valid?  Does it need updating? Is there a reason to use the Ji-Kun Trinket over the Primordius trinket and vis versa?

 

I use the Ji-Kun and Zandalar trinkets on most fights, but, I replace the Zandalar with the Primordius trinket on fights where I never have to be out of DPS range of the boss.  This seems to render higher numbers.  I am still playing with trinket combinations.

[Tarazet 144]

The proc rate on Primordius' trinket is terrible. We had a Frost DK try to use it and it rarely, if ever, stacked to more than 2. He switched back to the Shado-Pan Assault trinket (plus the Ji-Kun feather) because it just wasn't doing anything.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Tarazet

[Guest cliff]

why cant i "hit" ask mr robot any more....on any of my toons...it just "sits" there and does nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Morgeine 0]

I was looking at the Best in Slot list (https://www.icy-veins.com/retribution-paladin-wow-pve-dps-spec-builds-talents-glyphs) and noticed that Primordius' Talisman of Rage is a best in slot next to Spark of Zandalar.  I am having trouble finding a top performing Ret paladin using the Primordius trinket.  Also Morgeine that reviewed the BiS list does not use this trinket, or possiblly just dosnt have it equiped when I looked him up.  Is this list still valid?  Does it need updating? Is there a reason to use the Ji-Kun Trinket over the Primordius trinket and vis versa?

 

I use the Ji-Kun and Zandalar trinkets on most fights, but, I replace the Zandalar with the Primordius trinket on fights where I never have to be out of DPS range of the boss.  This seems to render higher numbers.  I am still playing with trinket combinations.

Ji-Kun trinket is 1st BiS trinket for sure. After that it depends on the fight and the overall DPS of your raid. Bosse's die in about half the time they did on progress so the uptime of Primordius' Talisman of Rage is outperformed by  Spark of Zandalar thats why I'm using it currently. Ji-Kun should always be your 1st trinket. Hope I helped

[Liquicity91 0]

What ilvl does haste become better than str?

 

[Vladamyr 169]

1 Str = .52 to about .57 haste. (depends on your gear).  You would have to run Simcraft to know what your personal stat weights are.

[Guest ntacywa]

Why don't you include Axe Specialization in this section?

 

2.5. Expertise Cap

At level 90, most races require 2,550 Expertise Rating to reach the expertise cap. Some races, in some cases, only need 2,210 Expertise Rating, thanks to passive racial skills:

• Dwarves when using a Mace ( Mace Specialization);
• Humans when using a Mace/Sword ( Mace Specialization and  Sword Specialization).

[Paladin2013 5]

Nice guide! By the way, does Retribution Paladin can defeat Warrior easily under the condition of same gear level.

[Furiyers 10]

just wondering if anyone has done any maths on the Alacrity of Xuen trinket to compare it to normal/heroic ToT trinkets, I'm curious if it's worth going after while waiting for SoO trinkets to drop

[Guest PureOwnag3]

Do u ret paladins not notice we are very bad in dps in patch 5.4 ?

I mean i was always top dps with patch 5.3, but now i do so less then other people of my raid.

I saw the noxxic dps chart, and i saw that ret paladins are 21 in the list, we where 4 in the list of patch 5.3

Even our burst dps cant come close to the most of my raid team.

when 5.4 came out i was with another 1 of my raid, the best geared, and we did SoO, and i noticed directly that my dps wasnt the same as it was at 5.3.

 

I already watch some sites like this and others to look for changes that made my dps lower, but when i saw the dps chart at noxxic, then i was sure, we are nerfed to the bone :-(

[Guest Lexdivinae]

I have a few questions about the gemming guide here. Firstly; why is ask mr. robot telling me to use exp-haste orange gems in my socket? I use the shado-pan trink which gives me enough expertise to reach my cap (with the exceptions of a few exp reforges out of crit) to need to gem exp over the strength I would otherwise be using. Secondly, wouldn’t using a haste-stam gem for blue sockets be better if you’re over caped? If you’re reforging every bit of hit out that you can and you’re still just barely reaching /overcapping on hit then what’s the sense of adding in haste-hit gems (ask mr. robot also tells me to add haste-hit gems when I was grossly overcapping hit). Lastly; I was wonder what was the opinion on socket bonuses? I’ve noticed that contrary to previous end-of-xpac tiers the gear that drops in SoO contains quite a bit of blue gem sockets. This being said is it worth going for the 120/180 strength socket bonuses if it means you need to dredge around red and blue sockets to do that? Thank-you for reading and I hope this gets answered fast! :3

[Lexdivinae 0]

I have a few questions about the gemming guide here. Firstly; why is ask mr. robot telling me to use exp-haste orange gems in my socket? I use the shado-pan trink which gives me enough expertise to reach my cap (with the exceptions of a few exp reforges out of crit) to need to gem exp over the strength I would otherwise be using. Secondly, wouldn’t using a haste-stam gem for blue sockets be better if you’re over caped? If you’re reforging every bit of hit out that you can and you’re still just barely reaching /overcapping on hit then what’s the sense of adding in haste-hit gems (ask mr. robot also tells me to add haste-hit gems when I was grossly overcapping hit). Lastly; I was wonder what was the opinion on socket bonuses? I’ve noticed that contrary to previous end-of-xpac tiers the gear that drops in SoO contains quite a bit of blue gem sockets. This being said is it worth going for the 120/180 strength socket bonuses if it means you need to dredge around red and blue sockets to do that? Thank-you for reading and I hope this gets answered fast! :3

[Tritium 1]

I have a few questions about the gemming guide here. Firstly; why is ask mr. robot telling me to use exp-haste orange gems in my socket? I use the shado-pan trink which gives me enough expertise to reach my cap (with the exceptions of a few exp reforges out of crit) to need to gem exp over the strength I would otherwise be using. Secondly, wouldn’t using a haste-stam gem for blue sockets be better if you’re over caped? If you’re reforging every bit of hit out that you can and you’re still just barely reaching /overcapping on hit then what’s the sense of adding in haste-hit gems (ask mr. robot also tells me to add haste-hit gems when I was grossly overcapping hit). Lastly; I was wonder what was the opinion on socket bonuses? I’ve noticed that contrary to previous end-of-xpac tiers the gear that drops in SoO contains quite a bit of blue gem sockets. This being said is it worth going for the 120/180 strength socket bonuses if it means you need to dredge around red and blue sockets to do that? Thank-you for reading and I hope this gets answered fast! :3

 

 

I personally don't use Ask Mr. Robot because of how hit or miss it is. Try using wowreforge instead.

[Tritium 1]

Do u ret paladins not notice we are very bad in dps in patch 5.4 ?

I mean i was always top dps with patch 5.3, but now i do so less then other people of my raid.

I saw the noxxic dps chart, and i saw that ret paladins are 21 in the list, we where 4 in the list of patch 5.3

Even our burst dps cant come close to the most of my raid team.

when 5.4 came out i was with another 1 of my raid, the best geared, and we did SoO, and i noticed directly that my dps wasnt the same as it was at 5.3.

 

I already watch some sites like this and others to look for changes that made my dps lower, but when i saw the dps chart at noxxic, then i was sure, we are nerfed to the bone :-(

 

Yeah, I've noticed a significant damage drop. Though I'm noticing ret is more like it was in Wrath now, but you don't notice it until T16 4 set.

[Guest Aleksej89]

Hand of Salvation, the temporary threat wiping hand, is not at all mentioned under useful buffs.

 

Pretty big oversight since it is a very useful hand that can easily save yourself or your teammates.

[Guest Gezinus Bosboom]

 Sacred Shield can be active on more than one target at once. 

 

 

[Lexdivinae 0]

 

 

 

 

 

I personally don't use Ask Mr. Robot because of how hit or miss it is. Try using wowreforge instead.

oh yeah, for sure. the only problem I have with wowreforge is that it's not updated to include SoO item upgrades. so for reforging I use an addon called ReforgeLite which was recently upgraded and works perfectly. AskMrRobot is nice for SimCrafting, that's about all I've found it helpful for. 

Edited October 14, 2013 by Lexdivinae

[Lexdivinae 0]

Hand of Salvation, the temporary threat wiping hand, is not at all mentioned under useful buffs.

 

Pretty big oversight since it is a very useful hand that can easily save yourself or your teammates.

I recently discovered this as I haven't been playing ret pally for very long and I haft to say it's a life saver. definitely 1000x useful 

[Guest Metalface]

In the single target rotation, why is exorcism now the lowest priority HP generator? it still has the highest damage even without the t15 2pc bonus.

[Guest Nami]

Excelent guide i am trying to implament it now that i decided to get away from tanking. But as i read your guide and looked at glyphing and then rotations i had a question. You said earlyer in your tallent builds that "Sacred Shield can easily be incorporated into your rotation (which has some down-time), and doing so will reduce a sizeable amount of damage over the course of the fight. We believe that this is the superior choice in most cases, so we advise it." but then you totaly skip over even mentioning it in your rotation section or where it falls in the priortizing schedule

[Lexdivinae 0]

In the single target rotation, why is exorcism now the lowest priority HP generator? it still has the highest damage even without the t15 2pc bonus.

agreed. also keeping it on the highest priority for cooldown will make sure that you utilize your Art Of War procs to their fullest and keeping up the extra 5% dmg from the 2-set. 

 

edit: after looking at some data I've found that Judgement actually hits substantially higher than Exorcism and on top of that Art of War can still proc even when Exorcism is on CD so this would bring Judgement at a higher priority over Exorcism. And as to why Crusader Strike had a higher priority over Exorcism, well my guess would be that it has the shortest CD and can be used for fastest holy power generator. 

Edited November 4, 2013 by Lexdivinae

[Guest Tritium]

oh yeah, for sure. the only problem I have with wowreforge is that it's not updated to include SoO item upgrades. so for reforging I use an addon called ReforgeLite which was recently upgraded and works perfectly. AskMrRobot is nice for SimCrafting, that's about all I've found it helpful for. 

 

I may need to check out that addon then. I didn't know WoW Reforge wasn't updated properly.

[Guest Metalface]

by the way I found out why exorcism is low, it is because exorcism does not benefit from mastery. Another small thing, it is a spell and does not stack censure so the melee abilities auto attack, crusader strike, judgment, and templar's verdict should be used to stack censure as quickly as possible.

 

also i believe vlad pointed out somewhere that once you have thok's tail tip your build switches to haste>crit>mastery, which simcraft will tell you is true, but for some reason it never actually pulls ahead, and with a lot of testing on my gear (563 ilvl) and a lot of variations in crit and mastery reforging, i found out that you still have to reforge haste>mastery>crit for highest damage.