[Archived] Subtlety Rogue 5.4

[Guest Estrilda]

This isn't a reply bout which weapons to use. I found a mistake on the rotation. You stated to use Tricks of the Trade and one of the opening moves. Nut as a Sbutlety Rouge we are unable to use that spell as it ONLY for Assissnation and Combat Rogues.

[Damien 1,514]

This isn't a reply bout which weapons to use. I found a mistake on the rotation. You stated to use Tricks of the Trade and one of the opening moves. Nut as a Sbutlety Rouge we are unable to use that spell as it ONLY for Assissnation and Combat Rogues.

I believe that you are incorrect.

[Guest Rits]

I believe that you are incorrect.

It's beyond incorrect, I use Tricks on my sub rogue all the time. With all due respect, buddy is talking out of his butt.

[Damien 1,514]

It's beyond incorrect, I use Tricks on my sub rogue all the time. With all due respect, buddy is talking out of his butt.

I need to be diplomatic about it, do I not? :P

[Guest Elinand]

On the Macros & Addons page there is a macro that says "Shadowmeld, the night elf racial trait enables you to cast Ambush (which makes night elves an excellent race for subtlety rogues)". I've tried shadowmelding and ambushing in game, and it doesn't work. I believe this is due to the fact that Shadowmeld doesn't make you enter stealth, as the tooltip on it says "Activate to slip into the shadows reducing the chance for enemies to detect your presence."

[Tarazet 144]

On the Macros & Addons page there is a macro that says "Shadowmeld, the night elf racial trait enables you to cast Ambush (which makes night elves an excellent race for subtlety rogues)". I've tried shadowmelding and ambushing in game, and it doesn't work. I believe this is due to the fact that Shadowmeld doesn't make you enter stealth, as the tooltip on it says "Activate to slip into the shadows reducing the chance for enemies to detect your presence."

I saw a comment on Wowhead that you can only use Ambush from Shadowmeld starting at level 80. Anyway, it drops combat, so I believe you can follow it up by using your actual stealth. It's like a racial Vanish.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Tarazet

[Guest Vellic]

In the guide, it states that Cloak and Dagger is useless, would someone mind elaborating on why this is so?

[Damien 1,514]

In the guide, it states that Cloak and Dagger is useless, would someone mind elaborating on why this is so?

Shadowstep is always a better alternative, as you can use it any time during the fight, not just for opening up. Also, with Patch 5.3, you can no longer benefit from Cloak and Dagger during Shadow Blades (it requires real Stealth now).

[Guest Guest]

How come you say sub stat prio is haste > crit > mastery, when the person who approved your guide, Dryaan, prioritized mastery > haste > crit?

[Stoove 347]

How come you say sub stat prio is haste > crit > mastery, when the person who approved your guide, Dryaan, prioritized mastery > haste > crit?

The guides are generally aimed at the "everyman". The person who approved the guide is clearly not :)

[Mav360 1]

Taking up from this thread (https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/2504-subterfuge-and-glyph-of-vanish/), Glyph of Vanish along with Subterfuge, allows for total of 8 seconds to use Ambush when Vanish is cast (5 seconds of Vanish with Glyph + 3 of Subterfuge, up from 2 of Vanish + 3 of Subterfuge). I verified this and constantly use it as a Sub PvE player. So I think Glyph of Vanish should be added as a mandatory Glyph.

I also find the suggested opening sequence a bit unreliable to maximize Find Weakness uptime. I usually open with Garrote + Premeditation + Ambush + 5CP Slice and Dice (sometimes I can even cast a 2nd Ambush), so when Garrote wears out I can quickly cast Rupture and then Shadow Dance without having to refresh Slice and Dice.

[Guest Noobus]

Noob here,,, was wondering why the 5.8 Opening sequence does not have Premeditation+SnD in it?
And..the Tricks chapter, what is that about using TotT with Vanish for 75% less energy cost - didnt this guide
just assume+recommend that Subterfuge is the way to go,, instead of Shadow Focus ?

[Guest mike]

You should consider putting text for the gem sockets on the guides instead of a small icon. Great site nonetheless very helpful!

[Guest Justin]

On your page that covers rotations and cooldowns you have listed apply Rupture @ 5 CPs except if Garrote or Crimson Tempest are present in which case Rupture is not needed. that makes no sense to me since Sanguinary Vein increases Rupture damage by 50%.

[Sorkee 0]

Glyph of Vanish extends your Subterfuge by an additional 3 seconds, which in fact is dps increase. (1 more ambush, more duration of FW).

[Guest Guest]

Talking about addons,  the WeakAuras (linked in the guide) is still for v5.3  however, there is also a WeakAuras 2 on curse.com for 5.4

[Damien 1,514]

Talking about addons,  the WeakAuras (linked in the guide) is still for v5.3  however, there is also a WeakAuras 2 on curse.com for 5.4

I'll look into it. Thanks!

[Guest qlu]

Finally, one last trick can be used when  Vanish and  Shadow Dance come off cooldown at the same time. Use  Shadow Dance first. After Shadow Dance expires, you will still benefit from the  Find Weakness given by the last  Ambush you cast during Shadow Dance. Wait for that Find Weakness to have about 1 second left on its duration. Then, cast  Vanish+ Ambush. This will cause Ambush to benefit from the Find Weakness that was about to expire and to apply a new Find Weakness. 

 

 

EDIT: Please delete my previous comment since it is misleading and incorrect

[Damien 1,514]

EDIT: Please delete my previous comment since it is misleading and incorrect

Done

[Guest Malusive]

I notice that this guide never addresses Glyph of Vanish. I believe it to be a dps gain, however, this guide doesn't seem to think it's important.

[Guest lacrossebro]

for you're opening rotaion, just before the boss is pulled, wouldn't you want to cast prep and SnD so its already up?

[Guest PingSmith]

5.5. Rupture and Sanguinary Vein

 Sanguinary Vein is a passive ability that increases the damage of your  Rupture ability by 50% and that causes you to deal 35% increased damage to enemies afflicted by Rupture,  Garrote, or  Crimson Tempest (your AoE Finishing Move).

The most obvious implication of having this passive ability is that  Rupture should always be on the target, so that you always deal 20% increased damage. If  Garrote or  Crimson Tempest are already on the target, then you do not need to apply  Rupture.

Another, less obvious implication is that you can use  Garrote for breaking out of Stealth at the pull. This will instantly grant you a 18-second duration on  Sanguinary Vein (and during this time, you do not need to apply or refresh  Rupture).

 

I've been out of the game for a while so I figured I ask for some clarification.

Why does damage bonus drop from 35% to 20%? Does Rupture overwrite Garrote now? I remember them being two separate dots. Either way, why not keep Rupture refreshed since it does more damage and has more tics than Garrote? Is it a dps loss to use Rupture instead of Eviscerate now?

[Guest Guest]

Am I missing something? Why not just get the Hemorrhage glyph and never caste Rupture if eviscerate is better dps?

Why not just use hemorrhage to keep up Sanguinary Veins and use all your combo points towards Eviscerate and S&D

 

 

 

 

[Nukee 0]

On the Macros & Addons page there is a macro that says "Shadowmeld, the night elf racial trait enables you to cast Ambush (which makes night elves an excellent race for subtlety rogues)". I've tried shadowmelding and ambushing in game, and it doesn't work. I believe this is due to the fact that Shadowmeld doesn't make you enter stealth, as the tooltip on it says "Activate to slip into the shadows reducing the chance for enemies to detect your presence."

Shadowmeld+Ambush macro indeed it works . Make a macro and remember this: you should press the macro key twice and make sure to have 60+ energy pooled.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Nukee

[Mav360 1]

 

Am I missing something? Why not just get the Hemorrhage glyph and never caste Rupture if eviscerate is better dps?

Why not just use hemorrhage to keep up Sanguinary Veins and use all your combo points towards Eviscerate and S&D

I'm no theorycrafter, but I guess since Rupture is still on Combat rotation for example, it should stay on Subtlety's. IIRC, one Rupture is more efficient than one Eviscerate in terms of EnergyxDamage. Furthermore, Sanguinary Veins boosts Rupture's damage a further 50%, so I guess it may do even more damage than Eviscerate (plus, Eviscerate got nerfed).

 

By my experience as a Sub Rogue, I think the new Glyph of Hemorrhaging Veins is too good to pass on by every Sub Rogue. It just makes target switching that much simple, and improves the rotation. With a combination of Hemorrhage and Rupture, you will have Sanguinary Veins up nearly 100% of the time on your target. With this, managing your Shadow Dance and Vanish cooldowns also become that much simpler, since you don't need to worry anymore that Rupture is up or not or about to fall down before activating them. Also, it slightly improves (I believe) the Opening Sequence. Instead of opening with Garrote, as the Icy Veins guide recommends, I now open with Hemorrhage, which costs 15 less energy than Garrote and still aplies the Sanguinary Veins debuff.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Mav360