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Damien

Heroes of the Storm Thrall

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This thread is for comments our Thrall build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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Cos of in the actual meta is usual to see 2xtank compositions i think "giant killer" is the best talent choice in both builds... agree with the rest.
Anyway i prefer to play chains build... its more solid than the other in almost all maps. ^^

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Agree. Which is why Giant Killer is rated "situational". If the situation occurs that the enemy team consists of two or even three Warriors, Giant Killer is the best solution. 

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I wish you wouldnt dismiss Earthquake, very often I secure way more kills with it than I do with sundering, heroes like li-mei, kael, jaina, li-li and others get completely annihilated by it.  With its lower cooldown compared to sundering now, I find myself picking it at least 40% of the time with amazing results.

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Hey Steve,

 

I agree, Earthquake is a hidden gem sometimes, however, it is not as good as to make a recommended or even a situational talent just yet. I haven't seen a single pro player use it in important games and overall I think people would get tempted to misunderstand and misuse Earthquake. This would ultimately harm themselves and their teammates. 

 

But I appreciate your feedback! Let's hope that Earthquake will make it into the broad meta one day, as I'm loving the ability itself. :) 

 

- Ken

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Hi!

I'm curious how the Grace of Air and Tempest Fury synergy works. You state that they (with Wind Shear) makes Wind Fury a " high-damage ability that also causes him to gain 10 stacks of Frostwolf Resilience Icon Frostwolf Resilience all by itself. ". One stack per Wind Fury attack gives 3, with Grace of Air that is 6, I suppose Tempest Fury is a separate damage source, which also gets doubled and brings it to 8 stacks. Where do the last 2 Frostwolf Resilience come from that the guide seem to count?

I admit, I have not played the Wind Fury build yet, I prefer the poke and safety provided with the Lightning Bolt build. But the guide has enticed me to try it out :)

Thanks for the guide!

Regards, legobil

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Love the guides. I usually will not pick envenom as my level 4 talent when I go for a windfury build, as I find the poking and waveclear potential nice, and the mana return is great. Is this a viable option, or am I just limiting myself by not picking envenom?

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17 hours ago, Guest HaranHaradra said:

Love the guides. I usually will not pick envenom as my level 4 talent when I go for a windfury build, as I find the poking and waveclear potential nice, and the mana return is great. Is this a viable option, or am I just limiting myself by not picking envenom?

How late into the game does the mana return remain useful for you?

The waveclear most likely isn't the worst thing in the world, it just means you're straying slightly away from the "destroy a hero" build into a more "bit of both" build. If you're looking specifically to focus single heroes down quickly, I'd stick with envenom. 

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My thought process was a hybrid AoE bruiser with equal parts of melee destroyer, and little downtime at all.  I also tend to cast Chain Lightning every time the opportunity presents itself, which is probably attributed to me trying to play Thrall like I did in WC3.  Which I probably shouldn't be doing now that I think about it....

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5 hours ago, Guest HaranHaradra said:

My thought process was a hybrid AoE bruiser with equal parts of melee destroyer, and little downtime at all.  I also tend to cast Chain Lightning every time the opportunity presents itself, which is probably attributed to me trying to play Thrall like I did in WC3.  Which I probably shouldn't be doing now that I think about it....

It can be hard to shake old habits!

The build sounds fine, I imagine you probably still perform well with it, it's just those tiny do or die moments where you might find yourself wishing for the other X talent. If it works for you, keep doing it, but I'd definitely try out Kendric's build and see how it feels in a few games.

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I disagree with the builds they have listed. Envenom should NEVER be taken. The most optimal way to play thrall are the first two chain lightning talents, Follow Through and Sundering. from there you can adjust to the game/composition variables. Spell shield should only be taken vs. double mage (or anything with a lot of ability damage, and it's very helpful vs. Nova, etc). Giant killer should only be taken vs. double warrior comps... unless you're feeling very confident in the game. Grace of Air is a good all around talent and is excellent for taking merc camps more efficiently. It's kind of a filler talent when the other conditions aren't present (double mage/nova/double warrior). Also a good talent to take vs. Illidan is Tempest Fury... because even though your Wind Fury strikes miss him when he's in Evasion... you will still get the proc damage off of Tempest Fury. And I almost always take Forked Lightning... because the chain talents taken so far turn it into one of the most efficient abilities in the game and it is an extra way to build Resilience. Plus its really great for poking and finishing off kills (I can't tell you how many kills I've gotten thanks strictly to the 2nd chain lightning as they run off into the distance thinking they survived). Nexus Blades should only be reserved for top level Thrall players that know what they are doing. Bolt of the Storm should be taken almost all the time. It's great for finishing off heroes like li ming. You can literally Sundering her, bolt next to her, root her with wolf and finish her off. She can do nothing to get out of it (even when they take all the teleport talents). 

 

Thrall on!

 

PS. I saw somebody above comment that they shouldn't dismiss Earthquake. Until they change that ability, I see it as one requiring a significant buff in order to be viable. I absolutely dismiss Earthquake. Do NOT take it. Sundering is just so much more effective in so many more situations. 

 

PPS. There seems to be some debate on here vs. Envenom or the Chain Lightning talent. I firmly believe that Envenom is a wasted talent in playing "the most optimized" Thrall. First, to answer the question about how late in the game does the mana return on chain lightning stay useful? Well... there are diminished returns.. but honestly I think the most important part of the first chain lightning talent is the range upgrade. There are plenty of times you will chain lightning heroes and not be able to hit them and get the mana. Therefor choosing who to chain lightning as a form of poke is important. The only Hero I hit with shields is Kerrigan, other than that target "squishy" heroes like mages or support heroes. And avoid heroes that have good self-sustain (like Muradin, for example, who just runs off and regains it at cost of no mana with Second Wind). You may want to save your mana against heroes when they have a healer like Brightwing who is capable of negating your damage at the cost of no mana to them. At a certain point this game becomes a lot about mana grind and hero kills are a lot less rare. 

Edited by Su6LiMe

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14 hours ago, Su6LiMe said:

Thrall on!

This one most likely will take a much more in-depth analysis than I can provide, so I'll leave it to @KendricSwissh! Hopefully he can shed some light on your comments

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I like to build hybrid earthquake and windfury with envenom. Seems to work nice for me. Earthquake just has so much more utility against most comps imo.

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Man, I've tried to make Thrall work, but since the lightning dmg nerf he's so lacklustre compared to other similar assassins like Kerri, Alarak et al. So underwhelming. I can't put my finger on it, maybe he's just not my playstyle. He used to be so fun, now he's just so average. Hoping for buffs and remove the generic talents (block, season marksmen)

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Thrall is far from being underwhelming. Ever since his Earthquake received a buff, he has become one of the top tier melee Assassins. 

 

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Ever seen a Thrall get kited by a Tracer? Just had a game and a Rehgar and a Thrall were chasing me, and they couldn't do anything. They both busted out heroics and it didn't matter. Really funny to watch - but also Tracer is a bad 1v1 for Thrall, as his only ability which can give him stacks is Chain LightningChain Lightning if Tracer is playing properly. I'm not so sure about team fights, but she might just be a counter pick as he can't get in melee range if it's a competent Tracer player. Just throwing this out there.

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24 minutes ago, Niteshadow said:

 

Ever seen a Thrall get kited by a Tracer? ...

 

Thrall definitely has counters, no doubt about that. particularly if you draft him early without team comp support, he is very vulnerable to kiters like tracer as well as heroes with blinds who know to save it for windfury.  I don't think any of that invalidates Thrall as a pick, or even as a high tier pick; given a lack of these harder counters (or a comp that makes up for them) he can do a *lot* of work.

 

worth mentioning in this thread, as recently as a few posts ago opinions of earthquake were based on the old, damageless version. Now that earthquake by itself can somewhat easily trigger his trait 2-3 times in a teamfight (possibly many, *many* times more if there are npc targets about such as minions, mercs, buildings, punisher shrines, etc.) there is a very real case to be made for it on many maps.

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12 minutes ago, Voltorocks said:

Thrall definitely has counters, no doubt about that. particularly if you draft him early without team comp support, he is very vulnerable to kiters like tracer as well as heroes with blinds who know to save it for windfury.  I don't think any of that invalidates Thrall as a pick, or even as a high tier pick; given a lack of these harder counters (or a comp that makes up for them) he can do a *lot* of work.

 

worth mentioning in this thread, as recently as a few posts ago opinions of earthquake were based on the old, damageless version. Now that earthquake by itself can somewhat easily trigger his trait 2-3 times in a teamfight (possibly many, *many* times more if there are npc targets about such as minions, mercs, buildings, punisher shrines, etc.) there is a very real case to be made for it on many maps.

Just realized it probably looked like I was arguing against Thrall being good there. I intended that to be a separate post from the ones above it. I wasn't trying to say that Thrall is a weak choice, I just think Tracer can counter him well. Also, I don't keep up with Thrall and his builds, but if Earthquake now triggers his trait, he can get burst heals that are incredibly powerful on maps like Infernal Shrines, Haunted Mines, etc.

Edited by Niteshadow

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On 12/15/2016 at 7:27 PM, Niteshadow said:

if Earthquake now triggers his trait, he can get burst heals that are incredibly powerful on maps like Infernal Shrines, Haunted Mines, etc.

Yeah, it's crazy good in the right situation. I think EQ is almost must take on those maps as well as garden of terror as it is just incredibly strong.

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Lok'thar Ogar! 

It is my pleasure to announce that the Thrall guide has been updated and converted to the new format! Let us know in the comments section how you like it! 

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First, you say wind shears takes too much time to get decent value. Then you say wind shear is too important a talent to be ignored and that you cannot emphasise enough how crucial the synergy between wind shear, grace of air and tempest fury is. 

So, take wind shear or not? Your guide suggests both to take and not to take, which contradict each other.

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4 hours ago, Guest Wind Shear said:

First, you say wind shears takes too much time to get decent value. Then you say wind shear is too important a talent to be ignored and that you cannot emphasise enough how crucial the synergy between wind shear, grace of air and tempest fury is. 

So, take wind shear or not? Your guide suggests both to take and not to take, which contradict each other.

Thanks for pointing this out!
As a rule of thumb, the Talent Build section is the most up-to-date. Sometimes our authors miss the descriptions during updates, especially if the descriptions are for talents that were not updated (in this case Stone WolvesStone Wolves and Tempest FuryTempest Fury).

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Hey everyone, 

I'm happy to inform you that the guide has been updated to the latest rework - enjoy! :)

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9 hours ago, KendricSwissh said:

Hey everyone, 

I'm happy to inform you that the guide has been updated to the latest rework - enjoy! :)

Hey! Thanks for the updates, that was fast. :)
That being said, I think the talents discussion section doesn't reflect the changes to lvl 20 Worldbreaker.

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5 hours ago, Guest Krabz said:

Hey! Thanks for the updates, that was fast. :)
That being said, I think the talents discussion section doesn't reflect the changes to lvl 20 Worldbreaker.

Thanks for pointing this out! I told Kendric about this issue, and an update should be on the way sometime soon.

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