5.4 Destruction Tips and Quirks

[Muoric 3]

I dare to say that, outside of getting 2 CBs in the first 10 seconds, you should really try to avoid using backdraft on CB. Things like Annihilate and Desecrate, if you're handling correctly, should not cause you to have to race against the clock to get your CB off. You work out the timing on when to do it. In the case of Desecrated Weapon (at least in the first two phases), you can be using your Circle and Gate to quickly be out of the way the moment he targets someone with it. This means no worrying about "crap I need the time to move out". For Annihilate, you shouldn't be casting CB so late into it that you will possibly have to move if he targets you. Wait until he's targeted somewhere that isn't you and that's when you start your CB, not when he's just finished the ability.

For annihilates I totally agree with you, but for the other stuff it's a matter of tactic. During p1 I'm almost constantly on the move going for the engineer and in p2 I'm moving out so we can place the desecrates where we want them. And after that we all stack in melee for both mind controls and whirlwinds. I might get a few uses out of circle, should actually do that next time, it's a good idea. Gateway would cause more harm with people accidentally ending up where they're not supposed to be so it's not really viable imo.

[Deamux 4]

I should mind when i cast chaos bolt, because its rarely my highest damage resource. So Weakauras looks like the right thing. I'm gonna use  Lockybalboa's weakauras string. Altough i still have a question, how do you know if a proc is big enough to cast a chaos bolt? 

 

My armory; http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/magtheridon/Deamux/advanced

[Oldtrout 7]

Your only big proc is PBI, so you'll just want to dump all your embers when it procs, and you'll usually have DS up at that time too. For the rest of the time you'll want to be casting once at 3.5 embers, unless it's a fight like Nazgrim where there are times you'll get bonus damage.

 

And on multi-target fights you should be using havoc + CB on cooldown, regardless of procs (though you can delay havoc a bit if you know for certain that you're about to get PBI or DS up), unless you're intending to havoc + shadowburn.

 

I don't think lightweave / jade spirit are really significant enough for you to worry about getting your chaos bolts in.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Oldtrout

[Muoric 3]

In general to know if a proc is big enough is a matter of getting a feel for how many embers you create. Then start ticking off your procs starting from the biggest one and how many embers you can use during one. If you create enough embers not to be able to use them during trinket procs and ds, start thinking of smaller ones (4set/cloak/weapon).

For PBI you want to have as many embers as possible since the proc is long enough that you can almost always use them all. Especially since it lines up with ds so nicely. Since you don't have anything else, I'd actually check the smaller procs also if I were you, especially when you are at 3+ embers. It's marginal, but it still helps.

[Deamux 4]

Your only big proc is PBI, so you'll just want to dump all your embers when it procs, and you'll usually have DS up at that time too. For the rest of the time you'll want to be casting once at 3.5 embers, unless it's a fight like Nazgrim where there are times you'll get bonus damage.

 

And on multi-target fights you should be using havoc + CB on cooldown, regardless of procs (though you can delay havoc a bit if you know for certain that you're about to get PBI or DS up), unless you're intending to havoc + shadowburn.

 

I don't think lightweave / jade spirit are really significant enough for you to worry about getting your chaos bolts in.

 

 

In general to know if a proc is big enough is a matter of getting a feel for how many embers you create. Then start ticking off your procs starting from the biggest one and how many embers you can use during one. If you create enough embers not to be able to use them during trinket procs and ds, start thinking of smaller ones (4set/cloak/weapon).

For PBI you want to have as many embers as possible since the proc is long enough that you can almost always use them all. Especially since it lines up with ds so nicely. Since you don't have anything else, I'd actually check the smaller procs also if I were you, especially when you are at 3+ embers. It's marginal, but it still helps.

 

Thank you both!

[Oldtrout 7]

And you should try and replace that shado-pan trinket asap

[Omaric 246]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vfzxyu6fpb4lta0b/sum/damageDone/?s=233&e=679

 

So robbed!  :(   5% boss health I believe from fitting in with the Asians.

 

Me:  Don't you worry 'bout those Reflections little darlin'.

 

Raid:  *swoon*

 

True story!

[Zilthy 36]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vfzxyu6fpb4lta0b/sum/damageDone/?s=233&e=679

 

So robbed!     5% boss health I believe from fitting in with the Asians.

 

Me:  Don't you worry 'bout those Reflections little darlin'.

 

Raid:  *swoon*

 

True story!

 

Grats, although this makes me sad, since I am struggling trying to figure out how to get my dps up on this fight in particular.

[Omaric 246]

Post up some logs and I can work through them.  Though I must admit that I do throw down quite a bit when the Reflections spawn.  It inflates my numbers a bit, but in 25 man I don't overkill them much when Havoc'ing off them to the boss.  Our tanks also got much better at grouping them up efficiently (DK AoE grip helps as well), so I'm able to do quite a bit of AoE damage sooner.

[Zilthy 36]

Well, there are a couple of things that I have done, and it's improving.  I know I need to improve:

 

1) Immolate uptime

 

2) Havoc.  I should have done that more, although I am giving up on trying to havoc / shadowburn the Currupted Fragments/Manifestations.  Our warriors burn them so flippin fast once in the 20% execute phase, it's too late to get in a shodownburn, so think I will use a havoc/chaos bolt on them from the start.

 

3) I seem to loose dps uptime when trying to get to a rift to eat it (Use burning rush) and wondering if there is a better way to approach those.

 

The one thing I am wondering about logs, is, how to tell how effectively havoc is being used.  Am I actually getting the hits in on those, or am I missing?

 

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z2l3kz172q0v0vqb/details/89/?s=9291&e=9759

Edited November 15, 2013 by Zilthy

[Omaric 246]

Well, apparently my Havoc usage was pretty weak that attempt, but here is something you can use to check:

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vfzxyu6fpb4lta0b/details/22/?s=233&e=679

 

Click your name for the fight and go to the "Buffs Cast" tab.  Click the "#" to the right of Havoc.  That will populate the duration/time you had the buff up, and also when you were using them.  The brighter green area, *I believe*, is where they're actually used.  So you'll noticed that it's lighter at the start of the duration when I pop all 3 charges off.  At some times you can see the DPS rise, but others it isn't as noticeable (probably due to no crits).

 

You can also use the "#" with multiple effects simultaneously.  So you could get Expanded Mind up there and see if it's lining up with your Havoc usage, which could explain spikes in damage.  There are lots of cool uses for that feature within WoL. 

 

Unfortunately I can't help you with Execute sniping Warriors, haha.  Latency?  Generally though, SB is pretty damn good at sniping.

[Zilthy 36]

Ooh.... that '#' is cool!  TY!

[Omaric 246]

For sure.  Zagam showed that to me.  I've been using it quite a bit to help explain inconsistencies.  I like to use it to make sure I'm lining up my buffs whenever possible (PBI/DS) and seeing if my DPS is actually rising.  If it isn't during that time I can usually conclude that I wasn't pooling Embers properly.

 

I actually just had a thought on fights where Havoc isn't really necessary.  If you get all your procs up and have Embers pooled you can cast Havoc as a WoL indicator to show that, yes, at that exact time I was firing off back to back Chaos Bolts.  If you failed to pool Embers (which you shouldn't, but it happens) you can pass on using Havoc to help you know how often you need to stop being dumb.

[Zagam 1,983]

ALL HAIL THE #, the single greatest unknown tool in World of Logs

 

EDIT: Fuck, this was my 3334th post.  I missed the 3333th one...

[Muoric 3]

Unfortunately I can't help you with Execute sniping Warriors, haha.  Latency?  Generally though, SB is pretty damn good at sniping.

At least I suffer from UI taking pretty long to realise the mob is <20% and letting me use SB. And with 2 warriors + at worst us 4 locks, any time lost before using SB means that the mob is long gone before UI agrees that the mob is in SB range. I think a couple weeks of farm and I'll try to talk with our warriors + other locks to leave adds alone so each week one of us can get nice numbers :P

[Khaos 5]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/vfzxyu6fpb4lta0b/sum/damageDone/?s=233&e=679

 

So robbed!     5% boss health I believe from fitting in with the Asians.

 

Me:  Don't you worry 'bout those Reflections little darlin'.

 

Raid:  *swoon*

 

True story!

 

i'd call that padding 0.1!

 

 

 

ALL HAIL THE #, the single greatest unknown tool in World of Logs

 

EDIT: Fuck, this was my 3334th post.  I missed the 3333th one...

 

You should make a WoL guide!

Edited November 16, 2013 by Khaos

[PhilColins 9]

Heroic Thok progression:

 

This might be a little late but for what it's worth.

 

I'm running destro for the bats and I'm having a lot of fun with it. In p1, we have 2 groups roughly 10 yards apart, one near his face but not in front and the other near his feet. We take the stacks to 27-28 then stack up, take it to 29 then phase.

During p1, I glyphed Unending Resolve so it's on the 2min CD. I pop it usually around 12 stacks or when I get good procs (KTT + anything else) so I can dump my CB's really quick and it'll be back up for bats later. I recommend to set up a WA string or TMW to let you know just how much time you have. Because of latency issues, I'm using backdraft to get CB's off in time so I don't cap embers as I Incererate weave.

P2 is the same as P1, just don't stand in front of him. I personally stay close to the jailer and use burning rush to keep Thok in range. Immolate the jailer and pay close attention to his health. As soon as he drops 20%, cleave some SB's on Thok with Havoc. This is an easy 3M damage (usually DS/PBI is proc'ing here) to cleave onto him.

 

Back to p1 means back to Incinerate weaving. I'm assigned to stun first for the bats, so as soon as a DK grips them, I toss out Shadowburn -> Fire and Brimstone + Pot (macro'd) -> conflag x2 -> Unending Resolve -> Inc spam. They're usually around 20% when I'm just finishing my backdrafted Incinerates. Havoc Thok and SB cleave your hearts out. We usually phase with 1 or 2 up that are almost dead. Phase usually happens around 9 or 10 screeches.

 

Back to p2 normal stuff except I'm on the opposite side cleaving SB off jailer onto Thok. When p2 is over, we stack back up and repeat p1 stuff. Tossing out Unending Resolve around 12 stacks again with procs and such.

 

Phasing into p2 from the third p3, the Yeti seems to always come from behind me, so make sure you're really sticking close to the walls when you're tunneling Thok. When p2 is over, we stack up in the bottom left corner on a marker and move when fire is under us. Usually phases pretty quick.

 

Lowest % is 11% and this is when the majority of top DPS were dead going into "stack up for fire" phase.

 

This is coming from a 25m perspective with only 2 locks in the group at the moment and 3 pallys (thanks Devo aura!)

 

Hope this helps.

[Annoroth 5]

If I'm coming into a boss (Immerseus P1, Norushen after test realm etc.) with 2 charges of conflag, no immo up and 40 emberbits, what's my priority there?

 

I've been torn between launching a Chaos Bolt, then throwing up Immo and using conflag, but the basic priority is Immo -> no conflag capping -> CB. What should I do?

[Omaric 246]

I'd launch a CB first, buffs or no buffs.  Don't waste Emberbits.

[Annoroth 5]

I'd launch a CB first, buffs or no buffs.  Don't waste Emberbits.

 

Thanks for the tip. Honestly, it's a bit weird to read about people you interact with here co-RLing on another blog. But as an outsider, it's a really interesting recollection of events. 

[Zagam 1,983]

I've been torn between launching a Chaos Bolt, then throwing up Immo and using conflag, but the basic priority is Immo -> no conflag capping -> CB. What should I do?

Don't let yourself get that many Embers.  Best solution.  I can't see a reason why you'd ever get to 4 Embers and be in that situation unless you just got done unloading a barrage of Shadowburns.  Through normal rotation, you should never be in this situation.

[Oldtrout 7]

I'm almost always at 4 embers when Immerseus P1 restarts and coming out of the Norushen test realm (and Galakras P2, Nazgrim coming out of defensive - heck, there are a lot of situations it occurs). Unless I really need to keep moving to get in range of a healer / out of the blind hatred, I'll sit there and first cast a chaos bolt, then immolate, then conflag and carry on with normal.

 

Don't know what you guys think but I reckon being at 4 embers is worse than not having immo up, or having 2 charges of conflag just sitting there. But maybe conflag should be used ahead of immo?

Edited November 22, 2013 by Oldtrout

[Annoroth 5]

Don't let yourself get that many Embers.  Best solution.  I can't see a reason why you'd ever get to 4 Embers and be in that situation unless you just got done unloading a barrage of Shadowburns.  Through normal rotation, you should never be in this situation.

 

Usually when it happens, it's when I'm coming out of Norushen's test realm (and shadowburning like crazy) or going into a two-drake pack on Galakras, (also shadowburning hard). It's a rare occurence, but when it happens, I just wanted to be sure.

 

I'll launch the CB before doing a conflag -> immo -> incinerate chain. 

Edited November 25, 2013 by Annoroth

[ertai 0]

About embers management;

What's your open on specific encounters like galakras Heroic or shamans?

For galakras i preshot rain of fire on the spot where there will be placed then use my ember with fire and brinstom to apply immolate on all target with one spell but i have no ember left to spam incinerate with fire and brinstone.

So i have to wait a few seconds before an ember fills and to be able to spam incinerate under fire and brinstone effect.

 

Is there an optimal open for these types of fight?

Is rain of fire really necessary on galakras heroic?

Do you have tips for this encounter? (for trying to rank)

Edited November 25, 2013 by ertai

[Zagam 1,983]

About embers management;

What's your open on specific encounters like galakras Heroic or shamans?

For galakras i preshot rain of fire on the spot where there will be placed then use my ember with fire and brinstom to apply immolate on all target with one spell but i have no ember left to spam incinerate with fire and brinstone.

So i have to wait a few seconds before an ember fills and to be able to spam incinerate under fire and brinstone effect.

 

Is there an optimal open for these types of fight?

Is rain of fire really necessary on galakras heroic?

Do you have tips for this encounter? (for trying to rank)

I think I've voiced my opinion that you should never apply FnB:Immolate if you have less than two embers.  This drops you out of your AoE.  Your first shot with FnB should be Conflagrate x2 to get your Embers built up.  Then FnB Immolate and Incinerate spam.

 

I don't encourage tactics for trying to rank.  Those are for you to figure out on your own or network with other top parsing Warlocks.  Ranking typically comes from incredibly good RNG and favorable raid conditions such as no one else using their execute or switching to adds so you can Shadowburn snipe.  This is in general for all fights.  The emphasis on these forums is to help you understand how to maximize your Warlock to defeat encounters.