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Feral Druid 7.3

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On 20/09/2016 at 11:04 AM, Guest Anubis said:

Is it normal to feel incredibly energy starved with Savage Roar and Bloodtalons taken? When Berserk is not available, my AOE damage seems pitiful. I'll get a Thrash and a few Swipes off until I'm just watching myself auto-attacking since my energy can't keep up.

Even on single target encounters like bosses, I find myself in situations where adds are spawning, but Tiger's Fury is already on CD. I'll move onto the adds but can't even get a bleed rolling because my energy is depleted from maintaining Savage Roar and Rake/Moonfire/Rip on the boss. So I just end up auto-attacking again.

It's frustrating to be in these situations, and the DPS meters show that my damage isn't keeping up with others. I understand that Bloodtalons indirectly helps energy gain by requiring an extra GCD for Healing Touch (off Predatory Swiftness), but this isn't enough time versus the amount of energy I'm expending. Would Soul of the Forest not be more viable than Savage Roar for dungeons?

Someone else was also saying how they would sit in Bear and use Thrash/Swipe for AOE because of the lack of energy cost. This doesn't seem particularly ideal given that you can't use Rake or Rip in Bear and have to waste a global to shift out, but I can see why they would if their energy simply can't keep up.

Another option to address energy starvation is Moment of Clarity, but it's too RNG dependent to be reliable, and Bloodtalons is a periodic 40% increase to two melee abilities. Therefore, to address the energy issue, I can see Soul of the Forest as a good alternative to Savage Roar. I dislike not having the 25% damage buff from it, but I'm just not enjoying having so much GCD downtime during sustained combat. Savage Roar just feels like it's more adequate for windows of burst rather than prolonged combat.

Anyone else feel similar or care to share their experiences? Am I doing something wrong here, or is it normal to be waiting around so much for energy, just auto-attacking priority adds?

You'll definitely feel the energy starvation as Feral, yes. The goal is less to fill your GCDs at all times and more to pool up resources to increase the strength when you eventually do spend them, and due to that resource limitation is really impactful and will affect the feel of the spec.

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12 hours ago, superbikemike said:

Hey Blainie,

  What are you thoughts on using Blood scent, KOJ, & Blood talons? I armored a bunch of top druids yesterday, and it seems to be what they were using. I used it last night. Didn't seem bad.Is moon fire critical for dps?

Blood Scent in M+ is powerful, but it's dependant on Keystones. For example, with a Bolstering Keystone taking Blood Scent will serve you best because you're going to be doing extended AoE pulls, whilst in say, a Teeming keystone Predator will be even better because the instances of getting Tiger's Fury resets will ramp up significantly. Lunar Inspiration is a good go-between if you know you'll have large groups that will survive a long time, but with M+ you'll rarely see that.

The guide is very much in a state of leaning toward raiding because in the past that was the go-to content type, but in future I suspect there'll be more references to dungeons with them being a content path for players, thanks for mentioning it though!

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Guest Druid

Thank you Blainie, i have 52% mastery and 32% crit. Is that ok ?

I understand from here that i should choose savage roar in favor of incarnation.

Should we not spam shred that much and just focus on keeping the rip,rake,savage up? and , when possible fer bite ?

I raided last night with incarnation and i had a relative low dps overall due to the aoe fights.

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2 hours ago, Guest Druid said:

Thank you Blainie, i have 52% mastery and 32% crit. Is that ok ?

I understand from here that i should choose savage roar in favor of incarnation.

Should we not spam shred that much and just focus on keeping the rip,rake,savage up? and , when possible fer bite ?

I raided last night with incarnation and i had a relative low dps overall due to the aoe fights.

Yes, that sounds fine, just keep stacking them!

Spamming buttons isn't really ideal as Feral. I'd suggest checking out Wordup's comment from above, it explains this perfectly:

Quote

You'll definitely feel the energy starvation as Feral, yes. The goal is less to fill your GCDs at all times and more to pool up resources to increase the strength when you eventually do spend them, and due to that resource limitation is really impactful and will affect the feel of the spec.

Your goal is not to simply shred as much as possible. It is to hit slightly less frequently, but when you do hit, hit HARD.

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Guest Ziji

Blood Scent is simming higher for me than Moonfire, any ideas as to why that might be?

 

Is it smart to Pandemic SR / Rip well above the thresh holds to ensure that they do not fall off?

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5 hours ago, Guest Ziji said:

Blood Scent is simming higher for me than Moonfire, any ideas as to why that might be?

 

Is it smart to Pandemic SR / Rip well above the thresh holds to ensure that they do not fall off?

Blood Scent simming higher could be due to APL, what program are you using?

Casting SR well above the pandemic threshhold is not ideal. Rip is very context specific as well, if you are overwriting a buffed Rip with a weaker one, I'd avoid doing so entirely.

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Guest Ziji

using Simcraft.

 

It really isnt worth keeping your rip as high as possible duration wise with Ashamane's Rip being a thing? If i dont refresh SR at 12-14 while rip is at 12-14 ( Instead choosing to FB ) I do not maintain the buff, I have to choose at that point between refreshing rip at pandemic 5 seconds or refreshing SR, whilst losing atleast 1 of them. 

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20 hours ago, Guest Ziji said:

using Simcraft.

 

It really isnt worth keeping your rip as high as possible duration wise with Ashamane's Rip being a thing? If i dont refresh SR at 12-14 while rip is at 12-14 ( Instead choosing to FB ) I do not maintain the buff, I have to choose at that point between refreshing rip at pandemic 5 seconds or refreshing SR, whilst losing atleast 1 of them. 

Will leave @wordup to continue this discussion with you. Not good enough to do so myself!

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Generic comment being mass posted over the comments threads guys.

We are aware of the changes and our writers are working hard to update the guides to suit what has changed. Currently, there is a lot of work still to be done and it's unlikely that every guide will be up-to-date immediately. Expect a flood of updates over the coming days that will answer all of your questions about what is now best after X change, in time for the reset next week.

Thanks for your understanding and patience.

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On 24/09/2016 at 1:47 AM, Guest Ziji said:

using Simcraft.

 

It really isnt worth keeping your rip as high as possible duration wise with Ashamane's Rip being a thing? If i dont refresh SR at 12-14 while rip is at 12-14 ( Instead choosing to FB ) I do not maintain the buff, I have to choose at that point between refreshing rip at pandemic 5 seconds or refreshing SR, whilst losing atleast 1 of them. 

Consuming a Rip early is very energy inefficient (and in some cases will result in you overwriting a more buffed one with a less buffed). In situations where you can see they will clash in expiration, I'd lean harder toward refreshing Savage Roar than Rip.

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Guest Aboni

Am I the only one having HUGE problems maintaining a stable rotation? I'm using the recommended build + rotation, but I just can't keep savage roar, rip, rake and moonfire up at the same time consitently. Any help or tips are highly appreciated! 

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5 minutes ago, Guest Aboni said:

Am I the only one having HUGE problems maintaining a stable rotation? I'm using the recommended build + rotation, but I just can't keep savage roar, rip, rake and moonfire up at the same time consitently. Any help or tips are highly appreciated! 

If you're really struggling I'd say switch over to Blood Scent for a while, and practice the Rip/Savage Roar juggling first.

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Guest Lana

Can we go back to the question if Bloodtalons is the better choice than Brutal Slash.

Now that the Raid has opened on the Official Servers, I personally feel that the feral lacks the cleave damage needed for multiple boss encounters. 

Any thought about switching BT for BS for the Emerald Dream?

AS for the Single Target DPS; I'm kind of satisfied with it. Still not comparable with some other classes but very stable.

 

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3 hours ago, Guest Lana said:

Can we go back to the question if Bloodtalons is the better choice than Brutal Slash.

Now that the Raid has opened on the Official Servers, I personally feel that the feral lacks the cleave damage needed for multiple boss encounters. 

Any thought about switching BT for BS for the Emerald Dream?

AS for the Single Target DPS; I'm kind of satisfied with it. Still not comparable with some other classes but very stable.

Bloodtalons is still much better. If you need strong burst AoE, take BS, but BT is better on most fights. This might change in this week's patch, but for now, BT wins.

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4 hours ago, Guest Lana said:

Can we go back to the question if Bloodtalons is the better choice than Brutal Slash.

Now that the Raid has opened on the Official Servers, I personally feel that the feral lacks the cleave damage needed for multiple boss encounters. 

Any thought about switching BT for BS for the Emerald Dream?

AS for the Single Target DPS; I'm kind of satisfied with it. Still not comparable with some other classes but very stable.

 

 

Brutal Slash has limited applications in EN given that as a raid it's very ST focused with a modicum of cleave. BT works just as well for cleave allowing for multi-dot Rakes at the least, and potential multi-Rips as well. Where BS shines is burst AoE and no fight really requires that from a class that has to spec into it, given there are a good number that already have it in the base package.

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Guest Snap shotting

Snap Shotting is not longer apart of wow. There is only 1 dot in all of wow that does not snapshot and that is Unstable Affliction and instead of time increase it stacks in intensity.

Waiting to refresh rip and rake during tiger's fury is a not something you should do because you want to snapshot, the dots dynamically change when any buffs are applied.

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2 hours ago, Guest Snap shotting said:

Snap Shotting is not longer apart of wow. There is only 1 dot in all of wow that does not snapshot and that is Unstable Affliction and instead of time increase it stacks in intensity.

Waiting to refresh rip and rake during tiger's fury is a not something you should do because you want to snapshot, the dots dynamically change when any buffs are applied.

Feral druid still snapshots. They are the only class except Aff Lock with UA that it still happens for.

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11 hours ago, Guest Snap shotting said:

Snap Shotting is not longer apart of wow. There is only 1 dot in all of wow that does not snapshot and that is Unstable Affliction and instead of time increase it stacks in intensity.

Waiting to refresh rip and rake during tiger's fury is a not something you should do because you want to snapshot, the dots dynamically change when any buffs are applied.

As Blainie said above, it still exists in some cases. Feral still recieves "snapshot" effects via certain short term buffs (most importantly Tiger's Fury, Bloodtalons and Savage Roar). These flat damage increases will carry over on the DoT even if the buff falls off while the Bleed is ticking, which means that playing to them is absolutely crucial for Feral given how many flat bonuses you can recieve.

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Guest Guest Vorkin

Hello Everyone.

I got a question about the stat priority of the Feral Druid.

I got 32 % crit and 59 % mastery at the moment and i used simulationcraft to simulate dps on a patchwerk fight.

Simulationcraft gives me a Stat Priority looking like this:

Agi 1.0 > AP 0.98 > Crit 0.77 > Haste 0.69 > Vers 0.63 > Mastery 0.58

I am just curious cause this looks very different from the normal stat priority (i know it is just for my atm stats and gear) but i dont know what to do now. Should i just keep stacking crit and mastery or should i try to get some gear with for example crit/haste or crit/vers and ignore mastery for now?

 

It would be really great if you could help me out here.

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On 10/3/2016 at 2:12 PM, Guest Guest Vorkin said:

It would be really great if you could help me out here.

Can you show me your armoury? I want to check something before giving advice here.

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Guest Spartyjr

I'm pretty sure Blood Scent is better than Lunar Inspiration even in single target dps situations. I did some testing on target dummies and I can say confidently that Blood Scent will increase the crit chance of bleeds ticks by 10%, which means you'll gain more damage from Rake/ Rip which makes up roughly 60% of our damage. Not to mention to extra combo points you gain from the extra crit chance.

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Guest Guest Vorkin
1 hour ago, Blainie said:

Is your SimCraft up-to-date?

I am getting:

Agi 1.00 > Vers 0.65 > Mastery 0.64 > Crit 0.62 > Haste 0.53 for you. 

So basically, Agi > Vers >= Mastery >= Crit > Haste

Welle i recently got two New items Since i Posted my simmed Priority so it most likely Changed.

But Would you reccommend following the simmed stat priority You posted above Or stay with the priority in the guide?

Thank You beforehand.

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20 hours ago, Guest Spartyjr said:

I'm pretty sure Blood Scent is better than Lunar Inspiration even in single target dps situations. I did some testing on target dummies and I can say confidently that Blood Scent will increase the crit chance of bleeds ticks by 10%, which means you'll gain more damage from Rake/ Rip which makes up roughly 60% of our damage. Not to mention to extra combo points you gain from the extra crit chance.

This is only true if you can't keep Moonfire up. Since it's a ranged spell, this shouldn't be a problem unless you have dreadful gear.

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