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Feral Druid 7.3

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On 10/17/2016 at 7:42 PM, Guest DeadlyElixir said:

I use Icy Veins to know the stats to focus on but I use ask mr robot to weigh upgrades, I'm having a big issue right now. AMR recently changed their stat priority and it's very different from icy now.  Icy veins does not provide a weight break down (like saying crit is .63 and etc) so I can fix it to match. AMR also affects the pawn addon so now that is saying different stats too. Since icy hasnt updated im very confused and not sure what to do. If AMR is right that really sucks cause it is a huge change in stat priority. 

Can I get some help here.

Unfortunately, I can't really tell you why AMR have changed their priorities. Weights can be found here:

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/feral-druid-pve-dps-gear-legendaries-best-in-slot

These are general weights, so to get ones that fit your character properly, you need to use simcraft.

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On 10/19/2016 at 2:09 PM, Guest stat weighting wrong said:

Sim craft does not agree with the listed stat weighting for my 850 gear level using mostly crit/mastery on gear (by a significant amount). Quite annoying that I assumed crit mastery was still by deign since thats what drops, thats what this guide says.

That's because the listed stat priority and weights are general lists. They will not be perfect for your character, they are simply a guideline to follow if you do not know how to properly sim your own character. It's not possible to have a perfect priority and weight for every gear setup. That's essentially what Simcraft is for.

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On 10/21/2016 at 2:56 PM, Razorclaw said:

This guide has not been updated for one month.

There have been numerous updates that can be seen in the changelog on the front page:

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/feral-druid-pve-dps-guide

As for the balanced stat priority, please feel free to read the section under the priority:

Quote

When considering these stat priorities, be aware that Feral has a good amount of synergy between each of them, so going too far into one direction can in some cases have negative effects. Try to generally aim for Mastery and Critical Strike, and have a small amount of Haste to smooth out the rotation, or to help when using Brutal Slash Icon Brutal Slashbuilds.

This should tie in with what you are saying.

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On 10/21/2016 at 8:12 PM, Guest Pheno said:

In the racial sims, it shows shadowmeld upping dps by 7k. Can one use shadowmeld-->prowl in raids?

As stated above, it's just that shadowmeld enables the stealth modifier on abilities. 

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On 10/28/2016 at 11:10 PM, Guest Twofangs said:

When is the bis list for feral being updated?

What do you feel needs updating?

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Guest Twofangs
On 10/31/2016 at 0:10 AM, Blainie said:

What do you feel needs updating?

Well the new kara trinkets are really good.

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I'd like to ask something. When you refresh / reapply the duration of rake and/or rip...does it refresh their respective dot based on the damage increase factors you had when you first applied them? or based on your current base damage increase factors? (if any available of course!)

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4 minutes ago, Vaizard said:

I'd like to ask something. When you refresh / reapply the duration of rake and/or rip...does it refresh their respective dot based on the damage increase factors you had when you first applied them? or based on your current base damage increase factors? (if any available of course!)

I'm not 100% sure how FB refreshed rips work as far as snapshotting, but for rake and normal refreshed rip it works as such: refreshing works to re-snapshot the damage bonuses to rake/rip, aka, if you refresh them without a buff up that they had the last time you applied/refreshed them, they lose that buff and vice versa.

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16 minutes ago, Orthios said:

I'm not 100% sure how FB refreshed rips work as far as snapshotting, but for rake and normal refreshed rip it works as such: refreshing works to re-snapshot the damage bonuses to rake/rip, aka, if you refresh them without a buff up that they had the last time you applied/refreshed them, they lose that buff and vice versa.

Thanks a lot mate... If anyone knows ,with certainty, about how refreshing/reapplying rip with FB works... let us know please! Thanks again...

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Curious about the target dummy/sim craft approach to the guide rotation.  With the recommended talent tree you basically have to keep 4 timed events/bleeds up and runny at all times (moonfire, rake, rip and although not a bleed/dot still a timed event savage roar).

My times are:

Rake 12 sec, Moonfire is 14, Rip is 16 and Savage Roar is 24.  These will line up and end up dropping off at exactly the same time, specifically Rip and Savage Roar as shown in the rotation will line up at the second rotation of Savage Roar meaning you must choose Rip and then Savage Roar is down until you get 5 more points.  While managing energy consumption, movement, aoe and other raid/dungeon random damage, how is it possible top keep a consistent rotation?

If you let even one bleed/dot/savage roar drop for any time you see a HUGE dps drop because of it.  Now for the really strange, you also would need to keep these ups on potentially 2-3 targets at the same time??  I only have 2 eyes and 8 fingers and frankly after beating on the dummy and seeing only 15k dps difference between three variants described in the guide, why is the optimum the most complex and least likely to actually keep going for an entire boss fight the recommended???

I would doubt that even a minority of players can keep all of whats required rotating.  I am sure their are a few but is the guide written for those few or am I seriously missing something here?

Edited by Twiddles

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@Twiddles The way I try and play around the issue you mention is by timing the SR downtime with those small periods that your bleeds won't need refreshing yet. When I see SR is about to run out and Rip needs refreshing too then I'll try to refresh all of Rip, Rake & Moonfire before that SR ends so you'll have another 12 sec to get SR up before the next Rake refresh, minimizing the DPS loss of that SR downtime.

Having a look at my logs from last week (LFR though), there's not that much downtime: In a 3min nythendra fight all 3 bleeds had around 96% upkeep with SR at 90% so it's really not all that problematic either.

Edited by PaasHaaS

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Guest Untaimed

I have a small dilemma, assuming the relic section of the guide, when it talks about relics being 10 item levels higher than other ones, is referring to the top "Item Level" label (outlined in red in attached picture), and not the lower "Item Levels" label.

Which one would people go for in this scenario? My other 2 relics are both Rake increases as well (so I have 3 in total).

 

 dilemna.png

dilemna.png

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Alright, I have a few questions... First of all, is there a "sweet" CP amount you should use in order to refresh SR, or should you just do it at 1 or at max CP at all times?

2ndly, if you snapshot your dots with damage increase buffs, shouldn't you normally try and let them tick out or closest to ticking out before refreshing each one of them accordingly? for maximum dmg / dps that is?

3rdly, let's say you screw up and mistakenly use Rip on a target but with less than 5 CPs....is it worth and/or recommended even, to immediately try to refresh the duration as soon as possible with maximum CPs?

Edited by Vaizard

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Guest CmwCaelen1

In the 4.3.3 section it gives the Resto Druid Omen of Clarity tooltip instead of the Feral Druid one. Just a little heads up.

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On 3.11.2016 at 5:12 PM, Vaizard said:

Thanks a lot mate... If anyone knows ,with certainty, about how refreshing/reapplying rip with FB works... let us know please! Thanks again...

It applies to Rip as Orthios described it.

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On 4.11.2016 at 6:34 AM, Twiddles said:

I would doubt that even a minority of players can keep all of whats required rotating.  I am sure their are a few but is the guide written for those few or am I seriously missing something here?

The guides are written to basically show the maximum output setup that a spec can achieve in a raiding environment. If we were to post one of the easier, but worse setups, we would get plenty of comments telling us that we are wrong. Feral Druid is known for being extremely difficult to play currently; it's definitely not a spec to play if you're not ready to play something very complex right now.

One of the reasons why it is so difficult is because of what you have described. You have to constantly be thinking much further ahead than most other specs, because you will have so many conflicts in renewing buffs and debuffs. You need to think ahead, sometimes even refreshing early to ensure you maintain some of the buffs. Choosing which ones to refresh early and those not is often dictated by our priority rotation list. Remembering which debuffs have snapshotted is also a big part of DPS as a feral.

I don't want to come off as sounding elitist or whatever, but Feral is just one of the harder specs to perform well as right now. To get the same output, you need to do a lot more than some of the other specs out there currently.

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On 6.11.2016 at 8:10 AM, Guest Untaimed said:

I have a small dilemma, assuming the relic section of the guide, when it talks about relics being 10 item levels higher than other ones, is referring to the top "Item Level" label (outlined in red in attached picture), and not the lower "Item Levels" label.

Which one would people go for in this scenario? My other 2 relics are both Rake increases as well (so I have 3 in total).

When the guide describes it as "item levels of stats", it is referring to the item level of the weapon it is placed in. I'd keep your current RF one, for example.

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On 6.11.2016 at 7:22 PM, Vaizard said:

Alright, I have a few questions...

  1. Depends on the current point in the rotation and fight. Ideally, you'll want those big SRs of 5 CP. If you are about to see multiple debuffs drop and you need a fast SR to snapshot, then you SR on whatever you can, pop your debuffs and then continue. It's all about deciding in the moment what has to happen over the next 10 seconds.
  2. As before, it depends. If you NEED to reapply due to the next portion of your rotation, and you have the sufficient buffs currently to snapshot once more, you can override it. It all depends on what buffs you have currently and what is happening next.
  3. Yes, assuming nothing else needs doing (another debuff/buff is about to fall off). Having a 2-CP Rip ticking and refreshing Rake is better than letting Rake fall off, having a 2-CP Rip ticking and then trying to rush to a 5-CP Rip rather than refreshing Rake is worse.

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11 hours ago, Guest CmwCaelen1 said:

In the 4.3.3 section it gives the Resto Druid Omen of Clarity tooltip instead of the Feral Druid one. Just a little heads up.

Will note it down, thanks!

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Guest Fuzzypaws

The stat wight on feral says haste is the worst one, although, on trinket simulations WQ haste trinket is listed as a better choice than the versatility and mastery ones, why is that?

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On 22.11.2016 at 5:14 PM, Guest Fuzzypaws said:

The stat wight on feral says haste is the worst one, although, on trinket simulations WQ haste trinket is listed as a better choice than the versatility and mastery ones, why is that?

There should be a newly updated simulation chart being posted very soon since Wordup has done some re-testing. It looks like Haste is much lower than it currently is, so check back for the new chart and you'll hopefully see a slightly more up-to-date version!

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On 22/11/2016 at 4:14 PM, Guest Fuzzypaws said:

The stat wight on feral says haste is the worst one, although, on trinket simulations WQ haste trinket is listed as a better choice than the versatility and mastery ones, why is that?

This was a mis-step on my part, the original trinket sims I did leading into the Karazhan patch there was a bug in SimulationCraft that was breaking the Feral module (which I had noted but from my own mistake didn't keep up with to re-iterate on it). I've since updated it and the front page should be pushed asap, for reference the image in question containing updated trinkets is linked below:

 

 

Feral Trinkets Sim.png

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Guest Opener with Leg Ring

does the opener change if you have Chatoyant Signet ?

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Guest NewToFeral

What does it mean when the guide says that moonfire can be "safely refreshed" with 4.2 secs remaining (same with the other feral dots)?

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3 hours ago, Guest NewToFeral said:

What does it mean when the guide says that moonfire can be "safely refreshed" with 4.2 secs remaining (same with the other feral dots)?

DoTs have a pandemic effect to them.  That is, you can refresh them and the new duration will be up to 30% higher than the baseline is (if you refresh above 30% of the baseline duration, then you effectively waste the difference between whatever the time remaining was and 30% of the baseline, whereas refreshing below 30% you don't waste anything, but you don't gain as much additional duration).

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