Marksmanship Hunter 7.3

[Azortharion 60]

I mean, sure, you're correct if you just look at the order in which they are listed in the string, rather than their assigned number. T_T

[Guest Dienekes]

Ah I pasted the entire RAW Paste Data not just the Marksman

( Pawn: v1: "Azor-Marksmanship": CritRating=0.71, Agility=1, HasteRating=0.73, MasteryRating=0.97, Versatility=0.72, Dps=3.24, RangedDps=3.24 )

( Pawn: v1: "Azor-BeastMastery": CritRating=0.63, Agility=1, HasteRating=0.7, MasteryRating=0.65, Versatility=0.67, Dps=1.07, RangedDps=1.07 )

( Pawn: v1: "Azor-Survival": CritRating=0.51, Agility=1, HasteRating=0.42, MasteryRating=0.29, Versatility=0.6, Dps=1, MeleeDps=1 )" and

8 minutes ago, Azortharion said:

I mean, sure, you're correct if you just look at the order in which they are listed in the string, rather than their assigned number. T_T

 

[Bertoga 2]

With Crit falling out of favor in Legion, what race will be best for MM ? Would greatly appreciate a racial sim for MM and BM

Edited July 27, 2016 by Bertoga

[Guest Azarith]

It might just be me being stupid, but I find the phrasing in the guide very confusing.

In particular i'm confused about these 2 things:

1.

Cast  Marked Shot when it is available, but only if you will not be able to cast another  Aimed Shot before the currently active  Vulnerable debuff expires, or if Vulnerable is not present on the target already.

Should I interpret this as:

"Only use Maked Shot if:

• Vulnerable has less then 2 sec left on target (not enough time to cast another Aimed Shot)
• I won't have enough focus to cast aimed shot before Vulnerable fades
• If Vulnerable it is not present at all"

?

2.

• If you are using the  Sidewinders talent, you should only cast it if  Marking Targets is active, as indicated by a spell effect around your character. You should also keep it from ever reaching 2 charges, and you should be prepared to use it without Marking Targets active to keep this from happening. You should also not generally cast it until you have 60 focus.

 

Should I interpret this as:

"Only use sidewinders if:

• you have the Marking Targets buff and your target does not have hunter's Mark debuff
• I have <= 60 Focus
• Sidewinders has 2 charges and everything else is unavailable"

?

[Azortharion 60]

Your interpretations are all correct, except the last one, which should be >= 60 focus rather than <= 60 focus.

The third step is an "or" step, if the 2 others are true then you cast it.

[Orthios 271]

9 minutes ago, Azortharion said:

Your interpretations are all correct, except the last one, which should be >= 60 focus rather than <= 60 focus.

The third step is an "or" step, if the 2 others are true then you cast it.

Should it not be "if you have less than 60 focus" so that none generated is wasted (thus current focus <= 60)?

[Bumbum 0]

>= 60 so you have enough focus to cast your powerfull abilities while vulnerable is up. Focus cap does not occur at this point normally, and if so, it is not so evil in this case.

[Bumbum 0]

11 hours ago, Guest Azarith said:

"Only use Maked Shot if:

• Vulnerable has less then 2 sec left on target (not enough time to cast another Aimed Shot)

why 2 sec? are 0,5 sec not enough to cast aimed shot and reach target?

[Azortharion 60]

Aimed Shot has a 2-second cast time (lowered by Haste) by default. With the 4-piece set bonus, you could probably scrape by with it.

[Bumbum 0]

Thx for the quick answer.

Two more questions may be allowed pls.

(1) I am unsure about the interpretation of: "Cast Marked Shot when it is available, [...]"

a) Does "available" mean marked shot is right now useable, that is to say the button is already blinking?

b) Or does "available" mean marking targets is up and you should use sidewinders immediately followed by marked shot?

I guess it is a), isn´t it?  But b) were also kind of "available".

 

(2) It says: "You should also keep it (sidewinders) from ever reaching 2 charges, [...]. this statement, especially the word "ever" indicates a high (not to say highest) priority, but it is written within the description of priority  4, which indicates a low priority.

I see a contrariety here, so I am not sure how to behave here exactly.

 

Thx very much for clarification.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Bumbum

[Guest Eagleeye @ Proudmoor]

I think maybe the stat priorities are not all that great.  Of course it didn't help that our previous-best stat is now our worst, and our previous worst (haste) seems to be tied for first.

My concern is regarding haste being ranked UNDER mastery.  I agree that in the long run, Mastery WILL be the #1 stat, but I think there may be at least a soft cap of haste you want to reach before stacking mastery to the roof.

Let's consider all of the benefits of haste...

1) Increased focus generation

2) Increased proc chances (due to faster auto attacks) on Lock and Load (8% chance on auto attacks is not gonna change, so the only way to get more of these procs is to fire auto attacks faster).  This translates into GCDs that cost no focus, reducing the dead time in the rotation.

3) Reduced recharge timer on sidewinders (this is HUGE)... 20% haste = 2 seconds off that recharge.

4) Reduced GCD from the new top-end of 1.25 down to .75.

 

Honestly I think the goal OUGHT to be to get at least to 25% haste (maybe even more actually) before going for mastery stacking.

 

Has anyone simcrafted this yet?

[Azortharion 60]

Mastery is better than Haste in SimCraft, that's why it's the recommended stat. I don't know why you'd then ask if anyone has Simcrafted it - that's exactly what the guide is based on.

If Mastery is better than Haste before any softcap, then obviously it's not advantageous to go Haste over Mastery at any point.

1) Correct.

2) Yes.

3) The recharge is nearly irrelevant. Sidewinders usage is limited by Marking Targets proc chance (which Haste also increases).

4) The top end GCD is 1.5s. You need 100% haste to go to 0.75s.

The answer is no, Haste is not worth going for over Mastery. Not even close.

 

 

[Azortharion 60]

1 hour ago, Bumbum said:

Thx for the quick answer.

Two more questions may be allowed pls.

(1) I am unsure about the interpretation of: "Cast Marked Shot when it is available, [...]"

a) Does "available" mean marked shot is right now useable, that is to say the button is already blinking?

b) Or does "available" mean marking targets is up and you should use sidewinders immediately followed by marked shot?

I guess it is a), isn´t it?  But b) were also kind of "available".

 

(2) It says: "You should also keep it (sidewinders) from ever reaching 2 charges, [...]. this statement, especially the word "ever" indicates a high (not to say highest) priority, but it is written within the description of priority  4, which indicates a low priority.

I see a contrariety here, so I am not sure how to behave here exactly.

 

Thx very much for clarification.

It's a, not sure how I can make it more clear without being very convoluted sounding.

Sidewinders is the last thing you cast anyway. As for the notes on specific Sidewinders usage, that is within the context of Sidewinders usage so to speak. Sidewinders maintains the same priority (else it'd be listed elsewhere), but only if either of those conditions are met. If one isn't met, then move on and see if the next is, so on.

[Bumbum 0]

Ok, thx.

The reason I asked about the marked shot availability is, when marked shot has highest priority, and its distance to the lower priorities were big enoug (which I do not know how big the distance is, but I believe you that you know^^) it could be valuable to force the availability of marked shot by use sidewinders.

 

1 hour ago, Azortharion said:

Sidewinders is the last thing you cast anyway

If I do so, I experience sidewinders occurs occasionally remaining with 2 stacks for 1 or even 2 seconds (while casting abilities of higher priority).

I assume, 2 stacks are ok in that case. Althouh it would reduce the amount of total infight usage of sidewinders (and therefore marked shots too).

 

Edited July 28, 2016 by Bumbum

[Azortharion 60]

You'll only have 12 seconds of Vulnerable per Sidewinders+Marked, the CD of Sidewinders before Haste is 12 seconds, so it's almost impossible for you to fill out Vulnerable windows and still have something to cast when Sidewinders reaches 2 charges.

[Binkya 0]

Azortharion,

I have another question. I have Kihra's upgraded ilvl 725 and Chipped Soul Prism and Stone of the Elements. Should I use on normal bosses Kihra's and Chipped or Kihra's and Stone of the Elements? Cause I see most people using Kihra's+ Stone of the Elements, but your ranking list says I can better use Chipped Soul Prism next to it. On Demon Bosses its also just Kihra's and Heirloom trinket right?

[Bumbum 0]

1 hour ago, Azortharion said:

so it's almost impossible for you to fill out Vulnerable windows and still have something to cast when Sidewinders reaches 2 charges.

Thx for the patience. Ok, I found the fault. I was still haste geared yesterday from BM. The recharge time of sidewinders was to fast, but not fast enough. So it came in competition with the barrage CD, when starting the rotation with barrage followed by sidewinders. The (second) sidewinders came off together or short after the barrage CD, so it had to wait the barrage channeltime with 2 stacks for about 1 or 2 seconds. Now that I changed to mastery, it does not overlap anymore (in general).

[Guest Azarith]

16 hours ago, Azortharion said:

Your interpretations are all correct, except the last one, which should be >= 60 focus rather than <= 60 focus.

The third step is an "or" step, if the 2 others are true then you cast it.

Thanks for the response :)

Great gudie btw. It was just to many ifs and buts in the same instruction for my puny human brain to handle :P

 

5 hours ago, Bumbum said:

why 2 sec? are 0,5 sec not enough to cast aimed shot and reach target?

I'm only playing hunter as an alt and have like ~700 ilvl.

For me casting Aimed Shot is ~1,6 sec iirc. 

Also wanted to be clear what the purpose of the number was, so used the default cast time of the skill.

But yeah, that should be adjusted to aimed cast time + 0,2 sec or so

[Bumbum 0]

Hallo again,

barrage is put in second while marked shot is put in first place in the priority list. I wonder why barrage is not on top. In my opinion it would have the advantage not unnecessary delaying barrage (1 GCD) an therefore not losing any use in fight. On the other hand prefering barrage has no disadvantage as long as you still can use marked shot without any difficulty within the first vulnerable-cycle, to say immediately after barrage.

This way less vulnerable aimed shots would hit, but in assumption they are not that value as barrage (like indicated in your priority order), there would have to be an overall benefit, woulnd´t it?

 

Another question, the guide do not point this out.

Say we have 50 focus and vulnerable debuff will be one more second up, and barrage is about to come off CD in a few seconds (2s for axample).

What do you think, what is more valuable?

1) Shot another aimed shot and wait a long time focus starved till barrage is usable?
2) Or is it better to wait those 2 seconds for barrage and miss one vulnerable aimed shot?

Edited July 29, 2016 by Bumbum

[Guest Josh]

If you have marked shot up and Vulnerable with >2 seconds as per guide you would not use it but Aimed Shot instead. However, going down the priority list you should use Barrage over Aimed shot. 

Barrage has a channel time of 3 seconds before haste adjustments. In that case you would need 2,x seconds left to Barrage first and then using Marked Shot. In the hectic of the fight it is problably to risky going for the 2,y window but better to stick with 3 seconds. 

I did not see that explained in the guide but is this the optimal rotation if you have Marked and Barrage up at the same time?

[Bumbum 0]

9 hours ago, Guest Josh said:

Barrage has a channel time of 3 seconds before haste adjustments. In that case you would need 2,x seconds left to Barrage first and then using Marked Shot. In the hectic of the fight it is problably to risky going for the 2,y window but better to stick with 3 seconds. 

My barrage casttime is 2,6 s and my GCD is 1,3 s. So there are still ~2,0 till 2.1 seconds to cast marked shot. The traveltime should be save too. Just checked the logs: On imps at Mannoroth for example, (wich are eight targets in total) the last shot from marked shot still hits tight under 1 s after casting. Maybe traveltime could rais up to almost 2 s at max range.

I do not see a reason for hectics or risks here, since it is easy predictable.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Bumbum

[Guest Josh]

I think I was not clear enough:

If Vulnerable Debuff has 2.6 - 3.0 seconds left (whatever the haste adjustment is) and Marked SHot and Barrage is up what shot order would be optimal?

A.Barrage>Marked Shot (risk of not being able to cast Marked under Vulnerable) 

B. Marked Shot > Barrage

Currently guide says if you have more than 2.0 left never use Marked SHot. B would break that rule.

 

[cripplegate 0]

On 19/07/2016 at 7:57 PM, Asheketchum said:

Have you ever tried Rune of Recreation? I tried it with my Hunter and when it Procs on Ring use you do 400k Aimed Shot Crits (Chim dealt about 800k Crit with Pot and Ring), you can do some rly sick rings with that. But idk how it sims. It procs on Pull every time and you can get 2 chims in those 10 secs.  Tested on Warspear Dummy not on an actual Raid boss (but you'd have raidbuffs there). Could also be sick with ring and multi target sidewinder + marked or maybe with Trueshot and Ring.

If it Procs atm with Mastery Weapon Enchant Proc I go to 9400 Mastery on my Marksman which is something like 60%.

 

e: talking pre patch not beta with 860 something ilvl

What is Rune of Recreation please?

Also 860 ilvl pre patch??

[Orthios 271]

1 hour ago, cripplegate said:

What is Rune of Recreation please?

Also 860 ilvl pre patch??

He means the Rune of Reorigination, a trinket from Throne of Thunder (Lei Shen, MoP raid) that takes the lower two of your Crit, Haste, and Mastery ratings, combines the ratings and adds double that value to the highest of the above three stats for its 10s proc duration.  As for the 860 ilvl part, he means that during the pre-patch, not beta/legion where you have 860 ilvl.

[Guest Andropov]

Question regarding trinkets for max dps. I have a 721 (maxed upgraded) chipped soul prism, a 725ilvl (max upgraded) stone of the elements and a 715 (maxed upgraded) kihra's. should i stick to the stone and soul prism, or would the kihras benefit me more in some fights compared to others despite the ilvl decrease.