wow New Level Requirements for Unlocking Talents in Shadowlands

[Stan 4,796]

Level 60 is the max level in Shadowlands and to offer meaningful progression, Blizzard has normalized level requirements for unlocking talent rows across all classes.

In Battle for Azeroth, the vast majority of classes unlocked a new talent row at level 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, and 100 with Death Knights (56, 57, 58, 60, 75, 90, 100) and Demon Hunters (99, 100, 102, 104, 106, 108, 100) being the only outliers due to their starting experience. With the max level cap increased to 120, you virtually gained no new abilities or talents after level 100.

In Shadowlands, all classes including Death Knights and Demon Hunters will unlock their first talent row at level 15. The second talent row becomes available at level 25 and the next one every five levels up to level 50.

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[z4yrus 0]

The fact that they didn't add additional row at level 60 is sad for me. It would solve so much class design problems (they can include some fun azerite traits, new spells etc.) They avoided adding new row in BFA that could solve problems with loosing artefacts, and they are doing it again...sad, at least for me tho.

Edited April 10, 2020 by z4yrus

[Bobbis 208]

I'd agree with Z4rus, it's a missed opportunity both times to keep them in as options. Some were kept, Glimmer for paladins will be kept, Pheonix Flames(?) for mage for Artifact for instance. 

[Arcling 787]

34 minutes ago, z4yrus said:

The fact that they didn't add additional row at level 60 is sad for me. It would solve so much class design problems (they can include some fun azerite traits, new spells etc.) They avoided adding new row in BFA that could solve problems with loosing artefacts, and they are doing it again...sad, at least for me tho.

It's probably due to same reason why they didn't add anything new, unfortunately. Similarly why DH came out with only 2 specs, and it's unlikely we will ever see a new class with more specs, just like they've stopped adding new talent rows. Less stuff to develop and to balance, albeit abilities from new factions are there and they will be problematic to balance. 

[TheWizard 0]

On 4/10/2020 at 9:36 AM, Arcling said:

It's probably due to same reason why they didn't add anything new, unfortunately. Similarly why DH came out with only 2 specs, and it's unlikely we will ever see a new class with more specs

Nah, that's just because like they said, thematically they really couldn't make a third one that made any sense. Druids got a fourth spec (the splitting of Feral and Gaurdian) because it did make sense to do it. Granted that was in MoP but still if you think that's the case what could possibly even be a third DH spec? Glaive Tossers? Eye Beamers? 

 

On 4/10/2020 at 9:36 AM, Arcling said:

 just like they've stopped adding new talent rows. Less stuff to develop and to balance, albeit abilities from new factions are there and they will be problematic to balance. 

That's contradictory though. Like in Legion instead of three simple talents they gave us artifact weapons and a wide aray of legendaries to choose from. BfA it is Azerite pieces, your neck slots, and now corruptions. Shadowlands it is minimum your Convenant and legendaries. They may tack on several other things later, who knows. But to say they want to develop less while they are actively doing dramatically more than just three talents while also making most things impact you in dramatically more and unique ways is a bit silly.

The trend at this point is each new xpac brings new forms of powers and rules with them that we have to figure out how to express through our toons. I gaurentee you creating three new static abilities that hardly ever change would not be satisfactory for the playerbase because "they don't care to create anything new they just want less stuff to develop and balance."

That's not to say I disagree with you though, I would love three new talents. But from a gameplay design standpoint constantly adding new talents plus new forms of power progression AND keeping bits and pieces of old forms just means even more power creep and them going back down the Cata road where they start pruning again. I personally would like a vanilla style talent system for leveling and then once you get to end game you actually get the current talent points. Instead of just pasively learning upgrades for everything as you level. But that's a pipedream.

We often would love to keep every ability possible but honestly that leads to stagnation and a lack of growth when nothing ever changes. You think the all time favorite Mage spell Alter Time would have ever come from Vanilla through Wrath if they weren't always trying to one-up themselves trying to replace previously cut spells? Having more options and choices is a lot of times a good thing, but having too many in a game especially is often disastrous. Especially when we all know there is usually only one "right" answer anyways.

[Arcling 787]

1 hour ago, TheWizard said:

Nah, that's just because like they said, thematically they really couldn't make a third one that made any sense. Druids got a fourth spec (the splitting of Feral and Gaurdian) because it did make sense to do it. Granted that was in MoP but still if you think that's the case what could possibly even be a third DH spec? Glaive Tossers? Eye Beamers? 

That's contradictory though. Like in Legion instead of three simple talents they gave us artifact weapons and a wide aray of legendaries to choose from. BfA it is Azerite pieces, your neck slots, and now corruptions. Shadowlands it is minimum your Convenant and legendaries. They may tack on several other things later, who knows. But to say they want to develop less while they are actively doing dramatically more than just three talents while also making most things impact you in dramatically more and unique ways is a bit silly.

For DH, perhaps some other combat style, but melee as well. There are some classes with more than one damage spec, I understand why they did this, because some specs have really struggled to not be too similar. Still, it's less stuff to balance.

It's not contradictory. Whatever remains from these abilities in next expansion, can be salvaged in form of talents, just like some from Legion artifacts were. Would have been another story if they have developed both new talent rows and faction abilities. Anyway, they've got enough to handle as it is, seems doubtful they will manage to even balance that.