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Torghast Needs to Be More Rewarding

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In the following post, we reflect on Torghast and its rewards structure and propose improvements that we think would help the feature going forward in Shadowlands.

Many of you probably crafted and upgraded multiple Legendary items by now in the expansion and played through Twisting Corridors and unlocked Corridor Creeper Corridor Creeper. But beyond that, there's really no incentive to do Torghast, so how could the Tower of the Damned improve? We think the mode has great potential, but it lacks in the rewards department

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1. Weekly Loot from Torghast?

Possibly the easiest solution for Torghast would be adding 1 piece of loot per week at the end of the run based on Layer difficulty, similarly to Horrific Visions in Patch 8.3. That way, players would have their Soul Ash and an additional goal to pursue with their runs.

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2. Add Torghast to the Great Vault?

Another easy fix to make players do Torghast is by adding it to the Great Vault. This has been requested by the community over and over... and over. While Torghast shouldn't turn into a major loot source, it would be great giving solo players more rows in the Great Vault. 

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3. New Island Expedition-style Cosmetics?

People request single-player queues for Island Expeditions even after Battle for Azeroth's over, mainly due to the rewards they offer. Unique cosmetics, battle pets, mounts, and more, can be obtained there. A similar rewards structure for Torghast would work really well, especially in 9.1 when the Twisting Corridors mount becomes obsolete.

Let us know your opinion about Torghast. Do you think it's rewarding enough in its current state?

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All of the ideas are sound. I think its imperative that you also get soul ash catchup of some sort (or just remove the weekly cap so you can grind it in multiple runs). The "you have to put some time each week and you'll still be forever behind" design seems archaic and pountless. 

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Of these suggestions, the Great Vault one is my favourite. But I would like all of them.

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Yep. Even after the "challenge" of Twisting corridors, there is nothing to do. I mean, they could add the chance to get some mounts that are no longer available in the game like the Kor'kron wolf or old sets as well.It could have been Mage tower 2.0 Hope 9.1 fixes this

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As it is now, the only reason I go there is to farm soul ash for leggos on my alts. There's honestly no other reason for me to go in there, and I refer to it as Choreghast for a reason. As for the mount? Meh... I'd rather craft it, because 18 floors of not-fun isn't terribly appealing to me (did it once to get the quest from Death Dad cleared out of my qlog).

If they offer more incentives, I might do it more? But not where it's at now.

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Repeatable Anima farm - Currently, there is only a single source of repeatable Anima farm if you are grinding the Anima, and that's M+ - All other sources of Anima are on a daily or weekly reset. Having regular Torghast give 105 Anima per successful layer 8 run, and TC give 500 Anima per successful layer 8 run would be quite nice.

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What I'd like to see is dividing up the soul ash reward. Have a portion awarded for each floor totaling up to half and killing the boss gives the other half. That way you come away with something if you have to leave or can't defeat the final boss.

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What really sucks is Blizz keeps adding these 1-3 man instanced activites for people to do like Torghast, Island Expeditions, the 3man scenarios from MoP, and they don't support em.  They are obviously designed to be 1 xpac off things destined to be forgotten and its a real shame.  I remember in MoP having a blast with the 3 man scenarios because it gave players like me who primarily played dps specs something to do without having to wait forever for a tank or healer and still get a reward of some kind.  Blizz needs more stuff like this that casual dps players can do solo or in small groups and there needs to be actual rewards for it.  It's no secret the playerbase is shrinking and has been slowly and steadily for years.  Sure seems like either less people are playing tank or healer specs, or they less and less willing to run with strangers.  Blizz needs to find other avenues for dps spec players to stay engaged.  Torghast was an option, but it was basically dead on arrival for casual players with the only rewards from it being soul ash,  which is a shame cause it can be super fun, but fun isn't enough.

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I'd like to see it available for leveling alts, like islands were available. It could be a fairly quick source for leveling instances since the 4 dungeons for leveling get really stale really fast.

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Perhaps something a little more in tune with the theme? I was thinking something along the lines of being able to collect keys from Bosses and rares (and maybe a low chance from normal mobs?). At the end of the run you'll come to a cell block where you can use the keys to open cells and free people/beasts/anything from Torghast. Small cells cost 1 key each, medium cells cost 3 keys each and big cells cost 5 keys each, and you have to use them (you can't take them out). This way  when you have 5 keys you have to gamble whether you want to open up 1 big cell for 1 big reward, or 1 medium and 2 small ones  for 3 smaller rewards. Offcourse with loottables set to each size of cage and also possibilities for gear.

Yeah, it isn't the most refined idea and needs work but I came up with this within 30 seconds. So Blizzard should definitely be able to come up with a more rewarding end of Torghast in all this time.

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17 minutes ago, Pandabuffel said:

Perhaps something a little more in tune with the theme? I was thinking something along the lines of being able to collect keys from Bosses and rares (and maybe a low chance from normal mobs?). At the end of the run you'll come to a cell block where you can use the keys to open cells and free people/beasts/anything from Torghast. Small cells cost 1 key each, medium cells cost 3 keys each and big cells cost 5 keys each, and you have to use them (you can't take them out). This way  when you have 5 keys you have to gamble whether you want to open up 1 big cell for 1 big reward, or 1 medium and 2 small ones  for 3 smaller rewards. Offcourse with loottables set to each size of cage and also possibilities for gear.

Yeah, it isn't the most refined idea and needs work but I came up with this within 30 seconds. So Blizzard should definitely be able to come up with a more rewarding end of Torghast in all this time.

that is a pretty nice idea

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9 hours ago, Calorat said:

or they less and less willing to run with strangers.

i think thats it. sure there are far mor dps out there then tanks and heals and i think raids are to blame for that cause not every one that wants to be a tank can get a tank spot in there nice loving guild but when you are a tank or a heal you get so much *filtered* from randoms in m+ no wonder they dont go with randoms if they dont have to

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18 hours ago, Trest said:

Of these suggestions, the Great Vault one is my favourite. But I would like all of them.

Too easy. Torghast compared to the other GV challenges is too easy. Even if they added difficulty to Torghast, it would be too easy compared to the top difficulty of both raids, dungs and pvp. And in order to be just as rewarding as the other challanges, it has to deliver the same reward - for the same difficulty.

And torghast won't be as hard as other difficulties, because you can do it solo - not relying on others. Which makes it super easy.

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29 minutes ago, Znifler said:

Too easy. Torghast compared to the other GV challenges is too easy. Even if they added difficulty to Torghast, it would be too easy compared to the top difficulty of both raids, dungs and pvp. And in order to be just as rewarding as the other challanges, it has to deliver the same reward - for the same difficulty.

And torghast won't be as hard as other difficulties, because you can do it solo - not relying on others. Which makes it super easy.

yeah its easy but they could make it that you have a low chancer of getting something or make challenges insede of torghast  to unlock stuff

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The only one of the 3 that makes sense is the extra cosmetics like islands. The balance in there is terrible, and it would make it too easy for some classes whilst a hurdle for others. I.e my 170 boomkin cleared floor 8 with no issue the other day, whereas my rogue at 200 can be a struggle if I don't do it properly. Tanks are super easy too. 

Or you nullify it all by going as a grp of 5, and be done in 15m without breaking a sweat...

Panda's idea (which is a repeat from the Island of Thunder from MoP I think?) would be a cool way to implement it.

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i think blizzard has a greater vision with torghast, but they will stretch all those implementations over the course of the expansion which should've been implemented from the start..

I will come back with 9.3 to chill through the content like the last 2 expansions, worked really well and had lot of fun 😄

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1 hour ago, Bobbis said:

Panda's idea (which is a repeat from the Island of Thunder from MoP I think?) would be a cool way to implement it.

After I came up with the keys I indeed was like 'Hey, it's a bit like the Treasure run from the Island of Thunder." and tried to expand on it. I think it was a cool feature and when expanded the right way it might become a cool idea for the reward-section in Torghast. Basically anything besides The Great Vault or weekly loot, because I feel those fixes might feel way too flat and boring.

edit: after I clicked this page away another idea popped into my head where you can also have a chance of a key-fragment when picking up an anima orb. Either 2 or 3 fragments can be used to create a key. This way you have the choice to become stronger in the run or go for extra rewards. Basically this makes harder runs more rewarding but also more risky since you can gather more keys but might not be powerful enough to clear the run and thus losing all those keys again, forcing you to find a fitting risk-reward balance for your character.

Edited by Pandabuffel
additional idea
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19 hours ago, Pokeey said:

What I'd like to see is dividing up the soul ash reward. Have a portion awarded for each floor totaling up to half and killing the boss gives the other half. That way you come away with something if you have to leave or can't defeat the final boss.

I'd guess this is coming in 9.1, since the devs acknowledged that failing a Torghast run was probably the worst experience in WoW, ever. Pretty sure it came up at Blizzconline.

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I am of such mixed feelings about this topic. Yes, I'd love to see more rewards in Torghast; I loved the place but have zero reason to go back.

On the other hand, I know well that a lot of people hate it and some classes/specs have a terrible time. I would hate to have even more reasons for them to feel forced to go.

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42 minutes ago, solitha said:

I am of such mixed feelings about this topic. Yes, I'd love to see more rewards in Torghast; I loved the place but have zero reason to go back.

On the other hand, I know well that a lot of people hate it and some classes/specs have a terrible time. I would hate to have even more reasons for them to feel forced to go.

The key would be keeping it cosmetic, not tied to furthering power beyond making the leggos imo. Or just expand on the balancing. I can only speak for hunter but they feel much better this side of 9.0.5 than before which is nice.

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All are nice ideas but I think Blizzard would go the other end of the spectrum and fall short on player expectations when it comes to adding additional incentives to Torghast.  We also know in 9.1 there will be a new wing along with additional layers be introduced.  I can suspect that we may even be able to upgrade our Legendary items by an additional 1-2 tier levels past ilvl235.  I'm curious if Blizzard will allow an additional borrow power gain for 9.1 in lines with stronger pathways for Conduits in Soulbinds or allowing the player to equip two Legendary items instead of 1.

I kinda just don't want 9.1 to be a repeat like 8.1 where all we got was one additional ring to Azerite gear and that was it till Essences and Corruption gear was released later on in the expansion.

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Great article addressing a really big issue, thanks a lot Stan!

Personally, I like the Torghast powers and how it makes you approach your class differently. There's sure a fun part of it there, but it's on a very thin line of "God Mode" and "Boring Hard". 

What I mean is: If it feels too much like God Mode then it just becomes tedious, because you are too strong and there is no challenge and after some point you get used to it and don't feel powerful at all, just mowing down the lawn.

When it's Boring Hard, you fall over on the other side of the line, because it becomes more stressful than challenging and fun.

But as Stan has pointed out, this can be overcome with a rewarding motivation. That would both make us go when it feels tedious AND when it's stressfully hard.

Legion's Mage Tower Challenges are a good example of that. Some fights were insanely hard with all the bad combinations piling up, Healing Challenges were extremely long and unforgiving. Yet, the reward and feeling of achievement and most importantly knowing that it has an end a very unique reward made many players go for it.

I think we moved back from that formula of success backwards with N'Zoth's Visions in BfA. 5 mask solo runs were the similar challenge this time, but they were not equally rewarding and if you did it with one character it was enough, then you would just farm it for gem sockets. It's a backwards reward and turns that into an endless grind. I mean, only extra was the backpack appearance and the mount and the design of the mount reward for 100k mementos was not even that unique and desirable. For example, if it could reward an uncorrupted version of the Ny'alotha Heroic mount, I bet a lot more people would go for it. They could even add it as a seperate mount, like for example if you buy 20 gem sockets you could get the second mount, that would give an extra incentive to do it more instead of endless grind and a minor gear enhancement.

Now, in Torghast, we moved even more backwards. Yes, we get a Maw-only mount but let's accept it, we have seen more better mounts in this game and just for utility is it worth to do all those 8 floors? Not really, because takes too much time and rewards too little and considering the utility, at least one class (Druids) would not even bother to go for it. So, either the utility had to be a bit better (like giving 50% stealth, less aggro, etc.) or it should just have a much tempting design so everyone would like to show off with it, because we all know, in WoW: Looks >>> All (including utility.)

So, how to fix it? More rewards but not just gear, extra grind or work, but a variety of rewards that would really feel rewarding. As Stan said, mog sets, maybe even unique weapons, titles, pets, different things for solo runs and for group runs, maybe even group combinations (no healer, no tank, 3 players, 5 players etc.)

Also, if it had at least the same amount of rewards like Islands as pointed out in the article, it really would be a lot different and we would all be motivated for it. So, I hope we can start to move forwards in rewards systems so this nice theme and zone would not go to waste and remembered good instead of tedious and boring.

Sorry this has been a long comment, thanks for coming to my WoW talk and thanks again to Stan for inspiring us to talk about this. I hope some good people from Blizzard take a look at our forums too, lots of good ideas here, nice constructive feedback always helps to make it better, so an extra thanks to all the good commenters here too! 

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      We're back with the weekly Mythic+ updates, as this week sees Fire rocket even further away from the other specs and Fury rises the most among top players! Luckily Fire will be toned down come 9.1, but it's going to remain the extreme top dog for a while more.
      Note: The logs are based on POINTS, and not actual damage or healing, meaning they log the timed completion for the specs, with higher keys getting more points, obviously. The time in which the dungeon is completed is also a factor, but a much, much smaller one, as it grants very few points if you do it significantly faster than just any in-time completion. We're also using the Normalized Aggregate Scores numbers, for clarity, meaning the top spec is marked as 100 and then the rest are ranked in relation to that peak point.
      This past week was Tyrannical, Inspiring, Necrotic (and Prideful).
      All Keys
      Fire remains far above all the other specs this week in the 95th as even Balance and Outlaw, who were hanging in there the last two weeks, fall back down with the rest of them! The two specs also switch places in 2nd and 3rd, as Fury is the main mover in the top, jumping 2 spots to land just outside the top 5, as Affliction falls one to accommodate it. Frost Mage jumped the most spots overall, however, sneaking into the top 10 with a 4 spot leap, as Assassination drops a few to make room.

      Mythic+ All Keys 95th Percentile Data by Warcraft Logs.
      All percentiles follows the top ones this week, with Balance taking 2nd and Fury rising, with Elemental actually topples Marksmanship, unlike in the 95th.

      Mythic+ All Keys All Percentile Data by Warcraft Logs.
      High Keys
      The +15 crowd is as stable as ever, with only Elemental rising a significant amount, and Assassination falling off 3 spots but remaining in the top 10. Feral had a decent week, dragging itself up from dead last a whole 5 spots, leaving Demo and BM to languish at the bottom. Increasingly this bracket seems to be the actual most realistic benchmark for the specs, as more and more players play in this particular sandbox.

      Mythic+15 All Percentile Data by Warcraft Logs.
      Th twenties are actually quite stable this week and it seems the Subtletly game is up, as it spends another week down around the bottom. Shadow also dropped a little, with the biggest mover being Feral, who went down to the penultimate spot.

      Mythic+20 All Percentile Data by Warcraft Logs.

      For even more in-depth data for each individual key head on over to Warcraft Logs. And if you're interested in more info on the specs themselves you can always check out our class guides or our extensive Mythic+ guides as well, which have tier lists, dungeon rankings and more.
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