5.4 Warlock (Intellect) Trinkets

[JvChequer 43]

510 Cha-ye

[Meeloh 0]

Hey guys... first post here. I'm confused with the changes to RPPM trinkets and the way the 5.4 trinkets will work. Are the new ones more like ICD where you can plan more or less when they're gonna proc? Also, I've had bad luck with drops and I stopped playing for like 3 months so I'm stuck with Breath and LeiShen trinkets (both LFR :( ), which should I replace first for a new 5.4 trinket if I want to play Affliction next patch (offspec Demo)?

 Thanks in advance.

[Zagam 1,983]

Read the trinkets description on my trinket page or ptr.wowhead.com.  some of them have ICDs and some have RPPM procs.  you're going to want to replace any and all of the 5.3 trinkets with any and all of the 5.4 trinkets ASAP. 

[Kazistrasz 216]

Meeloh, the change is like so (if I get anything wrong, someone correct me as I'm only going off of what I've read):

 

In the past: Trinkets all had a static chance to proc and an ICD (like you referenced). You could generally count on them to proc within 5-10 seconds of coming off ICD since you've got a lot of things hitting the boss. This was given up in favor of "slightly" (read: absurdly) more random proc natures with RPPM "averaging" a certain number of procs per minute based on each ability's cast time, tick time, and other stupid, overly-mathy things. This has angered many people and has widely been regarded as a bad move.

 

Currently: RPPM trinkets increase chance to proc the longer they go without proc, as a sort of "bad luck protection". After a certain length of time, they will proc no matter what. So, at the beginning of a pull, none of your stuff has gone off recently, meaning it will all go off at the start. This is how we are able to plan openers to be going into meta and casting Doom right as UVLS procs at the start, and how we have all of our procs go off at the beginning and we're putting up ridiculously powerful DoTs.

 

In 5.4: When you begin combat, RPPM procs will have their last proc timers set to 90 seconds. This means they will no longer all proc in unison off the bat. Different RPPM rates with different "bad luck protection" will be guaranteed to go off at different times. Say your Breath trinket is guaranteed on a 2-minute basis (making this up since I don't know). This means when you start the fight, it will have the higher chance to proc from being 90 seconds since last proc, and it will guaranteedly go off within the first 30 seconds. Now pretend your UVLS is only guaranteed on a 6-minute basis (again, making it up). It will have the normal tiny chance to proc at the start from the 90 second timer. It won't be guaranteed to go off until 4.5 minutes into the fight.

 

Rather than simply doing something to nerf or fix UVLS, Blizzard decided to make sweeping nerfs to everything under the guise of, "everything at the start [like we've had for years with the old ICD trinkets] is breaking the game." Oh, and in case that weren't enough, in the event you do get a UVLS proc, they removed our Glyph of Everlasting Affliction to try to make sure you rarely last until the next proc.

 

In response to your question, you will want to get rid of your UVLS first. I, too, have the LFR version. While the 535/541 versions *might* be somewhat usable at the start of Siege, our 502 version is going to essentially be like not having a trinket proc at all. 

 

Question about PBI:

 

Can we get a definite clarification on how the amplification works, especially in regards to raid buffs? It seems like it's either got to be not as good as it sounds or way too good (i.e., buff only base rating or stack manipulatively with everything a la spell haste buff).

[Zagam 1,983]

It's pretty simplistic and does exactly what it says.  If you have 10,000 Haste rating and you equip the 553 version that amplifies stats by 6%, you'd then have 10,600 Haste rating.  Same with Mastery.  For Crit damage, it's calculated similarly to how Crits worked with Crit meta gems.  Crit damage modifier is x2.00.  The meta gem used to be 3% chance, but the Crit damage multiplier wasn't 2.03, it was 2.00 x 1.03 = 2.06, so it increased Crit damage by 6%.  For the Amplification proc, you'll be seeing a Crit modifier of 2.00 x 1.06 = 2.12, or a 12% increased Crit damage.  This trinket will obviously scale as your gear gets better.  It will be BiS for all caster classes.

[Sifon 25]

Read the trinkets description on my trinket page or ptr.wowhead.com.  some of them have ICDs and some have RPPM procs.  you're going to want to replace any and all of the 5.3 trinkets with any and all of the 5.4 trinkets ASAP. 

 

I'm gonna keep my 549 wush until heroics probably.

 

Also I'm almost %100 sure that crit modifiers doesn't double dip, %3 modifier is %203 damage.

[Meeloh 0]

So now we won't have to rely on huge openers. What about the meta gem? Is it still gonna be worth it considering the change on haste-rppm trinket relationship?

[Zagam 1,983]

I'm gonna keep my 549 wush until heroics probably.

 

Also I'm almost %100 sure that crit modifiers doesn't double dip, %3 modifier is %203 damage.

Wush is being nerfed to a 10 second duration with the Int proc increasing every 1 second.  It's RPPM adjustment has been modified to make it so it procs 2x as often.  It'll be a solid choice for Affliction, but not Demonology or Destruction.  Crit modifiers were proven to work as I described with the 3% increased critical damage modifier from the previous meta gems.  Why wouldn't this trinket work the same?  It's not a 'double-dip'...it's just how the calculation is done.  If it said it increased Crit chance by 6%, it wouldn't double dip.  It's modifying the Crit damage which is calculated through WoW's mechanical critical damage formula which is damage = 2.0 * modifiers which means you get 2x the effect listed.

 

So now we won't have to rely on huge openers. What about the meta gem? Is it still gonna be worth it considering the change on haste-rppm trinket relationship?

"Rely" on huge openers is a manipulation of how most heroic raiders approached this system.  They didn't "rely" on the procs.  The procs happened.  They used the procs to the most advantagous possible strategy to maximize damage.  It just made the opener important and made not getting procs at the beginning really detrimental to your overall contribution.  The Meta gem is a free Bloodlust-equivalent proc at random intervals.  As a DoT class, you can snapshot this and extend the duration far past its 10 second window.  Of course the meta will remain the absolute BiS for your meta slot.

[Meeloh 0]

and now the chance for all those procs to align at pull has been greatly reduced right?

[Zagam 1,983]

Correct.  Anything with an RPPM factor of less than 1 will absolutely not proc at the beginning.  UVLS's RPPM is .525.  It is guaranteed to proc with an interval of 3:10, but with the timer set to 1:30 on pull, you could see a proc, but you could also not see a proc until 1:40 into the fight.  It is unrealistic to last 1:40 just as much as it is to see the proc at the pull.  You'll be most likely to see it somewhere between 0:30 and 1:00 into a fight.

 

Same goes with other low RPPM trinkets.  High RPPM trinkets will have a much higher chance to proc at the pull, but most of these are ramp up trinkets (think Wushoolay's).

[Meeloh 0]

Ah awesome I get it... thanks a lot man.

[Caxamillion 0]

Maths question time!

 

Given heroic UVLS upgraded to 2/2 (roughly 0.67 procs a minute) and the new change to RPPM trinkets setting the timer at 120 seconds. What is the maximum amount of time into the fight that the trinket can proc. How does haste adjust this period of time? At what level of haste can we expect procs off the bat again?

[Zagam 1,983]

The timer is set to 90 seconds.  The interval is still set at a maximum of 3:10, but will come before that, so you're still looking at a max around 1:30-1:40, or 90-100 seconds.  Haste no longer affects RPPM as heavily, so you won't be stacking Haste (or using this trinket, TBH).  There is no achieveable level of Haste to bring your RPPM value up to the value needed to get a 95% expectancy on a proc.  You're not going to expect to get a proc off the bat ever because of how they set the timers. 

 

Get the new trinkets.  They especially don't want UVLS going forward.

[JvChequer 43]

New timer is 120sec.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9573547577?page=20#386

 

Yay...... /sad

Edited August 21, 2013 by JvChequer

[Zagam 1,983]

...Seriously?  Not that it matters because I've already dropped UVLS and reforged around it as soon as we killed Ra-den last night lol

[JvChequer 43]

I feel glad I don't DE my TF Normal Wushy and N Cha-Ye's for next patch.

 

Bad that does' not drop any Heroic Trinket in more than a month of Council and Megaera Kills.

Edited August 21, 2013 by JvChequer

[Kazistrasz 216]

It's pretty simplistic and does exactly what it says.  If you have 10,000 Haste rating and you equip the 553 version that amplifies stats by 6%, you'd then have 10,600 Haste rating.  Same with Mastery.  For Crit damage, it's calculated similarly to how Crits worked with Crit meta gems.  Crit damage modifier is x2.00.  The meta gem used to be 3% chance, but the Crit damage multiplier wasn't 2.03, it was 2.00 x 1.03 = 2.06, so it increased Crit damage by 6%.  For the Amplification proc, you'll be seeing a Crit modifier of 2.00 x 1.06 = 2.12, or a 12% increased Crit damage.  This trinket will obviously scale as your gear gets better.  It will be BiS for all caster classes.

 

So unlike how the 5% spell haste buff gives you 5% haste and then adds 5% of what you have from gear, it only affects your rating? Does that rating then get multiplied by the 5%? I.e., if you have 10k haste, when you raid buff that would normally go to 10500 and you'd go from 23.53% to 29.71% haste instead of 28.53%. With this trinket, would you go to 10600 then 11130 or just 11100? Then you'd be at 31.19%/31.18% and NOT go to 37.49%/37.47%, yes?

 

Does the mastery part of the buff affect the raid buff (i.e., do you go from 10600 to 13600 or 13780)?

[Zagam 1,983]

Your math is clunky.  It's a percentage to the stats, not the percentages.  Do the calculation and then convert to percentages.  10600 -> 11100 is not 5% increase.  10600 -> 11130 = 5% increase.  The trinket is a 6% amplification, so what you're looking at is weird. 

 

The 5% Haste buff is multiplicative.  If you have 25% Haste and you get the 5% Haste buff, the calculation is done by multiplying 1.25 * 1.05 to get 1.3125, or 31.25% Haste.

 

Just like Haste, the Mastery buff is calculated by multiplying the rating then converting into a percentage.  So if you have 10,000 base Mastery and you get the 3,000 buff, then the trinket would amplify 13,000 by 6%.  It's just order of operations like you learned in math class.

[Kazistrasz 216]

I did the calculations, I'm asking which one is correct, i.e. what does or does it not stack with. The 5% spell haste also amplifies with your base spell haste (why you need 19.05% unbuffed for 25% cap and not something closer to 24%), which is what I was asking about originally--that it only buffs your rating by 6% and leaves the base alone. And still, does it also amplify the 3k mastery from raid buff or does that go in after? Order of operations gets fuzzy when you're figuring out where the parentheses are going.

[Zagam 1,983]

Buffs are considered part of your base ratings.

[Meeloh 0]

In 5.4 patch for Affliction... which of the 5.3 trinkets will be better before upgrading to the new ones... Wush, Breath, Leishen, Chaye, Volatile?

[JvChequer 43]

Wush it's just THE trinket in 5.4. The HTF one is better than the Garrosh's trinket.

[Sifon 25]

Wush it's just THE trinket in 5.4. The HTF one is better than the Garrosh's trinket.

 

Not anymore, its changed to the way Wush works so it gets 1 stack each second, 23.5k int is huge even tho Wush has more rppm.

[Zagam 1,983]

I anticipate Black Blood > Wush because they won't want a trinket from previous tier being better than trinkets of the new tier.  I'd expect an RPPM modification to Black Blood.  Wush will be a solid choice until you get that one.  Also, Haste > Hit.

[Zagam 1,983]

Alright, lots to make note of...

 

Updated today (8/28) based on most current PTR release.  Iterations are getting smaller, so these values should go live.

 

Amplification trinket - corrected values, made upgrade suggestions

Multistrike trinket - corrected proc rates and RPPM factors

Cleave trinket - corrected proc rates

Black Blood - corrected Intellect proc and trinket information

 

Also, updated the 5.3 trinkets.  Some of the ptr.wowhead.com values look funky.  It shows Wush at 1.21 RPPM, Breath at 1.10 RPPM, and UVLS at 0.65 RPPM.  Wush and Breath seem pretty high...anyone got different numbers and a source to go with it?