5.4 Destruction Tips and Quirks

[Omaric 246]

Correct, although KTT pushes GoSac a bit ahead at a certain ilvl that I couldn't confidently say.  I believe the DoT's from CB roll into each other like Ignite for Fire Mages.  And yes, absolutely unleash as many CB's as possible in windows where you have many stacked buffs.

[Kazistrasz 216]

There are only two ways for Chaos Bolt to clip itself (both have to be firing two back-to-back):

 

You use two back-to-back consuming Backdraft charges (which you shouldn't do), or you have some sort of haste proc when casting the second that you didn't when you cast the first one (e.g., Tempus Repit).

[Ilion 8]

I know roughly Sac = Sup for talents. If you take Sac, should you wait between Chaos Bolts to get the full effect from the dot? If you have 3 full embers, and favorable procs are you better off to cast all 3 bolts back to back?

 

 

Unleash Hell, only bother about CB clipping if it won' make your procs go to waste.

[Nytemare 2]

I have both PBI and KTT (LFR - grr not getting normal ones), do I want GoSac or keep using GoSupr?

[Annoroth 5]

The 5% Haste buff does not, but Mastery buff definitely does. (This is why Demo DS is 30% mastery instead of 18k, 'cause that would have gotten it too).

True, that's why it was changed to begin with though,

 

 

You're ignoring the perfect timing of the ICD int proc and when doing this calculation you also need to account for raid buffs. Not sure about the others but I know Might counts for the PBI.

 

For the unaware, it's largely because PBI's large int proc lines up almost perfectly with DS. Combining the haste with a large amount of Int is a significant DPS boost. 

[Ilion 8]

Zagam really should open a thread and fixed with the title saying "DESTRO STATS = MASTERY > CRIT =~ Haste"

 

 

And a Pony image inside the thread.

 

 

If Zagam says black is white, 99% of the random locks that visit this forums will say black is white.

 

If he says that secondary stats are not determinant, they will just ignore him.

 

 

@Nytemare, if you've got KTT you should go GoSac, but then again, you may not notice much of a difference because of it being a low ilvl trinket.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Ilion

[Kazistrasz 216]

Take whatever the % chance is of a multistrike. Divide that by 3. That's how much of an increase on your DPS you will see from that trinket. Even a 536 version is something like 4%

[Wolland 1]

Pet pathing is still retarded.  They should spend an expansion reworking pets.

 

 

My guardian spent all his time just staring at the Paragons last night, without shooting one single bolt at any of them, LITERALLY.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Wolland

[Zagam 1,983]

If Zagam says black is white, 99% of the random locks that visit this forums will say black is white.

 

If he says that secondary stats are not determinant, they will just ignore him.

 

 

@Nytemare, if you've got KTT you should go GoSac, but then again, you may not notice much of a difference because of it being a low ilvl trinket.

The solution to this potential problem is I would never tell anyone black is white.  That's just crazy.  I don't just make blanket statements without explaining them.  In reference to what this comment was referencing, I think I've already told people how much secondary stats mean. 

 

My guardian spent all his time just staring at the Paragons last night, without shooting one single bolt at any of them, LITERALLY.

Referring to your Doomguard?  First time I've EVER heard him be referred to as a 'Guardian."  He certainly doesn't feel like one.  What you're seeing is a known bug I've reported a hundred times before but, just like the Gateway, remains unresolved.  Your Doomguard is summoned and has a fixate type mechanic...if his target dies, he will stand there and watch you for the remainder of his duration.  Deal with this by making sure whatever he is hitting remains alive for his entire duration.

[Soulzar 42]

There are only two ways for Chaos Bolt to clip itself (both have to be firing two back-to-back):

 

You use two back-to-back consuming Backdraft charges (which you shouldn't do), or you have some sort of haste proc when casting the second that you didn't when you cast the first one (e.g., Tempus Repit).

 

Unleash Hell, only bother about CB clipping if it won' make your procs go to waste.

 

The dot from CB does not clip.  Its a separate dot for each CB.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Soulzar

[JvChequer 43]

Referring to your Doomguard?  First time I've EVER heard him be referred to as a 'Guardian."  He certainly doesn't feel like one.  What you're seeing is a known bug I've reported a hundred times before but, just like the Gateway, remains unresolved.  Your Doomguard is summoned and has a fixate type mechanic...if his target dies, he will stand there and watch you for the remainder of his duration.  Deal with this by making sure whatever he is hitting remains alive for his entire duration.

 

 

Or use the Shitty Infernal for some reason.

[Zagam 1,983]

Or use the Shitty Infernal for some reason.

Never.  Ever.  Use.  Your.  Infernal.  Like...I think the only place this is applicable is the first Nazgrim pull with all those mobs and that's a stretch because the damage done to them is meaningless while your Doomguard could put meaningful damage into Nazgrim.  Infernal Awakening is where all of your damage is coming from...while he's up, he might as well be on vacation, because his melees and Immolation Aura are absolutely worthless.  Maybe use Infernal on Protectors when all those adds are up in Sun's Desperate Measures...

 

Either way, both CDs are crud. 

[Ilion 8]

The dot from CB does not clip.  Its a separate dot for each CB.

 

 

Nope

[Soulzar 42]

Never.  Ever.  Use.  Your.  Infernal.  Like...I think the only place this is applicable is the first Nazgrim pull with all those mobs and that's a stretch because the damage done to them is meaningless while your Doomguard could put meaningful damage into Nazgrim.  Infernal Awakening is where all of your damage is coming from...while he's up, he might as well be on vacation, because his melees and Immolation Aura are absolutely worthless.  Maybe use Infernal on Protectors when all those adds are up in Sun's Desperate Measures...

 

Either way, both CDs are crud. 

 

I am fairly sure Infernal Awakening is boosted by Meta.  It can do a lot of dmg for Demo, however.. again.. no real time you need that AoE dmg.

 

if they do not want to buff them, they should separate the cooldowns so Infernal can be used... sometimes.. at least.

[Omaric 246]

Never.  Ever.  Use.  Your.  Infernal.  Like...I think the only place this is applicable is the first Nazgrim pull with all those mobs and that's a stretch because the damage done to them is meaningless while your Doomguard could put meaningful damage into Nazgrim.  Infernal Awakening is where all of your damage is coming from...while he's up, he might as well be on vacation, because his melees and Immolation Aura are absolutely worthless.  Maybe use Infernal on Protectors when all those adds are up in Sun's Desperate Measures...

 

Either way, both CDs are crud. 

 

I for one am glad that these CD's aren't that spectacular.  I played an Ele Shaman in Cataclysm and I can tell you that having a major chunk of your damage tied to a 10 min CD sucks a lot.  It's better now that large CD's reset on wipes/kills, but it's still a variable.

[Soulzar 42]

Nope

 

Confused to say the least.  I was about to debate this and checked my logs and they are way messed up.  The Coefficient of the Dot looks to be updating based on your SP after the CB has hit?  Perhaps somebody more proficient with expression editor can find out when my procs are dropping to make sense of this for me.

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pjkafg88wkvb8nah/

 

[20:23:17.947]  Soulzar begins to cast Chaos Bolt

[20:23:19.263]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[20:23:20.680]  Soulzar begins to cast Chaos Bolt

[20:23:21.022]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *2090620*

[20:23:21.022] Malkorok afflicted by Chaos Bolt from  Soulzar

[20:23:21.989]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *104625*

[20:23:22.107]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[20:23:23.006]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *104625*

[20:23:23.876] Malkorok's Chaos Bolt is refreshed by  Soulzar

[20:23:23.876]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *2024069*

[20:23:24.005]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *101154*

[20:23:24.985]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*

[20:23:26.015]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*

[20:23:27.007]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*

[20:23:27.007]  Soulzar's Chaos Bolt fades from Malkorok

 

So here we can see I cast two Chaos Bolts before the dot has run its duration.  

 

2090620 * 0.15 / 3 = 104625 as you would expect.

2024069 * 0.15 / 3 = 101154 as you would expect

 

What the hell is 84295?  Well that is the Dot value for a 1.68m Chaos Bolt, which never happened.  This is the value of my Chaos Bolt with one of my 2 trinkets procs, not both as shown in the 3rd sample.

 

So the above looks like it did not clip as there were 6 ticks ... but it also looks like the CB dot is updating itself based on the Spellpower when it is applied as it is updated to the second Chaos Bolt dot value after it refreshes, however immediately drops in value before the next Chaos bolt hits.  

 

If I am interpreting this correctly, its very broken. However... its not consistent?

 

[21:24:15.283]  Soulzar begins to cast Chaos Bolt

[21:24:16.292]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[21:24:16.292]  Soulzar begins to cast Chaos Bolt

[21:24:17.757]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[21:24:18.062]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *2092519*

[21:24:18.062] Malkorok afflicted by Chaos Bolt from  Soulzar

[21:24:19.040]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *104625*

[21:24:19.484] Malkorok's Chaos Bolt is refreshed by  Soulzar

[21:24:19.484]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *2023243*

[21:24:20.052]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *101494*

[21:24:21.022]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *101493*

[21:24:22.063]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84578*

[21:24:23.033]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84578*

[21:24:23.033]  Soulzar's Chaos Bolt fades from Malkorok

 

In this pull, the same thing happens... however one CB dot tick is missing.  Clipped?  I don't know, there looks to be 4 ticks after the second CB hits....and again, the value of the tick decreases. without another Chaos Bolt hit to update/clip/refresh.

 

[21:08:12.886]  Soulzar begins to cast Chaos Bolt

[21:08:13.935]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[21:08:13.935]  Soulzar begins to cast Chaos Bolt

[21:08:15.386]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[21:08:15.875] Malkorok afflicted by Chaos Bolt from  Soulzar

[21:08:15.875]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *1687241*

[21:08:16.870]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*

[21:08:17.324] Malkorok's Chaos Bolt is refreshed by  Soulzar

[21:08:17.324]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *1684296*

[21:08:17.881]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84578*

[21:08:18.920]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84578*

[21:08:19.862]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84578*

[21:08:20.877]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84578*

[21:08:20.878]  Soulzar's Chaos Bolt fades from Malkorok

 

In this opener, I am not sure what happened.. I probably got knocked up.  but for whatever reason it looks like I only had one of my two trinkets up, my CB's hit for 1.68m instead of 2m... and my dot ticks reflect the lower value correctly.  Notice my dot does not decrease, likely because it was already initially applied after the initial int proc had dropped.  Its the same value as the above examples, for the later ticks... 

 

I wonder if this got changed when they fixed the way they were applying Sac to F&B?

 

I always assumed since my Combat text shows multiple dots when i chain two BC's together, that the dots were unique.. but logs show they are not.. and look to be updating dynamically with SP.

[Zagam 1,983]

Pretty sure I stated before that CB ticks don't clip.  They happen regardless, so there is no need to weave another spell between CBs.  CB away with procs.  The only way to really clip it is if you somehow beat the Pandemic barrier of having another CB land before 2 ticks of the previous DoT fade.  I can imagine that only being possibe under RIDICULOUS Haste effects.

 

The DoT from CB acts just like all other DoTs.  It has a 3 second duration, tick interval of 1 second, and it is affected by Pandemic.  Because Pandemic can only apply half duration and it is an even number second duration DoT, it likely loses a tick if you apply another CB before the 2nd tick happens.  However, if the game actually programs it correctly and it allows for Pandemic to give 1.5 seconds to the CB debuff, then it should never clip the 2nd value and only add the next three ticks after the application tick much like you linked in the first example.  I'll need to look at my own logs and see if I see clipping.  I'm pretty sure I saw a blue post saying that CB doesn't clip.

[Omaric 246]

Pretty sure I stated before that CB ticks don't clip.  They happen regardless, so there is no need to weave another spell between CBs.  CB away with procs.  The only way to really clip it is if you somehow beat the Pandemic barrier of having another CB land before 2 ticks of the previous DoT fade.  I can imagine that only being possibe under RIDICULOUS Haste effects.

 

His point is that every tick of one instance of a CB should all be the same damage.  His samplings are showing that some ticks are ticking for varying amounts of damage *and* he's missing ticks.  Looks buggy to me.

[Zagam 1,983]

Nah, remember DoT spells are calculated UPON APPLICATION ALWAYS.

 

Direct spells = when spell cast is executed excluding travel time.  So CB's DIRECT DAMAGE is calculated upon casting the spell. 

 

The DoT portion is calculated when the CB ACTUALLY HITS.  I think that's where you all are confused expecting the values to be the same.  You WILL lose some of your original value CB DoT damage with travel time if procs fall off.

[Zagam 1,983]

My best guess, and probably can be confirmed, is this happened:

 

1st CB CAST = trinkets up

1st CB DoT = trinkets up

2nd CB CAST = trinkets up

2nd CB DoT = trinkets not up - thus lower damage, 80k on tick down from 100k+

[Omaric 246]

Nah, remember DoT spells are calculated UPON APPLICATION ALWAYS.

 

Direct spells = when spell cast is executed excluding travel time.  So CB's DIRECT DAMAGE is calculated upon casting the spell. 

 

The DoT portion is calculated when the CB ACTUALLY HITS.  I think that's where you all are confused expecting the values to be the same.  You WILL lose some of your original value CB DoT damage with travel time if procs fall off.

 

That doesn't explain how the DoT's are ticking for varying amounts of damage.  If the DoT damage is calculated when it hits the target, why aren't all the DoT ticks for the CB the same?

 

It also doesn't explain why a DoT tick would be missing.

 

Edit: Look at this first log:

 

[20:23:21.022]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *2090620*  <<< 1st CB

[20:23:21.022] Malkorok afflicted by Chaos Bolt from  Soulzar

[20:23:21.989]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *104625*  <<< 1st CB DoT

[20:23:22.107]  Soulzar casts Chaos Bolt on Malkorok

[20:23:23.006]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *104625*  <<< 1st CB DoT

[20:23:23.876] Malkorok's Chaos Bolt is refreshed by  Soulzar

[20:23:23.876]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *2024069*  <<< 2nd CB

[20:23:24.005]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *101154*  <<< 1st CB DoT (why is this different?)

[20:23:24.985]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*  <<< 2nd CB DoT

[20:23:26.015]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*  <<< 2nd CB DoT

[20:23:27.007]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*  <<< 2nd CB DoT

[Zagam 1,983]

Yep, check your examples - perfect explanation. 

 

If your 2nd Chaos Bolt hits before the 2nd tick of the first CB's DoT, YOU WILL CLIP a tick, much like you would any other DoT.  Your 2nd CB hits after the 2nd tick in the first example which accounted for all of your ticks.  Pandemic KEPT the power of the first DoT as your 3rd tick, extended the duration, and gave you the 2nd set of 3 ticks on your 2nd CB.

 

On examples 2 and 3, your 2nd CB hit before your 2nd DoT tick, so you lost the 2nd tick of damage from your first CB cast.  The time stamps are close, but you can see this simplified here:

 

1st Example

1st CB HITS

[20:23:21.022]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *2090620*

[20:23:21.989]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *104625*

[20:23:23.006]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *104625* (2nd tick)

2nd CB HITS

[20:23:23.876]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *2024069*

[20:23:24.005]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *101154* (3rd tick of 1st CB via Pandemic)

[20:23:24.985]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295* (DoT power calculated by procs up at time of 2nd CB landing)

[20:23:26.015]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*

[20:23:27.007]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *84295*

[Zagam 1,983]

[20:23:24.005]  Soulzar Chaos Bolt Malkorok *101154*  <<< 1st CB DoT (why is this different?)

Pandemic and DoT reapplication with different procs up.  DoTs are recalculated upon application.  However, it's going to do some weird calculation because it's STILL based off of dmg of first CB but with a new spell power calculation.  The 2nd application DoT is much lower because NO procs were up during this time.

[Omaric 246]

Pretty sure I stated before that CB ticks don't clip.

 

If your 2nd Chaos Bolt hits before the 2nd tick of the first CB's DoT, YOU WILL CLIP a tick, much like you would any other DoT.

 

You sir are going to drive me crazy.

[Zagam 1,983]

Basically, you can clip the 2nd DoT and travel time matters for the DoT application.  If a proc falls off as Chaos Bolt is traveling, you will lose the potential of 15% of the CB damage.