Karayan7

Exodia Mage:A True HS Disgrace

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After Quest Rogue the meta has offered us Exodia Mage.Have spent the last 5 days trying to beat this abominable deck without any luck.Encountered lots of them with Dragon Priest, Element Mage (my favorite and most powerful deck), Kazakus Highlander Priest, Jade Element Shaman and Ramp Druid. Result? 0 W's.

It's not about the loss, it's about the way it comes. All the games were led with the adversary close to 1-5 HP and then all hell breaks loose with the most hideous of game synergies. I mean ,how can these people play always like this,don't they ever get bored by praying to come alive and use that fireball chain?Any suggestions about how to beat the holiness out of them?And yes, i have already tried changing my gameplay from aggro to control to midrange and back again.So annoying...

 

Edited by Karayan7

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I know how you feel,  I have no advice how to beat it. There are always decks which are strong and no fun to play against, like this and Highlander priest. I stopped taking ladder seriously because it's just boring to play against them and in casual games I have no penalties when conceding against those, what I usually do.

And I have asked myself why ppl play such things but it's same as in other games and sadly many players enjoy such a play style, nothing you can do about that. 

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First, if you encounter a lot of Exodia Mage, you can teach against them (Eater of Secrets for example).

 

Second, you have to play your deck adapting to your opponent. You know how they say, "If you know yourself and know your enemies...". For example, you have to put a lot of attenction to the clock, to how many turn you need to kill your opponent with actual board (read the legend in the making guide for more details).

 

Thirdly, you need to know the main play of your opponent: they have at least 2 frost nova, then 1 or 2 blizzards, coupled with 2 doomsayer. You can't play around the freezing, but you can play around the doomsayer if you save the right removal. 4 freezing effect + 2 ice block can save them for only 6 turns: it's not that much.

Then yes, there is RNG, maybe they draw a dream hand and complete the quest and exodia in the first 10 cards of their deck, who know. But if you play right, you can improve a lot your winrate.

Last but not least, can you provide some replays?

 

PS: I'm not the best player of HS, so take my suggestion with a grain of salt. But I still believe that both quest mage and quest rogue could be dealt a lot better with a strathegy in mind better then "I lost to OP deck is not my fault!". I came from Yugioh, and there it happen everytime, and this is one of the reason now I'm into hearthstone :)

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I like your positive attitude but It is not only about beating them, it's about ppl playing cancer decks which are no fun to face.

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21 hours ago, Synesthesy said:

First, if you encounter a lot of Exodia Mage, you can teach against them (Eater of Secrets for example).

 

Second, you have to play your deck adapting to your opponent. You know how they say, "If you know yourself and know your enemies...". For example, you have to put a lot of attenction to the clock, to how many turn you need to kill your opponent with actual board (read the legend in the making guide for more details).

 

Thirdly, you need to know the main play of your opponent: they have at least 2 frost nova, then 1 or 2 blizzards, coupled with 2 doomsayer. You can't play around the freezing, but you can play around the doomsayer if you save the right removal. 4 freezing effect + 2 ice block can save them for only 6 turns: it's not that much.

Then yes, there is RNG, maybe they draw a dream hand and complete the quest and exodia in the first 10 cards of their deck, who know. But if you play right, you can improve a lot your winrate.

Last but not least, can you provide some replays?

 

PS: I'm not the best player of HS, so take my suggestion with a grain of salt. But I still believe that both quest mage and quest rogue could be dealt a lot better with a strathegy in mind better then "I lost to OP deck is not my fault!". I came from Yugioh, and there it happen everytime, and this is one of the reason now I'm into hearthstone :)

Thank you for your response!I would like to answer to your points.

First, please do explain what do you mean by "teach against them"?Just add Eater of Secrets or something else?

Second,you know it's merely impossible to "know" an opponent you only meet once in a ladder game,so i'm ok with adaptation but this needs also studying the adversary ,which is not easy in this context.As for the clock,yes i 've read extensively Aleco's guide and i am still trying to implement this aspect in my game.The results i guess will be seen after a lot of practice.

Third, the RNG factor makes also importantly difficult to manage a late effect such as Exodia's endgame play and as much as i recognize it since the beginning it has always been a trouble to control and defeat it.

Unfortunately i was from my tablet lately,there i don't use tracker software,but i will try doing it on my pc and upload something on occasion.Thanks again!

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4 hours ago, Karayan7 said:

Second,you know it's merely impossible to "know" an opponent you only meet once in a ladder game,so i'm ok with adaptation but this needs also studying the adversary ,which is not easy in this context.

You don't necessarily have to recognize and learn from a specific opponent, just a deck archetype. Quest decks have to telegraph pretty early what their game plan is, so identification is not really a problem. If you are facing several quest mages, you can remember what worked/didn't previously. If you only faced one or two, just deal with it and move on. Sometimes the cards line up just right for your opponent, and there's not much you can do about it. Sometimes they line up just right for you also, but somehow that doesn't feel as bad.

IMO, the primary counter against Quest mage is aggro, but that is speaking as a player who uses a lot of fast decks. If they draw all their combo pieces and complete their quest, they just win, so you need to kill them before that happens. Of course all of the freeze tools can make that very difficult if they draw well.

In a slower deck, one other tech card that can help against quest mage if you get really lucky is Dirty Rat. They require several combo pieces to make their OTK work, and if you can pull one out and kill it early they may be unable to capitalize on their extra turn.

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3 hours ago, zifmia said:

IMO, the primary counter against Quest mage is aggro

It figures and it's also fine by me since i prefer a more aggressive approach on my Elemental Mage deck,although i like also its midrange nature.

3 hours ago, zifmia said:

In a slower deck, one other tech card that can help against quest mage if you get really lucky is Dirty Rat

Which card are you referring to?Archmage Antonidas or maybe Sorcerer's Apprentice?Ofc this is a wild shot to include just one card hoping to kill just another specific one,don't you think?

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4 hours ago, Karayan7 said:

Which card are you referring to?Archmage Antonidas or maybe Sorcerer's Apprentice?Ofc this is a wild shot to include just one card hoping to kill just another specific one,don't you think?

If you use Dirty Rat on their Archmage and you kill him before they can put 4 Apprentice on board, you have won. In wild I have just won a game against an exodia mage in wild with a good thinking: I was playing a Reno Priest, and I plaied: Deathlord, killed him with power word, summon his Antonidas, kill him with other power word.

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Playing midrange hunter wrecks this deck because of Tundra Rhino. They can keep freezing your board but you can keep attacking with new minions and use hero power. Even after 3 ice blocks, still get the job done :)

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7 hours ago, Karayan7 said:

It figures and it's also fine by me since i prefer a more aggressive approach on my Elemental Mage deck,although i like also its midrange nature.

Which card are you referring to?Archmage Antonidas or maybe Sorcerer's Apprentice?Ofc this is a wild shot to include just one card hoping to kill just another specific one,don't you think?

Dirty Rat against Quest Mage is little different than it is against anything else. 

Just like Freeze Mage, most of the deck consists of stall and bunch of draw minions. 

Once your opponent played draw minions, rest of the minions are combo pieces, making it easier for you to hit one with Rat and finish the game at that point.

Of course this is not always a good counter, thanks to several spells mage can discover, namely Simulacrum and one extra copy of Molten Reflection.

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I recently killed a Exodia mage on turn 3  with a crazy murloc snowball. Statistics show Paladin wins more than half it's matchups against exodia mage. I don't know how though...My murlocs are not always as Lethal as that one time. Playing very aggressive gives you a chance though...but that basically means finish on turn 4 before they start their freeze-whining. I must admit a deck capable of finishing on turn 4 is almost as pathetic as one that freezes the board 24 times.

Edit:
I own open the waygate for months now and haven't even put it in a deck once.
Just die freeze mage.

Edited by Esthirel
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There is no such thing as a cancer deck and I'm so sick of this attitude.

 

If you don't like what people are playing, because they CHOOSE to play it, which is THEIR right, just leave the game. Nobody cares.

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2 hours ago, SithLordOfSnark said:

There is no such thing as a cancer deck and I'm so sick of this attitude.

If you don't like what people are playing, because they CHOOSE to play it, which is THEIR right, just leave the game. Nobody cares.

I think that if the deck has no real counter that can stop it, then I get it. But even Patron Warrior had counters. As long as a counter exists, it's just a strong deck. If you have to add cards specifically to beat it to your deck, then that's just kind of how Hearthstone plays I guess. You can't face something 10 times, lose 10 times, change nothing and then expect to win.

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6 hours ago, SithLordOfSnark said:

There is no such thing as a cancer deck and I'm so sick of this attitude.

 

If you don't like what people are playing, because they CHOOSE to play it, which is THEIR right, just leave the game. Nobody cares.

People are just saying what they think and feel, which is absolutely ok, imo. No need mess around with your capslock. :)

3 hours ago, Blainie said:

I think that if the deck has no real counter that can stop it, then I get it. But even Patron Warrior had counters. As long as a counter exists, it's just a strong deck. If you have to add cards specifically to beat it to your deck, then that's just kind of how Hearthstone plays I guess. You can't face something 10 times, lose 10 times, change nothing and then expect to win.

In the first post he mentioned that he tried different things, I think no one said you can start to win by changing nothing ;)

And for the cancer thing: Ofc everyone can play what they like. I will just never get it why so many prefer to play the things which are totally no fun to face.

Edited by Caldyrvan
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8 hours ago, SithLordOfSnark said:

There is no such thing as a cancer deck and I'm so sick of this attitude.

 

If you don't like what people are playing, because they CHOOSE to play it, which is THEIR right, just leave the game. Nobody cares.

We are discussing here.No need for aggressive expressions, "loud" writing or negative attitude.If you don't have something important or constructive to share,then by any means please......don't!

That said, IMO Exodia Mage is a deck born of some very tricky mind just to renew the interest about one of the most useless quests in Un' Goro expansion. Good thing is he made it,bad thing that it's very annoying and just as everything annoying in this world it attracts a lot of people!

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10 hours ago, SithLordOfSnark said:

There is no such thing as a cancer deck and I'm so sick of this attitude.

If you don't like what people are playing, because they CHOOSE to play it, which is THEIR right, just leave the game. Nobody cares.

I hate exodia mage not because people choose to use it on ladder, but because there is the option to play the deck.

8 hours ago, Blainie said:

I think that if the deck has no real counter that can stop it, then I get it. But even Patron Warrior had counters. As long as a counter exists, it's just a strong deck. If you have to add cards specifically to beat it to your deck, then that's just kind of how Hearthstone plays I guess. You can't face something 10 times, lose 10 times, change nothing and then expect to win.

If a deck has to include counters, or be a built as a counter, then something is not right. Mysterious Challenger was rather game-breaking, and people had to include counters to defeat the deck. Patron wasn't healthy either, and a lot of decks had to add counters to have a chance against patron. You did not have to include counters against mech mage, renolock or midrange shaman, which is why I believe those decks were fine. Patron, secret paladin and exodia mage are (were) not. 

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1 hour ago, positiv2 said:

I hate exodia mage not because people choose to use it on ladder, but because there is the option to play the deck.

If a deck has to include counters, or be a built as a counter, then something is not right. Mysterious Challenger was rather game-breaking, and people had to include counters to defeat the deck. Patron wasn't healthy either, and a lot of decks had to add counters to have a chance against patron. You did not have to include counters against mech mage, renolock or midrange shaman, which is why I believe those decks were fine. Patron, secret paladin and exodia mage are (were) not. 

I still disagree.

First, because exodia mage has not such a high win rate to deserve hate; I don't like to hate a deck just because he is unfair.

Second, because every given deck sufficiently powerfull make other deck include counters or to be built as a counter. It's a natural thing born from tier list, the knowledge of what the pros play and how the ladder system work. When Pirate Warrior was the best deck in HS (both standard and wild), the other deck were strong either if they were built to defeat PW or if they could teach against it. It was the same when the best deck was Midrange Shaman and people started teaching Baron Geddon to kill totems. If PW is the best deck, I'd be crazy to play a super high cost control priest deck that use only Hero Power the first 3 turns, wouldn't I? If I absolutely want to play Control Pirest, I should at least teach a crab or two, maybe a Ooze. Maybe I should modify a little my deck, adding an early AoE or a Potion of Madness.

The same happened for Midrange Shaman and every other T1 deck ever existed. I think that this is wrong only if the T1 deck that sit as the best have a giant win rate. I don't think that it's the place of Quest Mage, I don't even know if it's t1 at all...

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11 hours ago, Blainie said:

I think that if the deck has no real counter that can stop it, then I get it. But even Patron Warrior had counters. As long as a counter exists, it's just a strong deck. If you have to add cards specifically to beat it to your deck, then that's just kind of how Hearthstone plays I guess. You can't face something 10 times, lose 10 times, change nothing and then expect to win.

Well let me tell you a funny fact: 
Exodia mage has an average winrate of 46%....

It's not even ok. Exodia mage has an abysmal winrate. The best way to describe it's class is saying that it is being used as a medieval toilet on ladder :P It's beign shit on. It's in poo-all-over-mode.

Does that make you feel a little better? :)

edit: brb...have to go you know...number 2...

Edited by Esthirel
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7 hours ago, Caldyrvan said:

People are just saying what they think and feel, which is absolutely ok, imo.

You my friend are a wise human being. Not often do people say things that make sense. you struck me by saying such beautiful words right there.

We shouldn't judge each other. An intelligent society would understand nowbody owns the right to tell that something is "good"and other things are 'bad". 

pff..not often do i hear such insightful words.

Edited by Esthirel
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1 hour ago, Synesthesy said:

First, because exodia mage has not such a high win rate to deserve hate; I don't like to hate a deck just because he is unfair.

It's not unfair. It is just super annoying to play against. Win or lose, the game is boring and annoying. Quest Rogue or Pirate Warrior matchups required you to play well. Against exodia mage, you just slam face and see them play spells with no interactivity. Same for freeze mage - you usually win, but getting through all the AoE, freezes and Ice Blocks is just so annoying.

1 hour ago, Synesthesy said:

If PW is the best deck, I'd be crazy to play a super high cost control priest deck that use only Hero Power the first 3 turns, wouldn't I? If I absolutely want to play Control Pirest, I should at least teach a crab or two, maybe a Ooze. Maybe I should modify a little my deck, adding an early AoE or a Potion of Madness.

And what you got was deck including a high number of cookie cutters. If you want to play a deck, you shouldn't need to dedicate half of it to tech cards. 

49 minutes ago, Esthirel said:

Exodia mage has an average winrate of 46%....
It's not even ok. Exodia mage has an abysmal winrate.

According to Vicious Syndicate's Data Reaper Live, there is only 7% win rate difference between the best deck at legend (tempo rogue at 53%) and exodia mage. So, I would not call a 46% win rate abysmal.

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3 minutes ago, positiv2 said:

According to Vicious Syndicate's Data Reaper Live, there is only 7% win rate difference between the best deck at legend (tempo rogue at 53%) and exodia mage. So, I would not call a 46% win rate abysmal.

Ok the numbers I found are an average from all ranks. Maybe it's not abysmal as a number but realizing the pain you have to go trough playing this deck and then lose more than win as well!This makes it very special ppl play it in such high numbers. It's the most played deck (sharing 1st place with Jade Druid).  Of course they can play it and a guess they like it. It's just a feeling I personally cannot reproduce. The w/l ratio  is dissapointing at least in my opinion.

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Two recent matches against EM using a hybrid Lich Jade Druid and a straightforward Midrange Hunter.Both were won on aggro approach just before they unleashed chaos.Critical card draw and avoiding gross mistakes (some others were made i believe) were keys to victory.Now i can rest my soul that this ugly deck is not unbeatable!

59cbd4ee6332e_HearthstoneScreenshot09-26-1720_25_50.thumb.png.9345f2ec1a9d1c06d111ec2ef328ff3d.png

59cbd553e2c8a_HearthstoneScreenshot09-27-1719_34_45.thumb.png.baa962a566a3e25022fd376fbad53975.png

 

Edited by Karayan7
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Use Eater of secrets in single copy in each deck to remove the Block when you have lethal, and never attack their minions if they play quest since they play extremely weak minions and have no way to lethal you using them.

Aggro decks like hunter ,murlocs or pirates have easy time since they have loads of face dmg and enemy have no minions to trade on all the stuff they play ending the game at 5th turn

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5 hours ago, Hanz39 said:

Aggro decks like hunter ,murlocs or pirates have easy time since they have loads of face dmg and enemy have no minions to trade on all the stuff they play ending the game at 5th turn

That is ofc with a very good mulligan and continuation draw and avoiding all the freeze-AoE spells ;)

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