Zadina

Rogue Quest Is Getting Nerfed

23 posts in this topic

MYSzo5v.jpg

In an upcoming balance update, the Rogue Quest (The Caverns Below) will be changed to be less powerful.

Almost three months after the release of Journey to Un'Goro, Team 5 has decided that it's time to tone down Quest Rogue. Soon, The Caverns Below will require 5 minions of the same name to be played, instead of four.

Blizzard LogoZaerhinon

In an upcoming update, we will be making a balance change to the Rogue card:
The Caverns Below.

The Caverns Below now reads: 
Quest: Play five minions with the same name. Reward: Crystal Core.

Since the release of Journey to Un'Goro, Hearthstone has enjoyed a wider variety of competitively viable classes and decks than ever before. We’ve been monitoring overall gameplay, and we’ve decided that—even though everything is varied and many decks are viable—a change to The Caverns Below is still warranted.

The Caverns Below is uniquely powerful versus several slower, control-oriented decks and played often enough that it’s pushing those decks out of play. This change should help expand the deck options available to players both now and after the release of the next expansion. (source)

While Quest Rogue isn't as overpowered as most people think, it is almost unbeatable against control decks. It has also created many aggro decks that directly counter it and are also efficient against midrange and control decks.

According to the latest Vicious Syndicate report, Quest or Crystal Rogue is characterised as a Tier 2 deck with a 51% win rate in Legend. Rogue is also one of the most represented classes in Legend. The same report summarises very well why Quest Rogue has been problematic in the current meta:

Quote

Is the Journey to Un’Goro meta losing its balance? It appears to be the case, and the primary culprit is Crystal Rogue. Its overbearing presence at the highest levels of play is crippling some decks while enabling some of its aggressive counters. Crystal Rogue is not dominating the game, but it’s definitely getting stronger across all levels of play [...]

The date for the balance update hasn't been announced yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too little too late. You can't ignore something for half an expansion and then come up with this simple of a fix. No excuse for taking this long and essentially killing your player base.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Laragon said:

Too little too late. You can't ignore something for half an expansion and then come up with this simple of a fix. No excuse for taking this long and essentially killing your player base.

I disagree. Cards do not rotate out in every expansion. So, having quest rogue as it is for 5 more expansion, with more possible synergy is the problem (maybe next year, it will be weaker after Gadgetzan Ferryman). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they had to do this kind of nerf else they would have to forget about printing 1\2 mana neutral\rogue minions with good battlecries\combos. 

On other hand, I am worried about jade druid era. We lost the best counter against it. 

Edited by Strongpoint
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Laragon said:

Too little too late. You can't ignore something for half an expansion and then come up with this simple of a fix. No excuse for taking this long and essentially killing your player base.

Yea, I'm sure one quest is the reason a ton of people would just outright quit...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, idburns said:

Yea, I'm sure one quest is the reason a ton of people would just outright quit...

Actually, it is. I know of three people that had quitted because of quest rogue (myself nearly as well), and even though they are likely coming back after the nerf, it makes it easy to believe that there were people that quit for good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you might know they would nerf it right before I had enough dust to purchase the quest card lol,  but on the other hand I am glad because this quest is the easiest of all the classes to perform making rogues all but unbeatable, hell I have faced oponents who can play the cards reguired all in one turn on the 4th draw and win by the 5th, while every other class has to play 7 or more cards just to do there quest wich ends up being usless anyway due to already being beaten too bad to use the quest or having the activater card stolen/destroyed/silenced rendering the whole deck useless.

 

Now if they if they Nerf the unbeatable wall of taunt warrior quest that leads to instant win Ragnaros power or the easy to finish priest quest that essentially makes them an invincible fatigue deck with reno and other mass heal cards, we might be able to see more balanced wins in ranked play.

In all Honesty tho some of the quests dont make sense or fit the class, like why make warlocks discard half there deck for infinite spawning 2/3 cards that are too weak to be any help and take up 3 spots on the field permanently, Or hunter quest that requires you to play so many little 1 cost cards you are so weak you have no way of coming back with the 15 2/3s to make a difference?

in closing I have said for years this game is horribly imbalanced, your opponent ether beats you into a pulp by turn 4-5 or drags it out for 40+ turns with perfect defense to where you ether lose to fatigue or quit in frustration. 30 health is too low they need to give us like 50-60, or give both players a base starting mana of 2 and get rid of the redundant coin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a joke honestly, quest rogue was already just mid tier deck, even tho its really uniteractive this is just excessive, nerfing a deck that wasn't a problem in the first place. This is what happens when Blizzard listens to Reddit instead of people who actually understand whats an issue in this game. If there was any card to nerf for being too problematic it would be every single time Primordial Glyph instead of The Caverns Below. This is honestly disgustingly bad joke, pushes rogue, an already below average class even further into the niche and will make the meta get completely out of control as there will be no real deck to punish control decks anymore. Rogue will probably become another dead class, joining hunter and warlock. This is both infuriating and disappointing and makes me lose all faith in Blizzard when it comes to balancing their games. If they would revert one change in this game it would be this for sure every single time. This nerf is a huge buff to already prominent control decks and removes one of the "gatekeeper" decks that held the meta from becoming just control vs control clown fiesta. I guess I will quit Hearthstone till next expansion, thanks for the memories, but you are dead game now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BrightwingMain said:

This is a joke honestly, quest rogue was already just mid tier deck, even tho its really uniteractive this is just excessive, nerfing a deck that wasn't a problem in the first place. This is what happens when Blizzard listens to Reddit instead of people who actually understand whats an issue in this game. If there was any card to nerf for being too problematic it would be every single time Primordial Glyph instead of The Caverns Below. This is honestly disgustingly bad joke, pushes rogue, an already below average class even further into the niche and will make the meta get completely out of control as there will be no real deck to punish control decks anymore. Rogue will probably become another dead class, joining hunter and warlock. This is both infuriating and disappointing and makes me lose all faith in Blizzard when it comes to balancing their games. If they would revert one change in this game it would be this for sure every single time. This nerf is a huge buff to already prominent control decks and removes one of the "gatekeeper" decks that held the meta from becoming just control vs control clown fiesta. I guess I will quit Hearthstone till next expansion, thanks for the memories, but you are dead game now.

The best deck against a control deck is jade druid? It laughs at control decks. The jade Golems keep coming and after the control deck removed them so many times they still keep coming..they have infinite spawning ability and that is what is the best cure for control.

The meta is not exactly showing control as the leading decktype. As explained above quest rogue isnt overpowered ..it's just killing the slow deck types completely and that is unwanted. When you can nerf 1 decktype and regain more than 1 that gives you a more balanced meta. That's a good thing to be honest.

Also is Quest rogue such a solo game that it's not the most fun deck to face a lot.  I say: Nerf that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Were Jade Druids ever nerfed? I feel this nerf is primarily needed because the Quest Rogue (yes, it is strong) is creating too many counters and overall those decks are a pain in the butt for more complex archetypes that are late game oriented.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And in the meantime, YARRRRR! Warrior will still axe questions to the face like there's no tomorrow and Living Meme Druid will still demonstrate that his bark is just as bad as his bite; since either of these decks are too fast for both control decks and solo Rogue with a good draw... Not really certain this will slow the meta down at all.

Oh, well, I was planning to save up for Sherazin, Corpse Flower and get back to Ravioli anyway.

 

5 hours ago, Esthirel said:

Also is Quest rogue such a solo game that it's not the most fun deck to face a lot.

That, however, is true. Frustrating to play against and just as frustrating to play with; turning Hearthstone into a solo game. (*ahem* Freeze Mage *ahem*). I won't be sorry to see it go. Hell i wouldn't be sorry to see Quests go as a whole. Good idea; terrible implementation.

...

I just summarized Blizzard for the last ten years, didn't I?

Edited by Keizoku

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's not forget that game is not all about competitive games. Quest rogue destroys slower fun decks. If you make something like jade rogue or elemental N'zoth mage or quest paladin or whatever like this you will be destroyed in a very unfun way. It is way worse than playing against Karazhan Mid Range Shaman or MSG pirate warrior\aggro shaman with out of meta decks. 

 

Another important issue is that quest rogue is a very nasty deck to encounter for a new player with limited experience and collection. Look at any of basic only decks on this site. They are not that bad against meta-decks piloted by rank 20-15 players but quest rogue will rip basic decks to pieces because they are not fast enough and have zero tools to deal with 5\5 boards.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A week after release I thought, and still think, the idea of quests sounded cool ... in theory but in really they are not a good or healthy addition to the game. Not only the rogue quest. Quest are the reason why I stopped playing ranked , just getting to 20. It's not like I cant win but grinding my way through this cancer again and again is simply no fun.

And nerfing rogue quest from 4 to 5 minions definitely makes it weaker but still no fun to play against.

Edited by Caldyrvan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, BrightwingMain said:

This is a joke honestly, quest rogue was already just mid tier deck, even tho its really uniteractive this is just excessive, nerfing a deck that wasn't a problem in the first place. This is what happens when Blizzard listens to Reddit instead of people who actually understand whats an issue in this game. If there was any card to nerf for being too problematic it would be every single time Primordial Glyph instead of The Caverns Below. This is honestly disgustingly bad joke, pushes rogue, an already below average class even further into the niche and will make the meta get completely out of control as there will be no real deck to punish control decks anymore. Rogue will probably become another dead class, joining hunter and warlock. This is both infuriating and disappointing and makes me lose all faith in Blizzard when it comes to balancing their games. If they would revert one change in this game it would be this for sure every single time. This nerf is a huge buff to already prominent control decks and removes one of the "gatekeeper" decks that held the meta from becoming just control vs control clown fiesta. I guess I will quit Hearthstone till next expansion, thanks for the memories, but you are dead game now.

Ben Brode states that he is surprised how popular Quest Rogue is when taking its win rate in account, and that there has never been a deck so "bad" yet so popular. That is why it was a problem - it was taking up a huge % of decks on ladder.

I feel like Quest Rogue isn't really non interactive. You can fight against their board, which is not the case against for example most mage decks these days. I would take Quest Rogue over Freeze/Quest/Burn Mage as my opponent any day, with any deck.

Reddit is complaining about Vicious Fledgling all the time (once I saw like 6 threads about the card on the front page). If Blizz was listening to Reddit, Vicious Fledgling would be the card getting a nerf. Besides, if that's what the majority of players want, they will probably do it. After all, they need to keep their playerbase. Losing few hardcore players is better for them than losing a lot of casuals.

There are still other aggro decks that will fight against control decks, so no need to worry about the game becoming control vs control all the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of the other quests are along the lines of "do something you might want to do anyway, but do more of it and get a reward". Warlocks routinely discard cards by playing Doomguard or Soulfire, can you discard 6 cards? Every paladin deck runs Spikeridged Steed, but they have numerous other buffs like Blessing of Kings. Can you play 6 buff cards? It turns out the answer to the question posed by most of the quests is no, if you want to be competitive.

Every mage deck runs 2x primordial glyph, and babbling book, kabal courier, cabalist's tome are all cards that see play, so it is at least plausible that someone could build a mage deck that accidentally fulfills the quest condition occasionally. Discard warlocks want to play soulfire, doomguard, etc, so playing a discard zoo deck you would probably discard 6 cards sometimes.

The reason Quest Warrior is competitive is because control warrior wants to play a LOT of taunts anyway, and if you just removed the quest card from a Quest Warrior deck, it would still be playable. Quest warrior actually mulligans its quest in a lot of matchups. If you built a control warrior deck without using the quest, you would likely fulfill the quest condition in many games just playing naturally.

The quest condition in Quest rogue is completely unnatural. Yes, shadowstep is a card that sees play in miracle decks, which might occasionally result in them playing 3 of the same name. But there is basically no way you would ever design a rogue deck without the quest in mind and notice during play-- that's odd, I just played a minion with that name 4 times.  Also the quest reward is only significant if your minions will be buffed by turning into 5/5s. So you are forced into something that looks like quest rogue decks-- full of tiny minions and bounce effects, with zero early game pre-quest, a strong mid game post-quest if you manage to complete before dying to aggro, and no answer for a late-game control deck that manages to hold out against the initial wave of 5/5s until turn 8+.

I think the 4 minion condition was actually pretty well tuned. On average, aggro decks will kill you and your pathetic 1/1 minions around turn 6 if you haven't managed to complete the quest and stabilize. Control decks will start to laugh at your pathetic 5/5 minions around turn 8-9. If you are lucky and complete quickly, you might outrace an aggro deck. If you are slow and complete too late, you probably die to control. There is a narrow window in the middle where quest rogue is dominant. Even if the 5 minion condition just pushes back average quest completion by 1 turn, that window will shrink to unplayability.

Which will make this just as bad as all of the other quests (except warrior), so maybe that is by design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm. Looking at Vicious Syndicate maybe they are fixing a problem I haven't seen because I have never made legend yet. VS show that Quest rogue is the most popular archetype at legend ranks at  13.26%.  But it is only the 5th most popular archetype where I am in ranks 1-5 at  7.26%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, zifmia said:

All of the other quests are along the lines of "do something you might want to do anyway, but do more of it and get a reward". Warlocks routinely discard cards by playing Doomguard or Soulfire, can you discard 6 cards? Every paladin deck runs Spikeridged Steed, but they have numerous other buffs like Blessing of Kings. Can you play 6 buff cards? It turns out the answer to the question posed by most of the quests is no, if you want to be competitive.

It is true for the current meta but we have 5 expansion before quests go wild. Warlocks will get new discard synergy cards, paladins will get buffs, priests will get deathrattles, hunters will get one drops... 

I am not saying that currently non-viable quest are guaranteed to become competitive, but they  definitely will grow stronger and it is a possibility that we may see them in tournaments. I am not even sure that 5 cards quest rogue won't become viable again in the next expansion(s)

Quests are not like C'thun or Jade golems. They will get cards that work with them in every expansion. Try to look in the future instead of evaluation deck archetypes by looking at the current pool of cards. One of reasons why quest rogue nerf is necessary - they'll become stronger with any fast one or two drop.

 

19 minutes ago, zifmia said:

Hmmm. Looking at Vicious Syndicate maybe they are fixing a problem I haven't seen because I have never made legend yet. VS show that Quest rogue is the most popular archetype at legend ranks at  13.26%.  But it is only the 5th most popular archetype where I am in ranks 1-5 at  7.26%.

That 7.26% indirectly resulted in my first ever legend this month. I got so pissed playing against quest rogues that I went for pirate warrior to smash some Maiev's faces

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Moos said:

Were Jade Druids ever nerfed? I feel this nerf is primarily needed because the Quest Rogue (yes, it is strong) is creating too many counters and overall those decks are a pain in the butt for more complex archetypes that are late game oriented.

No Jade druid is never nerfed. I don't claim it has been I just explain Control is dominated by more decktypes than just cancer decks. On the other hand I must admit I really don't enjoy playing against a jade druid as well.It has a similar problem to quest rogue being that the luck of the draw of the Rogue/Druid will decide most of the time who wins. I'd rather win because i made the right decisions in the game ;)

In fact everything containing the word jade pushes me away. The spawning a bigger minion everytime  doesn't complement the game at all. It's a dissonant among the different game mechanics in Hearthstone.

Murlocs f.e. are a brilliant concept compared to jade blabla..so much more layered than the never surprising next bigger jade golem.

Don Han Cho is pure maffia and should be a powerful boss.. Crafted him right after Gadgetzan released. Soo cool and soo powerful  but he doesnt bring me the win??

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/29/2017 at 6:53 AM, Strongpoint said:

It is true for the current meta but we have 5 expansion before quests go wild. Warlocks will get new discard synergy cards, paladins will get buffs, priests will get deathrattles, hunters will get one drops... I a

m not saying that currently non-viable quest are guaranteed to become competitive, but they  definitely will grow stronger and it is a possibility that we may see them in tournaments.

I disagree, with the exception of the priest one.  The warlock, hunter, and paladin quests are pretty flawed.  The hunter one will pretty much never be viable.  Hunters need the board to win, they have no come back mechanisms.  Having to shove a ton of 1 drops in your deck then not playing one on turn one pretty much guarantees that the quest will never be good.  Too low value, too many deck building restrictions and the quest reward simply isn't good enough.  Similar problem for the warlock one, not a good enough reward, too clunky in a zoo type deck, and discarding cards in a control deck is BAD, especially when you can just play mister J instead.  Paladin one COULD become viable if they print some absolutely broken buffs, but they would have to be very very strong, buffs are inherently weak, since putting them on your minions means you can get 2 or 3 for 1ed by your opponents removal and creatures.  Plus galvadon just isn't that strong, good for a finisher in a faster deck, but for a slower deck, its pretty meeeeeh.  The priest one could become good though.  It is good in wild.  Though I doubt it, but that one is a possibility.  The two cards in wild that make it good are sludge belcher and death lord, so if we get some good taunt/death rattles (Or deathrattles that heal a lot), then yes, otherwise this one will also be relegated to obscurity.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, VaraTreledees said:

I disagree, with the exception of the priest one.  The warlock, hunter, and paladin quests are pretty flawed.  The hunter one will pretty much never be viable.  Hunters need the board to win, they have no come back mechanisms.  Having to shove a ton of 1 drops in your deck then not playing one on turn one pretty much guarantees that the quest will never be good.  Too low value, too many deck building restrictions and the quest reward simply isn't good enough.  Similar problem for the warlock one, not a good enough reward, too clunky in a zoo type deck, and discarding cards in a control deck is BAD, especially when you can just play mister J instead.  Paladin one COULD become viable if they print some absolutely broken buffs, but they would have to be very very strong, buffs are inherently weak, since putting them on your minions means you can get 2 or 3 for 1ed by your opponents removal and creatures.  Plus galvadon just isn't that strong, good for a finisher in a faster deck, but for a slower deck, its pretty meeeeeh.  The priest one could become good though.  It is good in wild.  Though I doubt it, but that one is a possibility.  The two cards in wild that make it good are sludge belcher and death lord, so if we get some good taunt/death rattles (Or deathrattles that heal a lot), then yes, otherwise this one will also be relegated to obscurity.

I strongly disagree with your evaluation of potential of the warlock quest, Cards with effect like > draw three cards discard two of them or add three 0\1 imps with negative battlecry to your hand as well as cards that like to be discarded can make the quest quite powerful and better than discard zoo without quest

I pretty much agree with the hunter quest evaluation,  Hunter needs board control and skipping turn one is not a great turn one for them. Looks like anything that empowers quest decks will empower other hunter decks more.  

Priest quest is summon, not play... It may be ridiculously easy to complete should blizzard print something silly like deathrattle that summons a deathrattle that summons a deathrattle. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Strongpoint said:

should blizzard print something silly like deathrattle that summons a deathrattle that summons a deathrattle

So a neutral/priest Dreadsteed?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, positiv2 said:

So a neutral/priest Dreadsteed?

Dreadsteed was originally suppose to be neutral but they couldn't do it due to Warsong Commander, hence her nerf. It wasn't just the Grim Patron decks that warranted her nerf, it was a developmental issue for future cards and here we are with the issue with The Caverns Below.  My biggest issue with cards being nerfed is they should be made better the first time around, especially this far into Hearthstone. Sometimes it seems like they don't consider the other cards in existence when they are making new ones. Hopefully they learn from this moving forward but I'm not going to hold my breath. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Strongpoint said:

I strongly disagree with your evaluation of potential of the warlock quest, Cards with effect like > draw three cards discard two of them or add three 0\1 imps with negative battlecry to your hand as well as cards that like to be discarded can make the quest quite powerful and better than discard zoo without quest

I pretty much agree with the hunter quest evaluation,  Hunter needs board control and skipping turn one is not a great turn one for them. Looks like anything that empowers quest decks will empower other hunter decks more.  

Priest quest is summon, not play... It may be ridiculously easy to complete should blizzard print something silly like deathrattle that summons a deathrattle that summons a deathrattle. 

 

A card that causes you to draw three cards then discard two of them would be pretty terrible in zoo, tbh.  Your already lowering your consistency with the quest, on top of possibly missing a drop with the quest.  Meh.  I really don't ever see the warlock quest being good in zoo.  Most of the time when zoo plays doomguard on turn 5, they have nothing to discard.  When your playing an aggressive deck that floods the board, discarding six cards is hard, you simply play too many of them too fast in most cases.  I just don't ever see a world in which discard zoo will be better with that quest.  The control route seems slightly more viable to me, but again, discarding cards is bad when you play control, since you discard the cards that make your deck a control deck half the time, especially because you have to run so many low valueish cards (things like silverware golem and the imp) to make a discard gimmick work.  The quest has too much anti-synergy with both control and zoo lock to be used in either, there might be a deck somewhere at sometime that it might possibly see play, but it won't be zoo or control, and even then, I think its highly highly unlikely.

 

On to the topic of quest rogue, The. Nerfs. Can't. Come. Soon. Enough.  As someone who likes to play slower controlish style decks and miracle rogue, I absolutely detest this deck.  It might not be "too strong", but it is meta warping, and in a bad way.  Any deck that has the sort of match ups quest rogue does (incredibly polarizing one way or another) is inevitably going to warp and change the meta, especially if it is popular.  Forcing players to nearly auto lose if they play something that isn't gunther mage or aggro against a deck is a bad way to design a card game.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Stan
      Blizzard posted changes to game mechanics that will be implemented with with the Boomsday Project 12.0 patch.
      Highlights
      Ghostly Charger will no longer have the Beast tag. Ixlid, Fungal Lord is losing the Elemental tag. Shifter Zerus, Molten Blade, and Shifting Scroll will no longer keep any enchantments when they transform. Voodoo Doll's curse will be broken if you transform the minion that's already been cursed by Voodoo Doll. The transformed (formerly cursed) minion will not be killed when Voodoo Doll dies. Shadowboxer will be updated to deal 1 damage to a random enemy, whenever a minion is healed. Players will be able to disenchant the card for its full Arcane Dust value for two weeks after 12.0 goes live. Blizzard (Source)
      Dr. Boom’s bringing more than just mayhem to the Netherstorm. The 12.0 update will also come with several rule changes to Hearthstone’s gameplay. Read on to learn about another minion Type update, the copy a card rule change and the transform rule change.
      More Minion Type Changes
      There was a ton of feedback following the last minion Type update we posted, and after reviewing all of it, we realized that there were a couple more minions that needed changing. Here are our decisions following the full review of your feedback.
      Ghostly Charger

      We made a decision that, at least by default, spectral/undead/ghost/spirit versions of animals are not considered Beasts in Hearthstone. There are quite a lot of these sort of cards, most of which are already not Beasts, and changing them would have extensive balance implications.
      Ghostly Charger is one of those cards. Clearly a ghost in both its name and art, its Beast tag has also not been relevant in any significantly used interaction. As a result, we’re planning to remove the Beast tag in a future update.
      In the much rarer case of spectral/undead/ghost/spirit versions of Dragons, Murlocs, Pirates, and Elementals, they will still remain their Type. There aren’t a whole lot of these cards, but there are a few, and they’re already consistently their type. Examples of these are Ghost Light Angler, Cursed Castaway, Bone Drake.
      Ixlid, Fungal Lord

      World of Warcraft uses a looser definition of Elemental than what we decided to standardize on for Hearthstone. In Hearthstone, an elemental is something that has been brought to life by being inhabited by an elemental spirit, but is otherwise not alive. These are easy to recognize: a Fire Elemental looks like a living creature made out of fire; A Water Elemental looks like a living creature made out of water.
      One of the biggest outliers to this definition are plant creatures. There are a ton of minions in Hearthstone that are some sort of plant. We’ve decided that these do not count as Elementals in Hearthstone. Examples of these include The Voraxx, Fen Creeper, Biteweed, Vilespine Slayer, Rotten Applebaum.
      Ixlid, Fungal Lord, is by this definition, a plant creature. Although we’re committed to consistency, there are also other criteria that we consider when changing card Types. One of them is how often a card’s current Type matters when it comes to interacting with other cards. Ixlid’s Elemental tag is not significantly used in current decks, so we’ve decided to remove it in a future update.
      We also looked at the following minions but decided against making any changes. We’ve included our thought process as to how we came to our decisions with these cards.
      Kindly Grandmother
      Kindly Grandmother/Big Bad Wolf looks like a Worgen (which are not considered Beasts) but is actually some other sort of wolf-like creature that is a Beast. The Beast tag is also extremely relevant to its gameplay, and defines most of the card’s intended usage. With this in mind, we will not be changing Kindly Grandmother’s/Big Bad Wolf’s Type. In the future, we’ll be more careful to make the art clear when it comes to Worgen or similar races.
      Arcane Giant  & Arcane Golem
      On top of Elementals and plant creatures, there’s another category of things that have been brought to life via magical animation. These are creatures like War Golem, Arcane Giant, and Avian Watcher—which are not Elementals.
      Arcane Giant, Arcane Golem, and The Curator are all examples of another sort of creature collectively referred to as Arcane Golems. These mechanical constructs utilize arcane energy as a power source, with The Curator being a Mech Type as part of his character in the One Night in Karazhan Adventure. This is actually subtly different from something like War Golem, which is carved from stone and then magically animated. While the “golem” definition refers to something that has been magically animated and is therefore neither a Mech nor Elemental, both Arcane Giant and Arcane Golem’s card art don’t clearly show them to be one or the other. Since the correct type for these creatures is so unclear, we will be leaving them unchanged for now, but would love to hear what you think.
      Bogshaper
      Bogshaper seems to be the same type of creature as Ixlid or Fen Creeper, and that would logically lead to removal of its Elemental tag. However, as mentioned above, we look at more than just the fantasy of a card when determining if it needs a Type change. While Bogshaper’s fantasy criteria checkbox is filled, it’s currently heavily utilized in the meta, and features in many decks, including that of the 2018 Summer Champion, Bunnyhoppor.
      We are holding off on changing Bogshaper's Type for now, but would love to hear what the community thinks we should do in this case. We’re also considering making this sort of change when a card rotates to Wild.
      Copy A Card Rule Change

      Card copies currently only retain enchantments when both the original card and its copy are in play—think Molten Reflection. In Update 12.0, this rule will be updated to match the one regarding enchantments being retained when a card transitions zones.
      Zones in Hearthstone are defined as areas where cards are hosted: your deck, your hand, in play, and in the graveyard. In Hearthstone, there is a general forward-moving flow through zones. Whenever a card moves forward in that flow (Deck -> Hand, Hand -> Play, Deck -> Play), it retains enchantments. If a card moves backwards in zones (Play -> Hand, Hand -> Deck, Play -> Deck, Play/Hand/Deck -> Graveyard and Graveyard -> Play/Hand/Deck), it loses enchantments.
      With this update, card copies will retain enchantments in the following scenarios.
      Cards that are resurrected currently do not and will continue not to retain any enchantments, unless specifically stated otherwise. If you copy a card from a deck to a deck, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Archbishop Benedictus) If you copy a card from a hand to a hand, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Mind Vision) If you copy a card from play to play, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Molten Reflection) If you copy a card from a deck to a hand, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Thoughtsteal) If you copy a card from a deck to play, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Mindgames) If you copy a card from hand to play, the copy retains enchantments. (eg. Kobold Illusionist) Transform Rule Change
      When transformed, a Hearthstone card typically loses all of its enchantment. Most cards in game already obey this rule. However, there are four cards that we are changing to keep in line with the rule, as part of this consistency pass.

      Shifter Zerus, Molten Blade, and Shifting Scroll all transform in your hand at the start of every turn. Following the 12.0 update, they will no longer keep any enchantments when they transform. This includes things like hand buffs and Emperor Thaurissan mana-cost discounts.

      The impact on Voodoo Doll is a little different with the update. If you transform the minion that’s already been cursed by Voodoo Doll, the curse will be broken, and the transformed (and formerly cursed) minion will not be killed when Voodoo Doll dies. Silencing the cursed minion will also break the curse, in addition to silencing the Voodoo Doll.
      Shadowboxer Update

      Since the creation of the Lifesteal keyword, Shadowboxer has been a high risk card, in that it can trigger off of itself and deal up to 30 damage in one turn if you ever give it Lifesteal. Because of this, we have changed it to: Whenever a minion is healed, deal 1 damage to a random enemy.
      Once Shadowboxer's card change is live with Update 12.0, players will be able to disenchant it for its full Arcane Dust value for two weeks.
      These are all the changes that you’ll see come into effect with Update 12.0, in line with our commitment to consistency within the game. Let us know what you think in the comments below, or via Facebook and Twitter!
    • By Aleco
      Will these three new Treant cards see play in the meta? Or will they come up short like the hand-size cards from The Witchwood?
       
      Three new Treant-themed cards were revealed today by PCGamer:
       

       
      First up we have Dendrologist. The floor on this card is solid, as a 2 Mana 2/3 is passable in a pinch. The ceiling on Dendrologist is higher than you might think, as his Battlecry is quite strong. Druid might have more high-quality spells than any other class in the game (Wild Growth, Nourish, Ultimate Infestation, Branching Paths, Naturalize, and Savage Roar to name a few), which leads me to believe that Dendrologist will be a powerhouse if Druid gets sufficient Treant support in this expansion.
       

       
      3 Mana for 4/4 worth of stats is already a great deal on its own, and the added Treant synergy puts this card over the top. The fact that this card creates two bodies makes it even better in aggro decks that look to go wide and finish with cards like Fungalmancer. This is a very reasonable card to curve into on turn 3, and it hints that the Treant deck will likely be quite aggressive.
       

       
      Finally we get Mulchmuncher, a big fat Mech with Rush and a dangerously tempting Mana reduction effect. We know from experience with Corridor Creeper and Giant cards how strong it can be to play big Minions for low amounts of Mana, but it won't be that easy to reduce Mulchmuncher's cost. If the Mana Treants from Living Mana count as Treants for this card, then I can easily see Mulchmuncher as finisher in an aggressive Treant decks.
      Will these new Treant cards turn Force of Nature and Witchwood Apple into playable cards? Or do you think the Treant cards will fall flat like the hand-size cards from The Witchwood? Let us know in the comment section, and be sure to check out our Boomsday Hub for more spoilers from the upcoming expansion.
    • By Aleco
      The latest Hearthside Chat with Peter Whalen revealed Supercollider, Flobbidinous Floop, and Whizbang the Wonderful from The Boomsday Project.
       
      In the latest Hearthside Chat, Senior Game Designer Peter Whalen explained some of the themes (science) and inspirations (more science) for The Boomsday Project. In doing so, he spoiled three new incredibly exciting cards. If you're interested in watching the video (which is just 4:59 seconds long), you can do so right here:
       
       
      Card Reveals
       

       
      This card gets an "A" for flavor, as I don't think its possible to come up with a better design for a card called "Supercollider" in a science-themed set.
      This Warrior weapon has the potential to be a 2 or 3 for 1, as it can set up trades quite easily if you attack your opponent's largest minion with it. However, attacking your opponent's largest minion means you will also be dealing plenty of face damage to yourself, making high amounts of armor gain a requirement for putting this card in your deck. For that reason, Supercollider plays excellently with Baku the Mooneater, and I expect it to see play in Odd Warrior decks.
       

       
      Next up is another card with an excellent name, Flobbidinous Floop. This guy provides a Faceless Manipulator-style effect for Druid decks for just 4 Mana, which will almost certainly make him a combo piece in a variety of Druid decks. Between Innervate, Twig of the World Tree, and Biology Project, there will almost certainly a few new OTKs with Flobbidinous Floop. He can also be used in Big Druid decks one turn after playing a huge minion, such as Ysera, Hadronox, or The Lich King, to become a 3/4 copy of a card with a powerful effect. Expect to see plenty of Flobbidinious Floop in the new meta!
       

       
      Next we get Whizbang the Wonderful, which is one of the most unique and exciting cards in the history of Hearthstone. What does he do? Let me show you:
       

       
      Whizbang the Wonderful replaces your entire deck. He replaces your hero, and he names your new deck "Whizbang is Wonderful". When you enter a game with this deck, you will be randomly handed 1 of 18 recent deck recipes by Blizzard at the start of the game.
      Will Whizbang be competitively viable? Almost certainly not, but I think that question is almost entirely missing the point. By adding Whizbang to the game, Blizzard has offered new players a way to access 18 different for just 1600 dust! Though its unlikely these 18 premade decks will be 100% meta optimal, they will almost certainly be viable enough for newer players to climb the earlier ranks while playing a wide variety of decks and learning new cards. This is the closest thing that Blizzard will probably ever do to selling pre-constructed decks (something that many other cards games do), which in my eyes is a major step forward. Will tryhards be disappointed when they open Whizbang? Probably. But not every Legendary minion needs to be a home run for the hardcore audience. Whizbang is the new player's best friend, and will surely add much more joy to the game of Hearthstone than he takes away.
      What do you think about today's spoilers? Will Supercollider see play? Can you find any new OTKs with Flobbidinous Floop? And are you as excited about Whizbang the Wonderful as I am? Let us know in the comments what you think about these new cards, and be sure to check out our Boomsday Hub for more spoilers from the upcoming expansion.
    • By Aleco
      A callback to Annoy-o-Tron, this new Mech card could be a serious player in the meta.
       
      Episode 2 of "Enter Boom Labs" has revealed another new Magnetic card from The Boomsday Project, called Annoy-o-Module:
       

       
      A callback to Annoy-o-Tron, this guy gains Magnetic and 1/2 worth of stats for just 2 Mana! The stats and keywords this card instantly adds to another Mech seem quite strong when you compare it to Blessing of Kings, which adds 2 more Attack to a minion but does not add Divine Shield and Taunt. This card isn't awful when played on it's own, and it plays well in a deck with Corpsetaker. Annoy-o-Module checks enough for boxes for me, and I full expect it to see play in the upcoming meta.
      Episode 2 of "Enter Boom Labs" is short but sweet, and you can watch the full video right here:
       
       
      Do you think Annoy-o-Module impact the game as much as Annoy-o-Tron did? Let us know in the comment section, and be sure to check out our Boomsday Hub for more spoilers from the upcoming expansion.
    • By Aleco
      Use Mini-Rag to destroy enemy minions and level up your"Wow!" emote in this week's Tavern Brawl.
       
      In celebration of The Midsummer Fire Festival, this week's Tavern Brawl is all about Ragnaros, Lightlord. Well, Mini-Rag to be more specific:
       

       
      A 2/3 Ragnaros with Immune will start the game on one side of the board. At the end of each turn, Mini-Rag will deal 1 damage to a random target on the other side of the board for each Attack he has, then swap to the other side of the board. Each time he kills an enemy minion he will gain 1 Attack, growing in power as the game progresses.
       

       
      Due to the sudden pressure that Mini-Rag applies to both players, I highly recommend playing an Aggro deck. I used Odd Rogue in my first game to take down an Odd Hunter. You could also play an anti-aggro deck to try and counter all the aggro decks running around, but be sure to play some self-healing such as Branching Paths or Healing Rain.
       

       
      The Tavern Brawl will track how many minion kills that Mini-Rag racks up. After 8, 30, and 60 Minion kills, you will level up the fireworks in your "Wow!" emote. This is a returning Tavern Brawl from last year's festival, and your running total of Mini-Rag kills from last year's festival carries over to this year. Happy hunting!