positiv2

Standard rotation

20 posts in this topic

I decided to move the discussion from Cabalist's Tome Tempo Mage as it was off-topic. If you want to continue with the discussion, please do so here.

Since the first two posts of the discussion were relevant to the topic, I decided not to move them and rather quote them here, and since third post was mine, it is just below these two.

3 hours ago, KingMe said:
7 hours ago, Blainie said:

The rotation most likely won't happen until Spring of 2017, so you'll have a LOT of time to play with those ABs. They're also very strong in this deck.

That's what I was thinking. It started in Spring, it would only make sense (by my logic) to switch it in Spring. You never know with Ben and Company though. 

@BlainieBlizzard seems to have pushed the released so they could release a new expansion in january. I might be wrong, but the release dates seem different enough to make me paranoid (August 2015 for TGT, April 2016 for WotoG).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, KingMe said:

That's what I was thinking. It started in Spring, it would only make sense (by my logic) to switch it in Spring. You never know with Ben and Company though. 

With their 3+3 / 2 years scheme, they should give us time to play with 2015 "block" up until they begin 2017 "block". Just don't forget there should be one more expansion this year.

Their rotation plan sucks, but that's a story for another time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Paracel said:

With their 3+3 / 2 years scheme, they should give us time to play with 2015 "block" up until they begin 2017 "block". Just don't forget there should be one more expansion this year.

Their rotation plan sucks, but that's a story for another time.

They were never too clear about their "Plan" other than saying "the latest 2 years". So do you think as each set comes out now the oldest set drops at the newest's release? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, KingMe said:

They were never too clear about their "Plan" other than saying "the latest 2 years". So do you think as each set comes out now the oldest set drops at the newest's release? 

It is hardly reasonable that rotation drops at The New Year's Eve. It wouldn't even make a full year since Standard was invented. It is already an issue that later expansions see less play time-wise, so Year of Kraken should be 12 months, it's called a Year after all.

But, "being reasonable" and "being on Heartstone development team" is two different things.

That's why I wrote "should" in italic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Paracel said:

It is hardly reasonable that rotation drops at The New Year's Eve. It wouldn't even make a full year since Standard was invented. It is already an issue that later expansions see less play time-wise, so Year of Kraken should be 12 months, it's called a Year after all.

The first year being shorter seems fine when I think about the following years. When more people start playing HS, they will wonder, why the year starts in april. The next years will be 12 months, which should makes it a year. It could be "3/4 of a year of Kraken", but that just doesn't have the sound. 
It truly is an issue with expansions later in the year seeing less time, but it doesn't bother me since I play wild as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Paracel said:

It is hardly reasonable that rotation drops at The New Year's Eve. It wouldn't even make a full year since Standard was invented. It is already an issue that later expansions see less play time-wise, so Year of Kraken should be 12 months, it's called a Year after all.

But, "being reasonable" and "being on Heartstone development team" is two different things.

That's why I wrote "should" in italic.

I think something was misunderstood somewhere. My theory behind the set drops would be; Once we enter the "New Year" as each set comes into rotation then the oldest set in rotation would then fall out. I.E; "Year of the Spider" (Example) rolls around and with it comes a new booster set. Once the new Booster set comes into rotation then BrM would fall out of rotation. After that happens everyone plays new rotation cards for "X" amount of time before the second set comes out in "The Year of the Spider" (Example) at which time TGT would fall out of rotation and so on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, positiv2 said:

The first year being shorter seems fine when I think about the following years. When more people start playing HS, they will wonder, why the year starts in april. The next years will be 12 months, which should makes it a year. It could be "3/4 of a year of Kraken", but that just doesn't have the sound. 

Is there a major tournament that could mark the transition?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Blainie said:

Is there a major tournament that could mark the transition?

Winter Championship will take place in march, WC should take place during Blizzcon. It is possible though, that the Winter Championship will take place earlier, which could make it a good tournament to start the year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, KingMe said:

I think something was misunderstood somewhere. My theory behind the set drops would be; Once we enter the "New Year" as each set comes into rotation then the oldest set in rotation would then fall out. I.E; "Year of the Spider" (Example) rolls around and with it comes a new booster set. Once the new Booster set comes into rotation then BrM would fall out of rotation. After that happens everyone plays new rotation cards for "X" amount of time before the second set comes out in "The Year of the Spider" (Example) at which time TGT would fall out of rotation and so on. 

No, they will sadly rotate out at the same time. I heavily advocate "1-in, 1-out" system like you are describing but this is not the case. 

It's just not fair IMO. League is the best expansion we've ever had and we got to play it for like 6 months less than BrM. 1-in, 1-out would create more dynamic metagames and increase the lifespan of each set, which benefits pretty much every party involved. Except for the Icy-Veins who would have to update guides all the time.

1 hour ago, positiv2 said:

The first year being shorter seems fine when I think about the following years. When more people start playing HS, they will wonder, why the year starts in april. The next years will be 12 months, which should makes it a year. It could be "3/4 of a year of Kraken", but that just doesn't have the sound. 

You can place this milestone anywhere you wish. It doesn't have to be related to anything specific because the rotation day is already specific enough, on its own. Your mom and dad didn't exactly choose your birthday, did they? But then it stuck and you (probably) keep celebrating it around that day.

Standard format has a birthday in April. That's it. There is no puzzle for a person who wasn't there when sky fell upon us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where does it state that it will be all at once instead of "1 in, 1 out". I don't remember reading anything that stated what their intended plan was other than "the latest 2 years". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Paracel said:

You can place this milestone anywhere you wish. It doesn't have to be related to anything specific because the rotation day is already specific enough, on its own. Your mom and dad didn't exactly choose your birthday, did they? But then it stuck and you (probably) keep celebrating it around that day.

The thing  with birthdays is that almost nobody remembers them. I don't know the birthday of my aunt and don't know the birthday of standard mode. It would be much easier to remember it if it was on the 1st of something, like 1st of January, if the name is "Year of X", and not "Rotation of X". 
Also, no, I don't celebrate my birthday on the actual birthday, which even further shows that birthdays can be moved - no matter if human birthdays or birthdays of game modes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@positiv2 Good idea, this is why you are in charge. :P  As far as the whole rotation thing goes; has anything actually been posted somewhere about how the entire process is going to happen? As I had stated in a previous comment the only thing I ever remember reading was they were only going to use the last two years worth of sets in Standard. As far as how they go about rotating them, I thought that was still up in the air. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@KingMeA quote directly from the original announcement post

Quote

When we release the first new Expansion each year, every set that wasn’t released in the same year or the year prior will cycle out and no longer be part of the Standard format.

So, we will have one expansion this year, and when the next set is released at the beginning on the year, BrM, TGT and LoE will be rotated out.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, positiv2 said:

@KingMeA quote directly from the original announcement post

So, we will have one expansion this year, and when the next set is released at the beginning on the year, BrM, TGT and LoE will be rotated out.

Ok I see it now. This was the article I remember reading but I guess I had forgot the exact wording stating that at the beginning of the "New Year" ALL sets fell off. Thanks for clarifying this for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16-9-2016 at 8:51 PM, positiv2 said:

@KingMeA quote directly from the original announcement post

So, we will have one expansion this year, and when the next set is released at the beginning on the year, BrM, TGT and LoE will be rotated out.

Huh? When the new year starts only BrM and TGT will rotate out right. Or did BrM and LoE came out in the same year? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Aexra said:

Huh? When the new year starts only BrM and TGT will rotate out right. Or did BrM and LoE came out in the same year? 

League of Explorers came on November 13, meaning that it will rotate out with BrM and TGT.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, positiv2 said:

League of Explorers came on November 13, meaning that it will rotate out with BrM and TGT.

reNOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Blainie said:

reNOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I think it's safe to say our outcry and general heresy of being not ok with the current rotational plan is the fact that League of Explorers is, simply put, the best Hearthstone expansion up to date. 

It has a cool idea behind it, a very "new wave Hearthstone" feel behind it. All those hats and adventures are a mock up of already existing mock up by Sir Harrison Jones, which is totally not serious but incredibly well executed. Compare it to "old wave Hearthstone" - Classic, BrM, Naxx, TGT - that were about converting existing and iconic Warcraft things into cards directly. Surely it felt great but there weren't a lot of exactly new things. League had new things.

It has cool mechanics and cards in it. Discover is the quintessential good random mechanic - random enough to bring variance and average doses of "fun", yet made in such way that total random is not in the 100% of equation, and you actually make a skill-based decision. Legendaries like Brann Bronzebeard and Sir Finley Mrrgglton brought an absolutely new dimension into the game, while being of relatively straightforward, simple-but-smart design. Elise Starseeker was a flavor win bar none, and Reno Jackson is truly a unique card, rivaling only few things in rage-inducement. Commons found their place among staples. Tunnel Trogg fixed Shaman in a way nobody could think of. Ethereal Conjurer broke Arena in a way everyone thought of. Dark Peddler is played in, like, 100% of Warlock decks.

If we compare LoE to the relative straightforwardness (except for Grim Patron and Thaurissan) of BrM and overall faliure of TGT, it's easy to get why we are going to miss League more and why it's sorta unfair to rotate it.

Also a big thing - bigger rotational "blocks" mean less potential for multi-expansions design, so common in Magic: The Gathering. Like, One Night in Karazhan is clearly made with LoE and some BrM in mind, yet their Standard spotlight is rather short. Going slightly back in time, BrM Dragon synergies were good but not consistent enough until the release of TGT where they sorta went on with the theme, and now Dragons are all over the place. But having to print the same things all over and over again takes a lot of design space (not that anybody cares about flavor).

A scenario where two sets are designed to complement each other and to rotate together would create new directions and possibilities for R&D. Whispers of The Old Gods is a good expansion, but its themes - The Old Gods - now feel slightly lackluster once hype is gone and there is no support in other expansions (talking about C'Thun, specifically). Now imagine what's going to happen with Karazhan when we lose spell-heavy support or Dragons to compliment The Spire. Or to Beast Druid with its super trump card from the Menagerie when it loses its previous beasts. 

What I'm trying to say is that printing cards is a big thing and should not be taken lightly. There are definetly flaws that we, fellow users, can cry about as much as we want. Should they be there is not exactly for us to decide.

P.S. Big shoutout to @positiv2 for moving the discussion in to the appropriate flood chamber. We should only spam where it's due.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Keizoku said:

See you in Hell, Reno!

I remember when he first released and I literally made a Mage deck that used Reno, double Duplicate, double Echo, double Ice Block. It was awesome. Most fun I had ever had with Hearthstone at that point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Sojnekah
      Hey there, looking for some common mistakes I might be making in my gear or dps rotation that I am just not seeing. You'd think it would be pretty basic but my dps has been all over the place recently. 

      I will be fighting kiljaeden (pretty standard) and have anywhere from 650-850dps average for the fight. It's gotten me kicked a couple times obviously despite being good on mechanics. I've reviewed several guides, made sure I am enchanted and gemmed... cannot figure it out. What am I doing wrong? (Yes low on meters for other fights as well though not always). 

      924 iLevel, wearing legendary belt and chest (dont have tier to wear shoulders and chest)

      67% Mastery (issue?) 
      24% Critical Strike
      29% Haste

      Opener: Blood Fury, Tome (trinket), Crow, Bestial Wrath, Dire Frenzy, KC, AspectotW, Titan's Thunder, CS, KC, DF...

      Repeat KC, CS, And cast DF whenever buff falls off or procs bonus. 

      Talent Build is:
      Cobra
      Frenzy
      Posthaste
      Bestial
      Int
      Crow
      Killer Cobra

      Helps, tips, advice welcome. 

      Are there common mistakes to rotation i might be making even if u dont see it here? Should i be working hard to gear swap? I am at a loss and it is getting frustrating. Thanks
    • By OroNerVoSo
      grettings icy veins!
      want to share a new funny deck xD
      Bite weed 8/8 turn 3? we got this!
      i'm going to try a FULL GIANT rogue deck. due to Mimic Pod and Thistle Tea we can stack up and tech also for another type of GIANT , while we tech for the standard giant Arcane Giant , using the two cards above we can also tech for : Mountain Giant 
      while we tech for giants we will fullfill the board with tougher Edwin VanCleef and Biteweed.
       
      Here it is the list without Mountain Giant because i have to craft and test it.
      Counterfeit Coin x2
      Preparation x2
      Backstab x2
      Hallucination x2
      Bladed Cultist x2 (not sure... it can be swapped with everything you want)
      Biteweed x2
      Jade Shuriken x2 (this really can summon a 4/4 without any other jade cards. events , this deck is randomized events)
      Shiv x2
      Eviscerate x2
      Mimic Pod x2
      Fan of Knives x2
      Edwin VanCleef x1
      Sherazin, Corpse Flower x1 (we do not run much creatures in the deck , but mid late we play lots of cards. LOTS i mean LOTS of cards.)
      Vilespine Slayer x2 
      Thistle Tea x2
      Arcane Giant x2
      Have fun!
       
      This is actually winning against hunter face decks.
       
      Mulligan --> just search spells. SHIV got priority over everything. hero power too. (not always)
    • By Elodar
      Hey Gang, would you mind looking at my logs and let me know where I can improve my rotation as an assassination rogue.  I notice that all of my best logs have a significant amount of Poison Bomb and I don't like praying to RNJesus.  I am hoping there are some things I can do to hit top dps.  
      Here is my armory. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/emerald-dream/Elodar/simple.  I know my Mastery is low but lately I have had crap luck on drops.  One of the options I have to bring up my Mastery is to drop Insignia of Ravenholdt +Well Flattened Wristguards and change to Denial of Half Giants + an 890 Spellblades Gemmed Signet but Denial is a sub rogue legendary.  This brings my agility to 34248, mastery to 137%, and my crit to 28%.  I tried running this combo with the higher mastery and did not feel like I was doing more dps even though the Sims say I should.  
       
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dF3qCynDbvGrVAh6#fight=14&type=damage-done&source=186  This is one of my better logs where I think I did most thing correct.  Please look at this and let me know if there is something I am missing.
    • By OroNerVoSo
      Hi all ! , this is my first post on Icy Veins , I'm ORO , and i play only ROGUE since 2 years on Heartstone.
      I want to share with this community my new Rogue Deck. it's pretty Similar to other decks played around , but it has some Variety and situational Cards that noone is playing , and that are helping me a lot.
      I don’t want to play those “charge” cards. Because if u fail the first hit , you have lost , and also you have no chance of backup or comeback drawing next card
      Never start questing on a creature that will give you problems , or you know you will be slower than enemy.
      If you will use this deck you can also be competitive versus long range decks.
      Elementals are way better than pirates , and you agro so much that you won’t need SAP , you also can quest on glacial shards , usefull versus Hunter and Warrior. A LOT.
      I would like also to explain after every cards , why i use this , and the situaions.
      Shadowstep x2 [edit15:35 , sorry for the lapsus]:
      Just NEED that for the combo.
      Preparation x2
      casting quest at 2 mana. AoE Dmg with Thalnos  and Fan of knives . USEFULL to cast ENEMY spells that you steal with Swashburglar. 
      good to cast the core with 2 mana , nice with fan of knives. nice with Vanish.
      The Caverns Below x1
      It does not need explain. it's a quest deck :)
      [edit 19/04] TRICK : you can play it as a combo. example : 2nd turn order --> The Coin --> Preparation --> The Caverns Below --> Edwin VanCleef . we got a 6/6 down and we sure gain some time. pretty a small all in of the deck. this trick let you play aggressive in the early turns , and this deck DON'T play aggressive in the early 4 turns.
      Fire Fly x2
      you can go late game with this. or quest at third turn. it can easily let you have 5 creatures down on 4th turn = 25 dmg on the 5th turn.
      Do you still have Swashburglar in your hand and Patches in the deck ? a coin ? :)
      Swashburglar x 2  
      this is unpredictable , it can steal worst cards , or best cards. sometimes best cards are not the best cards of the specific Match you playing. I call it a knife with a double cut side. sometimes it fulls your hand with cards that you won't use at all or you don't need . it's can be the salvation , or you are just wasting mana.
      Patches the Pirate x1
      i use it early only in critical situations , where my enemy is a strong face deck. Face Deck that love to have creatures alives to buff them. i really prefer to use it like a "surprise" of the last 5 dmg.
      i Mean if you're playing only 2x Swashburglar you can probably keep it in the deck for all the game.
      Always good , because also you put out a card from your deck. using his perk it's like drawing  a card
      Glacial Shard x2
      ok , you may go in combo with this. when? you have to predict it. realy usefull in many games against aggro NoFace decks. sometimes let me play 2 more turns , taking no dmg.
      [edit 19/04] wow , awesome card.  counter this Swamp King Dred , and go on on your questing ? NICE , AND TASTY , NOT ?
      Youthful Brewmaster x2
      NEED FOR QUEST
      Gadgetzan Ferryman x2
      NEED FOR QUEST
      Bloodmage Thalnos x1
      Really need to be played with Fan of Knives , you don't play it? every face aggro will (probably) destroy you with those stupid 1/2 , 2/3 , or 3/2 stuff.
      when it's the only option on the 2nd turn just play it. never keep it for too long in your hand.
      Novice Engineer x2
      BEST CARD FOR QUEST. Draw is better than everything. we got also counters in the deck. 
      Edwin VanCleef x1
      Emergency , play it before quest only in emergencies. you can double shadowstep him at turn 5. or it becomes really BIG played after the quest completion. because the quest make it 5/5 while he is in your hand.
      ALERT! : if you are going to play the quest in the next turn , and Edwin is an 8/8 for Example , you can use the quest to heal him after he attacked a provoke creature , or something else dangerous.
      Fan of Knives x2
      Good with Thalnos , with preparation , i prefer this , to Mimic Pod Deck and "dmg" cards like :Counterfeit Coin , Deadly Poison , Sinister Strike , Eviscerate ,Jade Shuriken , I can say that Mimic Pod made me Lose  much more of Win. i think it's a card for a miracle deck (Mimic Pod....)
      Ironbeak Owl x1
      Usefull , better then SAP. NICE VERSUS PRIESTS , PALADINS , sometimes it can be used for the quest.
      sometimes you can silence the heavy provoke creatures of the warrior. he got a slower deck , so you can play the owl for the quest.
      Gluttonous Ooze x1
      Just will save your ASS against WARRIOR , PALADINS , ROGUE , Hunters.
      Igneous Elemental x2
      let's take two more elementals 1/2 , usefull for questing , and mid/late range aggro. anyway good to be played with the coin in your 2nd turn.
      Eater of Secrets x1
      if you want to rank up with this deck , you have to play counter creatures. you don't know if in your next game , you will lose just because of a double Ice Block. remeber you can play it many times sapping it in your hand , and with just 4 mana you dispel ALL the secrets that the enemy had played before. Tempo mage is a pain in the ass. or Just Ice Block is most broken card in the game? I don't know , I just have to dispel those secrets to win certain games . Also usefull versus Hunters , less Versus Paladins because their secrets are not so much dangerous for you.
      Sherazin, Corpse Flower x1
      it just revives , and revives , while you are questing/sapping Fire Fly/Swashburglar/Glacial Shard etc etc...
      [edit 19/04] this is revealing a really good card. you can play the Vanish card as the fourth one that revives him. result : every creature go **** and  Sherazin, Corpse Flower stay down alive. quite a good trick.
      Shadowcaster x1
      you can use it with all the creatures you have. the 1/1 after questing , it's a 5/5 :) 
      [edit 19/04] this is revealing too a good option , also for a 2x , Reasons: 1.  you can copy your quest creature , 2. you can copy  another shadow caster so you can chain themselves to get a full table of shadowcasters , and also you have a 4/4 before quest the completion. maybe the solution is to play Shadowcaster...x2 ? and put out the Youthful Brewmaster  , so we can play Biteweed ? this is a good card you can play it 6/6 at the first turn (only if you got  The Coin
      Vanish x1 
      Finally we got some use with Vanish! you can close the quest with this. or deal 5 more dmg with Patches the Pirate , or get back all your Fire Fly /Swashburglar. Good also to Clean the table , and aggro back taking a turn advantage. if u have many fire flyes down  , the enemy won't aggro more than you , because his tougher creatures cost more than 1 mana. just use as last option against murloc decks , quest priest , quest warrior , quest hunter. you have one , play it wisely. maybe for a close combo with Patches the Pirate , but it must an ending game , last 5 dmg for the win. in the early with Preparation can be a good option if you are not drawing cards...
       
       
      I don't play other pirates like Southsea Deckhand because of : Golakka Crawler and because i don't want an all-in deck , i want a durable and versatile deck.
      I don't play Stonetusk Boar because i don't want an all-in deck , i want a durable and versatile deck.
      I don't play Eviscerate or other Removals , because i need creatures down. no more.
      List of suggested Cards that can synergyze good too and do tricky stuff ***not mentioned in the full deck above***
      Backstab
      Wild Pyromancer (you can do the surprise trick with The Caverns Below to get an earl 1 dmg , good combo versus Face Hunters)
      Sunfury Protector
      Doomsayer
      Lorewalker Cho (can work inside a "no-spells" deck, but every creature you play must do something. you should play creature that do what spells do)
      Biteweed 
       
      I hope you will like it , we can discuss every choice i made about this. For the moment it's a rank 13 confirmed , but people it's starting to play counter decks , and this is more difficult.
      This is weak versus tempo freezing quest mage , face hunters , and warriors that got the right quest deck with the right cards.
      probably weak versus every face deck around. probably if u play pirate versione you lose much because of just 3/4 provoke creatures.
      i'm open to advices by more experienced players :3
       
      [edit] updating while i wait some admin approve it :D
    • By Cryea
      Hi Guys, I need little help with stats priority and rotation. I think, Im doing something wrong with my dps. Cant break 500k-550k DPS on single target and need advice to someone AoE target bosses in Nighthold.
      I send my armory:
      http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/draenor/Cryea/simple
      And the logs:
      https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/7Tp6r4a2vKdtYPDg
       
      Sorry for my bad english and its my first post.