Likmask

Rogue Quest

35 posts in this topic

Tbh this game has gone to hell! 

 

You can't go anywhere in the bracket if you're not playing rogue Q, There is no other deck that can compare to that OP quest.

Edited by positiv2
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11 minutes ago, Allegro said:

I've been playing Aggro Shaman and beating Rogue Quest decks all weekend. 

I think the point is you have to play a very fast aggro deck and/or get really lucky with your initial cards to compete with the Rogue quest.  That severely limits the available deck choices.  My opponent activates it on turn 5 (on average) and then drops 3-4 minions per turn until they win.  I've beaten it all of once with various decks tried.  Actually gotten to the point I'm considering just conceding to any Rogue that activates the quest so I don't waste my time.

Edited by Mursilis

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I played my Druidquest vs RogueQuest a lot few last days and have positive winloss rating. This is very strong scheme but NOT unbeatable. Maybe try to adapt to current meta..

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But the problem is that if blizzard won't change the quest hearthstone will be only rogues in ranked play, because there is no sort of deck that can compete with rogue aggro Q, then what is the point of having other classes in the game?

Edited by Likmask

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14 minutes ago, Likmask said:

But the problem is that if blizzard won't change the quest hearthstone will be only rogues in ranked play, because there is no sort of deck that can compete with rogue aggro Q, then what is the point of having other classes in the game?

Since beginning of the game, meta saw so many OP decks, Face Hunter (especially the one with Undertaker), Secret Paladin, Combo Druid, Patron Warrior (this one was hard to master actually), Aggro Shaman (especially in the early stages of Old Gods meta, this deck was so powerful), then Mid-Shaman and lastly Pirate Warrior (this is the one I hate the most)

Some of them are nerfed, some weren't, some are as powerful as before, some are not, but...

All these decks have at least one weakness, either you can find it, and tech accordingly, or pick a different deck. Also you can get some help from people who solved the corresponding problem already.

You don't have to worry about the lack of diversity in the meta, there is always several decks that are commonly played.

For this one, from my experience, elemental mage and quest shaman works well. 

Also, this is still a rogue deck, historically, it sucks against decks with big board presence and aggro decks, and we have plenty of them.

 

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1 hour ago, Likmask said:

Tbh this game has gone to hell! 

 

You can't go anywhere in the bracket if you're not playing rogue Q, There is no other deck that can compare to that OP quest.

Firstly, I changed your post to follow the general posting rules. Please, follow the rules, or I will have to penalize your behaviour.
Secondly, to beat an aggro deck, the easier way is by out-aggroing them. They play quest rogue, you play Q shaman, face shaman or face hunter. All of these decks put insane pressure on the rogue unless their draw is bad. There are certainly techs (Counterspell for example) and other decks that beat the quest rogue as well.
Finally, this has been happening every single expansion. An "unbeatable" deck showed up, everyone freaked out, then deckbuilders adapted to the meta, and everything was fine(-ish) again. I believe the same is going to happen here. Once the meta stabilizes a bit, deckbuilders are going to throw tech cards into their decks, improving the winrate of their decks against quest rogue, making quest rogue not-so-OP anymore.

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Its just the nature of any card game like this. People flock to the "new unbeatable deck", while others see what that is and make decks specifically to counter it. A few days or weeks later, it shifts again.  I do think the meta shifts faster and more wildly right after a new set comes out, but its fun to watch. If you want to move up the ladder faster, stay ahead of the meta. When everyone else starts playing aggro to counter quest rogue, I'll switch to taunt warrior or control priest or handlock. 

 

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Quest rogue my experience of trying to find a new miracle-like rogue because game basically never lasts to Gadgetzan Auctioneer turns. (Most of them don't run sap and early large Edwin VanCleef\Questing Adventurer still won me some games.) 

Yet I think this deck is way  too one-sided to be really OP.

Pirate warrior, zoo, aggro shaman, face and midrange hunters have relatively easy time with them. Also, Dirty RatPotion of PolymorphSnipe are strong techs against them. Priests with 2 Shadow Word: Death,  2 Dragonfire Potion and 2x Shadow Visions should be able to outcontrol them. Handlocks will have a line of 8\8 taunts to face 5\5s

BTW, I am very worried that Blizzard will nerf Shadowstep to the point of never being viable in a non-quest rogue. I would like to see a slight nerf that would set minimal cost of bounced minions to one mana. but we all remember Blade Flurry and may get one mana Shadowstep without minion cost reduction 

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I love how people always use the same logic.

"Don't like Secret Paladin? Just play face hunter/freeze mage/terrible cards like eater of secrets to counter them."

"Don't like Patron Warrior? Just play Handlock/Echo Giants Mage and own them."

"Don't like pirate warrior? Just play Control Warrior(you know, that one deck that couldn't beat anything else in the MSOG meta)"

You do realize that when a deck makes up around 50% of the meta in a 9 class game(thereby being common enough that you are even CONSIDERING to run a deck that can't beat anything but it) that is just not OK right? Furthermore, Blizzard has been shoving down our throats how "uninteractive" and "unfun" combo decks like freeze mage, patron warrior and miracle rogue are, despite the fact they were all so hard to play that you never saw them over 10% of the time on ladder when they were tier one decks. When we are talking about a deck that is both uninteractive(I would argue even more than the aforementioned decks) and can be played by the average 4 year old toddler, what is there to argue about? Just admit the damn thing needs to be nerfed.

Edited by JooBatanete

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1 hour ago, JooBatanete said:

You do realize that when a deck makes up around 50% of the meta in a 9 class game(thereby being common enough that you are even CONSIDERING to run a deck that can't beat anything but it) that is just not OK right? Furthermore, Blizzard has been shoving down our throats how "uninteractive" and "unfun" combo decks like freeze mage, patron warrior and miracle rogue are, despite the fact they were all so hard to play that you never saw them over 10% of the time on ladder when they were tier one decks. When we are talking about a deck that is both uninteractive(I would argue even more than the aforementioned decks) and can be played by the average 4 year old toddler, what is there to argue about? Just admit the damn thing needs to be nerfed.

50% of the meta is a great exaggeration. 15% is somewhat around the real number. And nerfing a deck that has ~48% winrate is a dubious decision.

I may say that I dislike the impact on the meta and find the gameplay somewhat boring but quest rogue decks aren't even close to OP.  Furthermore, I doubt that they can be improved much, while other archetypes are in their refining stage and will improve.

 

 

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Although I have seen a quest rogue complete quest and play Crystal Core on turn 4 once, most of the time the quest reward is coming down on turn 6, not turn 5, and meanwhile the rogue has been spending much of her mana on completing the quest instead of defense, Aggro decks can easily kill you by turn 6, and even if you are alive to play the quest reward, you probably don't have lethal until next turn and none of those 5/5s have taunt to protect you from aggro until you can finish the game.

Also freeze mage laughs at boards full of 5/5s as they play nova, nova, blizzard, double cone of cold, hey I discovered another nova, and after I run out of freezes I also have two ice blocks.

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13 hours ago, Strongpoint said:

50% of the meta is a great exaggeration. 15% is somewhat around the real number. And nerfing a deck that has ~48% winrate is a dubious decision.

I may say that I dislike the impact on the meta and find the gameplay somewhat boring but quest rogue decks aren't even close to OP.  Furthermore, I doubt that they can be improved much, while other archetypes are in their refining stage and will improve.

Well that 15% must be all around me as I see the Rogue quest deck half the time.  On average the quest is achieved and played on turn 5.  Winrate against me, and me using multiple decks in response, is around 98% (I've beat it all of once).  Sure there are tech cards that help, assuming you can get the exact cards you need earlier enough in your deck to be able to use them.  Conversely I can also win games by turn 4 if I get the perfect hand and my opponent gets a bad draw.  Not that this happens very often (as in once).  Just because it's technically possible to counter the deck doesn't mean it's realistic that one will be able to do so even half the time.

Part of my frustration here is I most enjoy control type decks, and ergo longer games.  I stayed away from Pirate Warrior for this reason.  But the contention that in order to counter the Rogue quest one must run all aggro all the time just irks me.  I've already removed all cards costing more than 6 mana from my decks due to the meta being faster with the release of Un'Goro, but even that isn't helping as the decks aren't technically aggro oriented.

Edited by Mursilis

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If you are winning one of 50 (I doubt the accuracy of the claim) games against quest rogue than either you are playing awful decks, greedy decks or play badly. Or all of that.

 

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3 hours ago, Strongpoint said:

If you are winning one of 50 (I doubt the accuracy of the claim) games against quest rogue than either you are playing awful decks, greedy decks or play badly. Or all of that.

 

You are more than welcome to assume I'm a terrible player, have no idea what I'm doing and lie about it.  I know what I've seen, how I play and what success, or lack thereof, I've had against said deck.  I'll stand by my OP deck conclusion.

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14 hours ago, Mursilis said:

You are more than welcome to assume I'm a terrible player, have no idea what I'm doing and lie about it.  I know what I've seen, how I play and what success, or lack thereof, I've had against said deck.  I'll stand by my OP deck conclusion.

There are enough places to see meta statistic with a decent sample size. Quest rogue is ~48%  winrate deck. Against pirate warrior or token druid it has below 30% winrate. Against zoo, tempo mages and non-quest hunters it is around 40%. It is not a nerf material even if it is annoying to play against. 

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5 hours ago, Strongpoint said:

There are enough places to see meta statistic with a decent sample size. Quest rogue is ~48%  winrate deck. Against pirate warrior or token druid it has below 30% winrate. Against zoo, tempo mages and non-quest hunters it is around 40%. It is not a nerf material even if it is annoying to play against. 

You realize all the decks you mentioned are aggro type decks.  Control and long game type decks that used to work just fine in the previous meta aren't on your list.  If a deck that comes out causes the meta to shift so much purely on its own, and as has been discussed other decks must include cards/strategies specifically to counter that one deck, that deck by definition is OP.  Secret Paladin was the same way.  I'm sure we'll all get used to it as we did with other OP decks.  That doesn't mean we all have to like it.

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3 hours ago, Mursilis said:

I'm sure we'll all get used to it as we did with other OP decks.  That doesn't mean we all have to like it.

No, but that doesn't mean you have to cry about it either. We get it, Rogue is OP, wah, wah, wah, Bli² plz nerf. Not gonna happen. Either play aggro that counters Quest Rogue, tech against the deck you hate or accept you'll lose bad matchups.

 

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3 hours ago, Mursilis said:

You realize all the decks you mentioned are aggro type decks.  Control and long game type decks that used to work just fine in the previous meta aren't on your list.  If a deck that comes out causes the meta to shift so much purely on its own, and as has been discussed other decks must include cards/strategies specifically to counter that one deck, that deck by definition is OP.  Secret Paladin was the same way.  I'm sure we'll all get used to it as we did with other OP decks.  That doesn't mean we all have to like it.

What control decks are you talking about? All viable control decks that used to work were reno decks. They are all dead due to the obivious reason. 

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38 minutes ago, Strongpoint said:

What control decks are you talking about? All viable control decks that used to work were reno decks. They are all dead due to the obivious reason. 

At least a third of the decks on this site are control oriented.  Jade decks, Ramp Druid, almost every Priest deck for starters.

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17 hours ago, Mursilis said:

You realize all the decks you mentioned are aggro type decks. 

Let me give you some control or midrange decks that work well - taunt warrior, midrange murloc paladin, freeze secret mage, living mana OTK druid, so on. Just because aggro decks are more effective at beating quest rogue doesn't mean that other decks cannot beat the Q rogue.

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14 hours ago, Mursilis said:

At least a third of the decks on this site are control oriented.  Jade decks, Ramp Druid, almost every Priest deck for starters.

1/3 is over exaggeration, it is at most 1/5, maybe less. Jade decks are not control, they are heavily midrange oriented, except one of them. And even control jade shaman is so midrangey.

Priest doesn't even have that many decks, and there are only 2 ramp druid decks, and not many people play those.

Yeah, Reno decks were the only viable control decks before this expansion. And in this one, quest mage seems viable, people tried handlock, doesn't seem so bad.

And about previous meta, well, let's say there is not much to talk about that. Except Reno Warlock, and Reno Mage at the beginning, there was not a viable control deck. I remember playing against either pirate warrior or jade shaman 14 games in a row, control, yeah, sure.

Dragon priest was extremely frustrating to play against and it is a curve deck, maybe even midrangey, definitely not control. Jade druid was midrange, jade shaman was either aggro or midrange, cancer warrior was aggro.

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10 hours ago, positiv2 said:

Let me give you some control or midrange decks that work well - taunt warrior, midrange murloc paladin, freeze secret mage, living mana OTK druid, so on. Just because aggro decks are more effective at beating quest rogue doesn't mean that other decks cannot beat the Q rogue.

You're referring to the Budget Aggro Murloc deck from this site?  Yes, that is one of the ones I'll be going with, with some modifications.  Granted it's listed as "aggro" but at this point I'll roll with whatever deck definition people want to use.  If that's not the Paladin deck you're referring to I'm not sure which of the other decks here you mean, and the N'Zoth and Quests Paladin decks I cannot do as I lack the legendary cards.  Which is why I'm stuck with an aggro deck, or something of my own creation.

I'll have to look at the freeze secret mage deck here to see if I have the cards for it, as Mage is one of the decks I'll need a replacement due to the cards we lost.  Thanks for the suggestions.

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I've only encountered Q rogue once so far but had it quite comfortably beaten with Elemental Shaman - the rogue build is incredibly one dimensional, and requires mere luck of card draw rather than any significant skill to play and win. If the right cards don't draw and the quest isn't complete by turns 4/5, the rogue player is either faced with the decision to play a non Q strategy to try regain tempo (with minions in the deck so ineffective the game will be nigh impossible to pull back) or continue hoping quest cards draw, completely losing tempo and take unopposed shots to the face.   

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