L0rinda

Mean Streets of Gadgetzan: Preview of Revealed Jade Lotus Cards

6 posts in this topic

QKtjpVU.jpg

The next expansion, Mean Streets of Gadgetzan, has been announced, and many of the cards have been spoiled already. This preview discusses the announced cards from the Jade Lotus classes of Druid, Rogue, and Shaman. There are seven of these cards, bringing the total previewed so far to fifteen.

The Jade Lotus gang are one of the three factions in Mean Streets of Gadgetzan. Their relevance in-game is the use of tri-cast cards. Jade Lotus cards can be played by Druid, Rogue, and Shaman. Grimy Goons cards can be played by Warrior, Hunter, and Paladin. Kabal cards can be played by Mage, Priest, and Warlock.

Jade Lotus card:

Mz4oE2l.png

As mentioned previously, this card can be played by any of the Jade Lotus classes. Discover among three classes needs to be tested, but is probably still powerful, despite the wide range. Lotus Agents does not seem like a card that will see play. It compares unfavourably with the very fringe card Ethereal Conjurer, and although you should never swear by such comparisons, it does seem that the effect is unlikely to be powerful enough for a minion with such a low Health vs Mana cost.

Rogue cards:

vrGSdLR.png

Two Rogue cards were announced in the initial release. People have always regarded Rogue as a class that works better with The Coin, due to cards like Gadgetzan Auctioneer, as well as powerful Combo cards. Now you can choose to have two more coins in your deck in the guise of Counterfeit Coin. Of course, the downside of this is that there will be a lot less gas in your deck, and so such a deck would likely need to be fueled with card draw, such as current Druid decks, but it is a card that will definitely merit investigation.

I feel that Lotus Assassin is a really well designed card. The idea of him jumping out of the shadows, killing someone, and then hiding again is full of flavour. It also seems to be a card that could see play. Rogues are at their best when controlling the board, and Lotus Assassin should be good at killing two minions without reply. It will also function well in conjunction with cards like Cold Blood for lethal pushes. Finally, Rogue doesn't have great 5-drops at the moment and so there is definitely a position for a card like this.

Druid cards:

KMXKYuQ.png

Druid got more of the things it already does well. Getting more does not always mean getting better, and so these cards will all need to be tested against the cards they will replace. Mark of the Lotus will naturally be tried in an aggressive token build alongside Violet Teacher and Power of the Wild. There are definitely times that you feel you'd like a third Power of the Wild in token Druid, so there's a chance it will be played as at least a 1-of in those decks. When that happens, people usually find a way to insert a second copy, so there's a chance it will see play.

Pilfered Power looks to be a little too conditional. If you have a huge board already, then you probably don't have much use for the extra mana. If you don't have a board, then it will sit in your hand as a dead card. A potential use would be a combo deck involving Wisps of the Old Gods, but it feels like there are better things you could do with ten mana. 

Lunar Visions is hard to assess, but a deck in which it was played would need to be extremely minion heavy. If you do meet the conditions though, and get both minions reduced, the card becomes 1 mana, draw two cards. With that pricing, you can bet that people will be trying to make an aggressive deck with this card.

Kun the Forgotten King looks powerful. Arcane Giant is already strong in Druid and would probably be better if not for Kun's Armor ability. Naturally the focus is on the fact it's a 0 mana 7/7 if you reach turn ten, but I think that the Armor will actually be the reason that this becomes a commonly played card. Currently Druid can struggle to stabilise as it gets control around turn ten, but this would dominate the board while buying a turn after a turn nine clear. I feel that the Mana Crystal refresh is probably overrated by most people, but the Armor is underrated.

Shaman cards:

So far, no Shaman cards have been spoiled.

Other cards:

The preview for the Kabal classes can be found here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Turn 1 living roots

Turn 2 living roots or 2 drop or coin pilfered power for 2 crystals

Turn 3 pilfered power for 2-3 crystals

Also, the rare occasion you play Kun after Fandral to steal the late game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll try to give my opinions on the spoiled cards and rate them, using this scale :

Spoiler

A : Obviously powerful, a multi-archetype staple, perhaps, a format-defining card.  (Tunnel Trogg, Fiery War Axe, Piloted Shredder);

B: A decent card, your typical "bread and butter"; archetype staple; reliable niche card (Blackwing Corruptor, Cult Sorcerer, Blood To Ichor, Acidic Swamp Ooze);

C: A mediocre or weak card that is a filler, outclassed by its peers or has a niche that's not reliable (Eater of Secrets; Stampeding Kodo;Stranglethorn Tiger; Infested Tauren);

D: It has seen play. Once. Something that's just really not great, but can occasionally make it in a meme deck, or via "get a random card" things. (Cone of Cold; Bloodsail Corsair; Starfall);

F: Striclty unplayable. It exists to brick your random effect cards. (Shatter; Wisp; Purify; Captain's Parrot).

 

Ratings are purely subjective, and, of course, opened up to debate. But I'll try to back them up with reasonable explainations.

One big thing to note is that I'll be giving two ratings - one for the current Standard, and one for going forward, in 2017-2018.

To kickstart things off - on all the triclass cards, or "Gang" cards:

Spoiler

The idea is definetly cool, but current iterations do not look great. It reminds me of multicolored cards in Magic: The Gathering, except for one huge thing. Being multicolored is a design thing that imposes strict disadvantage - a card is harder to cast because you need different types of mana. This drawback opens up space for card text to be good - and it will be balanced out in the end, because color screw is a very real thing. With those Gang cards coming in Hearthstone, design goes in a directly opposite way - being available to three classes is a strict advantage. You just can't make it good and don't stick an opportunity cost to make it fair. Also it would greatly reduce the diversity of the format. So it ends up undertuned, like it was with Inspire in TGT. 

Lotus Agents

Despite being the best of cycle, they are still pretty bad. Statline is just slightly beyond playable. Ethereal Conjurer is a card that comes to mind instantly, but that one is not played for the same reasons : Azure Drake just has better stats. Add the fact a Mage spell is in definetly better than a random class card from any 3 Lotus classes, and that those classes' archetypes are pretty tight on their gameplans, and you have a bad card. It's not bad enough to justify giving it D rating, because of what my D rating means, so it gets a C-.

Verdict : C- for now, C- in '17-'18.

Counterfeit Coin

That's a card I've wanted for Rogue since day 1. With what Miracle looks like right now, it will have a ton of potential. Going forward, though, it may fall behind if Rogue shifts from this playstile towards more fair strategies.

Verdict : B for now, B in '17-'18.

Lotus Assassin

I would agree this guy is a flavor win, but on the sole power level he does not make a deck. And the support for fair Rogue decks is not great now. Maybe things could change, but I don't have high hopes for this Ninja for now.

VerdictC for now, C in '17-'18

Mark of the Lotus

Much like the Coin card, having a Power of the Wild half is a cool but slightly lazy idea. It's much less flexible than a split card, though, and fits only dedicated strategies. Something non-token but proactive, like a Beast deck, wouldn't play the card just because spell count is already big there, and Power's flexibility is better. I'm giving it a C+ because I think it's way too niche. An efficient token generator like Living Roots is destined to rotate, as well.

Verdict : C+ now, C in '17-'18.

Pilfered Power 

I would agree with everything that @L0rinda says here. It can have a potential with a fast token generator like Living Roots though, but that rotates. Key thing to note here is that fast mana is very easy to break, and Pilfered Power is exactly that kind.

Verdict : C- now, D in '17-'18.

Lunar Visions

I'm not going to be a fan here and hold on these facts : a) Druid decks historically have had a lot of spells, regardless of how proactive they were, and b) It's still 5 mana, and even with a discount, even with a double discount, you're not going to play them instantly in the majority of cases. That's a ton of durdle for a hypothetical tempo deck, even though it's a better durdle than Nourish is. I cannot think of a Druid deck that couls utilize Lunar Visions before rotation, because Spell Druid decks are just so good right now.

Verdict : D right now, C in '17-'18.

Kun, The Forgotten King

First of all - what is this guy doing here??? Isn't he like, an ancient Mogu king out of somewhere in Pandaria? How did he end up in Gadgetzan? How is he a Druid dude? What is going on? Flavor Judge!!!

A lot of talk is about this card being good. I cannot agree, even though it's a 0 mana 7/7 meme.

It's a Ancient Shieldbearer/Arcane Giant split card, I get this. But it does not have any good qualities of these two cards! Either of these is good because they do not cost 10 mana. You can play them when they are needed. A 10-mana armor gain is a joke; against a dedicated damage deck, you should be dead for 3 turns by then. Against slower decks, this life would rarely matter, and for the matchups where you'd like to go above 30, there is Feral Rage which is pretty much the same armor gain, but it also can deal 4 damage which is huge. Same Cain be said about Feral Rage in stabilizing situations. 7/7 is a mediocre threat against Control, when you compare it to other options like Ragnaros the Firelord, for example.

Maybe it will be good after rotation, when the format slows down. But right now, Spell Druids are pretty tight on deck slots and have the bases that Kun should cover already covered, and with better options. I'm totally not hyped.

Verdict : C for now, C+ for '17-'18.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like thief rogue concept and was excited to get more ways to get your opponents class cards from the next expansion. But Lotus Agent is so disappointing.  Thief rogue wants to play his Ethereal Peddler on curve not  5\3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Strongpoint said:

I like thief rogue concept and was excited to get more ways to get your opponents class cards from the next expansion. But Lotus Agent is so disappointing.  Thief rogue wants to play his Ethereal Peddler on curve not  5\3.

I agree this is a fairly interesting way to support Burgle Rogue, that's why they have changed the wording on Ethereal Peddler. Would Lotus Agents be a 4 mana 3/3, I could have seen them getting some screen time. But not in this condition, and not with Miracle being around and bei

I also think that Burgle was a failed concept since day 1. It has way too much random element to it, and does not add anything to Rogue design as class : you play some of your dudes to get their spells, so you essentially play with other class' cards, not your own, which creates a fairly empty identity if you focus too hard on it. Not having an incentive to support it leads to, well, lacking support, and so the whole archetype struggles.

OffTopic: 

Spoiler

 

I also get triggered really, really, really  hard when somebody says "Thief Rogue". No offense.

But, give me at least one reason why is this word is better than "Burgle".

Here is a list of why I think "Thief Rogue" is wrong at every level:

1)The original card is called Burgle. Not "Thief" or something. They are close synonyms, but not the the same interchangeable word. It features a specific mechanic, and it's only logical that this in-game action should have a name of the card it was "invented", or, at least, be related to it directly. Naming things is not about common sense.

2)Then we get to see a Swashburglar which features exactly the same mechanic three expansions later. Before that comes Undercity Huckster who has absolutely nothing to do with neither theft nor burgling, so we can dismiss him. I think Swashburglar showcases us the consistency in terms of how do Blizzard call their own mechanics. It also proves the logic I've outlined in point 1.

3)The biggest trigger for me is the fact we already have an in-game action that can be called "stealing", or "theft" in nouns, using the same pattern - featured on the Priest card Thoughtsteal. It has an actual "steal" in it - and nothing to do with Burgle, because unlike the Rogue mechanic, it bears at least some resemblance to an actual theft - you get cards that are in your opponent's possession - in their deck. "Burgling" gives you a class card copy that may be not in their pocket. Thoughtsteal is not unique because we also have Mind Vision and Shifting Shade. Granted, they have as little to do with stealing as Huckster, but here it is - a recurring in-game action. 

I won't hold on to the fact "thief" is harder to pronounce than "Burgle" if you are not a native speaker. But I only hit the sounds right 6 times out of 10.

This is a fairly marginal detail, but I just can't stand it when somebody on the Internets is wrong. I'm sorry if it looks absolutely irrelevant or stupid. For me it's not.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Paracel said:

But, give me at least one reason why is this word is better than "Burgle".

Decks are named generally after the things in the deck that are crucial to the deck. Burgle is not the sole focus of the deck. The idea of stealing cards from the other class is, with something else in addition, such as our site deck that uses Burgle, Swashburglar and Ethereal.

Thief is also a Rogue archetype from other games, so it makes sense to involve it, no?

Hence why decks are named Yogg-Thief, N'zoth-Thief etc.

If there was a deck that was the standard rogue list of 28 cards + Burgle, I'd call it Burgle Rogue, but that's not what the list is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Zadina
      Many players - initially from Korea, but then from all regions - have received a survey about Hearthstone and the latest expansions. One of the questions of the survey asks players how likely they would be to to play the card game within the next 30 days, if there were no Blizzard sponsored tournaments.
      The question has made a lot of people nervous, given that Heroes of the Storm esports were recently axed and the game will go in maintenance mode in the near future. The climate is already heavy with the latest WoW expansion not being received that greatly and all the rumours about Activision meddling into Blizzard. The recent news about two Activision Blizzards CFOs leaving the company and Bungie (the developer of Destiny 2) jumping ship from Activision only managed to spark the rumours that things aren't going that well for Blizzard. Hearthstone also saw its game director and public face, Ben Brode, leave this year - along with other notable Hearthstone devs.
      Significant changed to the structure of the Hearthstone Championship Tour were announced less than two months ago, so Hearthstone esports have a future for 2019 at least. Of course, the conspiracy lovers immediately pointed out that HotS devs promised that HGC would continue in 2019, only to announce its cancellation less than a month afterwards.

      The full survey was shared on Reddit by u/HelixFossil89.
      It is important to put this matter into perspective without panicking. First of all, this was a single question in a 35-question survey about the game in general and Rastakhan's Rumble in particular. The conductors of the survey obviously want to get the general opinion of their playerbase on major issues. Just because they asked this particular question, it doesn't necessarily mean they are considering axing Hearthstone esports.
      Second, there is no indication that Hearthstone isn't doing well. Sure, it may have lost some players but it probably still is Blizzard's second best earner. Its competition has definitely not managed to thwart it and the latest balance changes - while they weren't exactly successful in creating a healthy meta - were received with excitement and positivity by most of the community.
      On the other hand, Blizzard has spent quite a lot of money on the Hearthstone professional scene and perhaps there is a limit of how much they can keep throwing at it. There is also the matter that even though Hearthstone has been successful as an esport, it has managed that without being taken totally seriously - even by its own players. The 2019 plans also seem a bit vague-ish, although it should be noted that the January qualifiers are well underway.
    • By Zadina
      This brand new Tavern Brawl challenges you to build a deck with cards from 2 Wild expansions and 2 Standard ones.
      Specifically, you will need to construct a deck using only cards from Goblins vs Gnomes, The Grand Tournament, The Witchwood and The Boomsday Project. We remind you that this month is dedicated to Wild mode with a new Wild Bundle and thematic Tavern Brawls being available.
      Newer players or players that don't have a lot of Wild cards in their collection can pick a Class and a single card and the game will autofill a deck for them with cards they don't have!
      If you don't have cards from GvG and TGT, but still want to make your own deck, Baku the Mooneater and/or Genn Greymane are your best bets. Odd Rogue and Odd Paladin are performing well and Even Shaman is also a decent choice.
      If you have all the cards needed, then it's a great opportunity to show off your Mech power. Mech Hunter and Mech Paladin are absolute beasts, with the Mechs from GvG and The Boomsday Project synergising perfectly.
      This is a very interesting Tavern Brawl, since it creates a whole new meta on its own and it satisfies the players who are asking for yearly/monthly rotations with a specific amount of random sets from all of Hearthstone's history. Sometimes, Tavern Brawls foreshadow future games modes so perhaps this is a small hint on something different being worked on!
    • By Starym
      Here comes another update, once again focusing on Arena balance as classes get the appearance rates of cards tweaked so everyone has a comparable win rate. We're seeing Hunters, Rogues and Warriors getting their rates nerfed, while Druids, Mages, Paladins, Shamans and Warlocks get theirs buffed. This is coming after the more comprehensive update last month that saw some bigger Arena changes, including the removal of Mind Control Tech.

      We're also getting changes to Rumble Run in this update, featuring better synergy for your shrine with new cards picked, boss deck adjustments and the ability to re-pick the shrine you lost with. Check out the full details below:
      January 10 (source)
      This Hearthstone update mixes Rumble Run up for a refreshing new change, while also bringing in some updates to Arena buckets together with the cessation of December 2018’s dust refund. Read on for details!
      Arena Updates
      Following our Arena update last December, we have adjusted the appearance rate of each individual card available in Arena to ensure the overall win-rate of each class remains as close as possible to our ideal of 50%.
      Hunter, Rogue, and Warrior have had the average quality of their Arena picks lowered. Druid, Mage, Paladin, Priest, Shaman, and Warlock have had the average quality of their Arena picks raised. December Update
      The dust refunds that were available following our last update in December 2018 are no longer available as of this post.
      Rumble Run Changes
      Champions, rumblers, and trolls of all sizes! We’ve watched you spend a month punching faces in the Rumble Run, and we think there’s room for some changes based on how things have gone. Here’s what’s new with the Rumble Run.
      Weighted Card Rewards We’ve increased the possibility of synergistic cards for your shrine appearing more often. One of our primary goals with this mode was to showcase the nine troll champions and have you really get to know them. We wanted you to “live the dream” of fighting in the Gurubashi Arena, and to do so, we had to make sure that each Run had its own strong theme. Adjusting the card bucket offerings for decks and re-adding bonus buckets will help strengthen that experience.
      Boss Deck Adjustments One of our design goals with the Rumble Run was to provide huge, overpowered combat. Balancing at such a high power level is a challenge. When it works, it works great. You get epic, monumental combat against overwhelming odds. But when it doesn’t work, it feels random and swingy – like when the AI pulls an overwhelming combo. And since no one likes being repeatedly hit in the face with a club, we’ve pruned some of the power from the boss decks so that your Runs will play out more moderately. We have a lot of data about which bosses have the biggest body counts, and we’ve used that to target the worst offenders. Rumble Runs are now a little easier, but more importantly, they’ll feel a little more fair.
      Shrine Selection Changes In early builds of the Rumble Run, we allowed players to pick a class and shrine before playing. What we found was that playtesters immediately picked their favorite class, gravitated to a certain shrine, and played that shrine repeatedly.
      We had wanted to encourage players to try different shrines, especially to experiment with stuff they normally wouldn’t, so we put the current random shrine drafting in place. While that helped achieve our initial goal, it removed that feeling of mastery – the ability to choose a shrine and play with it until you feel you’ve mastered it or exhausted its possibilities.
      So we want to bring that back. With this update, whenever you lose, you can expect to always be offered the shrine you just lost with. The shrine that the boss used to beat you in your last run will also be offered, per the status quo.
      Some Final Rumble Ruminations
      We always prefer to experiment, try extreme ideas, and get feedback rather than play it safe. In true troll fashion, we went big with the Rumble Run and tried some different ideas to give this expansion a unique feel and to capture the thrill of stepping into an arena against known opponents for some superpowered brutality. It’s wallop or be walloped in there, for better or for worse.
      One of the things we experimented with—and heard great feedback on—was about the earlier pack rewards for the Rumble Run. Previous Hearthstone missions awarded packs via quests for completing content. For The Boomsday Project, we gave packs out without a quest to celebrate the launch of the expansion’s missions. This time around, we front-loaded the rewards and gave players three extra packs on launch day instead of during the Rumble Run. We felt that packs might be more interesting to people during the initial weeks of the expansion.
      As many of you have pointed out, this decision just made the missions feel especially un-rewarding. It’s always more gratifying to earn packs by competing a quest, rather than just being given them. To this end, we’re adding the new quest described above, and going forward, we’ll keep this feedback in mind for the launch of new single-player content.
      We had a ton of fun making mode and really appreciate the time that many of you took to write out thoughtful feedback. Everything we learn helps make future content better.
      And now, it’s back to the Rumble Run!
    • By Zadina
      This January is dedicated to the Wild format: apart from the Wild Open qualifiers taking place this month, you can now get a card Bundle with packs from previous expansions that are not usually available.
      The Wild Bundle contains 10 packs from each of the following expansions, that have rotated out of Standard: Goblins vs Gnomes, The Grand Tournament, Whispers of the Old Gods and Mean Streets of Gadgetzan. The Bundle costs 25 Euros or 25 USD.
      If you are interested in the Wild format - or perhaps you even want to complete in it, the Wild Open qualifiers will be taking place this January.
      Lastly, most Tavern Brawls are in Wild and this will continue being the case throughout this month.
    • By Stan
      It's been a while since we last heard of Ben Brode who left Blizzard in April 2018 to form the Second Dinner game development studio. In the latest update, we learn that Brode along with former Hearthstone developers are currently working on a Marvel game and the studio received $30 million in funding from Netease in China.
      Netease is currently co-developing Diablo: Immortal with Activision Blizzard. Here's the latest press release posted on the Second Dinner website. The company now has enough funds to expand and grow beyond its five co-founders.
      They also released a video talking about exciting news in the new office.