Quest Discussion

[VaraTreledees 138]

With the next expansion right around the corner, I want to hear everyone's thoughts on the new quests.  I will probably be wrong, but to start things off here are mine, also listed from worst to best in my opinion.

The Last Kaleidosaur: I don't think this quest will be constructed viable.  It is certainly good, but I just think playing 6 buff cards is going to be too steep of a cost.  There are really two ways I can see a deck built around this, one is a small creature deck with buffs (the obvious way), but I feel like you would have to cram in too many buffs to realistically expect to complete the quest and end up with not enough other things in the deck.  The other way, and the way I see a little promise in, is making a value oriented mid rangey buff deck.  With cards like Primalfin Champion, Spikeridged Steed, and   The Voraxx we have a good start, but I don't think it is viable with the current standard card pool, but could be a very strong deck later this year.

 

The Caverns Below:  Honestly this one should probably be rated lower then the paladin quest, because in my heart of hearts I think there are far too many problems with this quest for it to ever be viable, but both the requirements and the reward are so unique and potentially game breaking, I am going to put it above the paladin one.  The problem with this quest just generally revolves around the difficulty of actually completing it efficiently, you are going to be playing an aggroish deck that plays a bunch of cards that lose you tempo, to spend your turn to play a potentially very strong card if you still have the gas to win the game after that.  The new elementals gives me hope it is possible to make a workable deck though, namely Fire Fly and Igneous Elemental, creating 1 mana 5/5's, pretty broken, also all of the created elementals have the same name.

 

Lakkari Sacrifice:  This quest, I don't think will really see much play.  Discard zoo will probably be a strong deck, but missing your one drop is very problematic in zoo, and to top that off, most of the time when you drop Doomguard on turn 5, you generally discard nothing.  If you wanted to go with a more value or control oriented warlock deck, I feel that Lord Jaraxxus is simply going to be better, he is not only arguably stronger, but is much less restrictive in deck building.  However, I do see the potential for Lakkari Sacrifice to be a tech choice in discard zoo in a control meta.

 

Awaken The Makers:  I think this is the first quest that will see play in its respective arch-type.  That being said, I think it will only see play because it is a 5 mana 8/8 with taunt that has a reasonably strong effect that you will always get if the game goes on long enough.  I don't actually think Amara, Warden of Hope is strong enough to carry the arch-type by herself, and if control priest isn't viable (I personally don't think it will be), then you just won't see this card.  Now for why I think this card is on the weak side, life total rarely matters in control v control match ups so her effect is less useful there, and when playing aggro decks, you have to give up a card in your opening hand, to play 7 different minions to get this card, something that will rarely be done before turn 8-9, then you have to actually have the mana to cast this, which probably means you won't actually be able to play Amara before turn 9 consistently.  When most aggro decks are capable of killing you on turn 5, that is just another way of saying you lost.  On top of that, if you manage to survive to turn 9 you have probably stabilized without her.

 

Jungle Giants:  I really don't think this quest is all that amazing either.  Unless you pack your deck with a lot of sub par 5+ attack minions, I really feel like there is no way to reasonably complete this quest before you are at 10 mana, or would have ramped into 10 mana if you were playing classic ramp druid over the quest deck.  Against control, ramp is favored even without the quest, because of all the high quality threats it can play turn after turn.  On top of that, druid lacks the efficient card draw to really abuse 0 mana minions.  Also, this quest does nothing to curtail druids problem with aggro decks.  However, I do think this quest will see play in jade.  Jade will always complete this (given the time), and the having a bunch of 0 mana minions in your deck, while not broken strong, can enable a lot of pretty degenerate combos, think 0 mana auctioneer cycling jade idols playing whatever other minions it also draws.  Overall, I think this card is too clunky and slow to define its own archtype and while strong in jade, not gamebreakingly so.

 

The Marsh Queen:  Probably going to get a bit of flak for having this quest so low, but I actually think it is somewhat weaker then it appears at first.  Make no mistake, I think this card is bonkers strong and will definitely be played and will define a deck arch-type, but I can't help but compare this card to the shaman quest.  The shaman quest is less restrictive in terms of deck building, easier to pull off, and I would rather have 7 (Or however many you end up drawing on average) murlocs in my hand then a bunch of raptors in my deck.  On top of that, having a deck filled with 1 drops and having to skip your 1 drop on turn 1 to play this quest is HUGELY disadvantageous for you, where as murloc decks don't actually have that many cards they want to play on turn 1.  Also, having the more powerful immediate effect is often more important for hyper aggressive decks, it gives your opponent less time to stabilize.

 

Open the Waygate: I think this quest is going to keep "freeze" mage viable.  Going to have some sort of 2 turn kill set up, like Sorcerer's Apprentice + Sorcerer's Apprentice + Molten Reflection + Molten Reflection + Archmage Antonidas or probably more reasonably Arcane Giant + Arcane Giant + Alexstrasza then run a bunch of stall effects and cards that generate you extra spells, and go for the combo kill.  The only real concerns would be if the meta is too aggressive to allow such a strategy and/or if you can fit in enough draw cards and stall stall cards with your combo package and quest package.  On top of that, the sheer amount of value the extra spells will generate could win you some match ups by themselves.  I think this new type of freeze mage deck could be a dominant and shaping force in the meta.

 

Unite the Murlocs: I think this quest is just ridiculously strong.  The quest is super easy to complete, on top of that, missing your 1 drop in a murloc deck is far less punishing then it is in most aggressive decks.  There have been a lot of strong murloc synergy cards printed this expansion as well.  The one failing of almost all hyper aggressive dump your hand sort of decks is just running out of steam and with Megafin that just won't happen anymore.  To make it even more appealing Megafin is a huge body that can end the game by himself.  The sheer amount of attrition murloc decks will be able to pull off is truly frightening and impressive.  

 

Fire Plume's Heart:  I think this is by far the strongest quest.  Maybe not in terms of raw power the quest itself provides but just in terms of the amount of options it opens up.  Being able, and in fact encouraged, to build your deck to counter aggressive decks while also giving you an effect that is better then Lord Jaraxxus at grinding out control decks that you are guaranteed to draw in a timely fashion, all while not half killing yourself makes this quest gamebreakingly strong.   It even gives you an out vs jade, the amount of pressure you can put on with this plus something like Grommash Hellscream (imagine hitting face with your hero power + weapon swing, followed up next turn by a grom that's 22 damage over 2 turns) can end the game very fast.  I still don't think the match will be favored, it will give control warriors an out, an actual way to win the match, instead of being ground out under the inevitability of Jade Idol.

 

So, that is my long winded and ranty thoughts.  I would love to hear your guys's opinions on the new quests.

[Strongpoint 74]

I love murloc decks and I doubt that aggro murloc quest shaman will be even close to competitively viable. Problem is skipping the first turn and... playing something on turn two.

What are you happy to play? Murloc Tidehunter? Nope. Bilefin Tidehunter? Not really. Blowgill Sniper? lol. Bluegill Warrior? Nope.  New 2 mana 2\3 murloc with no target to buff? No. New totem? doesn't look aggro at all.

What I expect to see is decks with the finja package + 2xCall in the Finishers. That is enough to complete the quest and doesn't require placing bad 2 drops and situational 3 drops in your deck

[VaraTreledees 138]

1 hour ago, Strongpoint said:

I love murloc decks and I doubt that aggro murloc quest shaman will be even close to competitively viable. Problem is skipping the first turn and... playing something on turn two.

What are you happy to play? Murloc Tidehunter? Nope. Bilefin Tidehunter? Not really. Blowgill Sniper? lol. Bluegill Warrior? Nope.  New 2 mana 2\3 murloc with no target to buff? No. New totem? doesn't look aggro at all.

What I expect to see is decks with the finja package + 2xCall in the Finishers. That is enough to complete the quest and doesn't require placing bad 2 drops and situational 3 drops in your deck

The only murloc you would even want to play on turn 1 is Murloc Tidecaller, and Murloc Tidehunter also counts as 2 for the quest, which is pretty good (not necessarily an incredibly strong play but still not bad).  On top of that, the totem is really strong, so many decks have trouble killing a 3 health minion on turn 2, even if it doesn't scream aggro, I think the amount of guys you will get off it makes it worth it.  It is completely possible that murlocs simply aren't good enough to compete, but the quest is strong enough in a deck that wants to dump your hand that I feel like it will be, besides Call in the Finishers is kind of really bad, I doubt you would ever want to play two copies of that (I could see 1 possibly in an aggressive murloc deck simply to ensure you complete your quest but even that is suspect).

Edited April 4, 2017 by VaraTreledees

[FanOfValeera 253]

5 hours ago, VaraTreledees said:

Lakkari Sacrifice:  This quest, I don't think will really see much play.  Discard zoo will probably be a strong deck, but missing your one drop is very problematic in zoo, and to top that off, most of the time when you drop Doomguard on turn 5, you generally discard nothing.  If you wanted to go with a more value or control oriented warlock deck, I feel that Lord Jaraxxus is simply going to be better, he is not only arguably stronger, but is much less restrictive in deck building.  However, I do see the potential for Lakkari Sacrifice to be a tech choice in discard zoo in a control meta.

I don't know about this one. Discard Zoo was a popular archetype in Karazhan Meta, it doesn't lose much, Imp Gang Boss and Dark Peddler can be replaced, Power Overwhelming is a big loss and thats about it.

Clutchmother Zavas is great if you can hit the 'discard' on her (I know this is highly RNG, but discard mechanic is completely RNG). Lakkari Felhound is a great body on board, and increases the chances of either hitting the Silverware Golem or Clutchmother Zavas. And warlock doesn't really get short on cards, especially in the turn 5, cause you know, Life Tap.

And, if you discard a minion such as Doomguard, that you would like to have in you hand, there is a chance Cruel Dinomancer will bring it back. You can even kill it yourself with Ravenous Pterrordax to bring a minion back from graveyard.

I agree the slow start to game is not good for zoo, but I don't think it is enough to rate this deck this low.

Also, as I believe jade druid will be quite popular still, we need a deck to keep it in check, and with all due respect, random murlocs won't help (I think that quest is really bad btw)

 

[Strongpoint 74]

3 hours ago, VaraTreledees said:

The only murloc you would even want to play on turn 1 is Murloc Tidecaller, and Murloc Tidehunter also counts as 2 for the quest, which is pretty good (not necessarily an incredibly strong play but still not bad).  On top of that, the totem is really strong, so many decks have trouble killing a 3 health minion on turn 2, even if it doesn't scream aggro, I think the amount of guys you will get off it makes it worth it.  It is completely possible that murlocs simply aren't good enough to compete, but the quest is strong enough in a deck that wants to dump your hand that I feel like it will be, besides Call in the Finishers is kind of really bad, I doubt you would ever want to play two copies of that (I could see 1 possibly in an aggressive murloc deck simply to ensure you complete your quest but even that is suspect).

I think having one card less and skipping the first turn is way to harmful for an outright aggro deck especially when facing another aggro deck.  Imagine what pirate warrior or aggro\tempo rogue or zoo will do with the guy who does nothing on turn one and then proceed with playing 2\1 + 1\1 on turn 2

I am sure that If murloc quest will work, then it will work in midrange decks as and additional win condition

As for the discard quest zoo. They don't have to play the quest on the turn 1. They can activate their quest right before the first discard. 

 

 

[VaraTreledees 138]

17 hours ago, FanOfValeera said:

I don't know about this one. Discard Zoo was a popular archetype in Karazhan Meta, it doesn't lose much, Imp Gang Boss and Dark Peddler can be replaced, Power Overwhelming is a big loss and thats about it.

Clutchmother Zavas is great if you can hit the 'discard' on her (I know this is highly RNG, but discard mechanic is completely RNG). Lakkari Felhound is a great body on board, and increases the chances of either hitting the Silverware Golem or Clutchmother Zavas. And warlock doesn't really get short on cards, especially in the turn 5, cause you know, Life Tap.

And, if you discard a minion such as Doomguard, that you would like to have in you hand, there is a chance Cruel Dinomancer will bring it back. You can even kill it yourself with Ravenous Pterrordax to bring a minion back from graveyard.

I agree the slow start to game is not good for zoo, but I don't think it is enough to rate this deck this low.

Also, as I believe jade druid will be quite popular still, we need a deck to keep it in check, and with all due respect, random murlocs won't help (I think that quest is really bad btw)

 

I think discard zoo will be a strong deck, I just don't think the quest will find its way into the standard list.  You really don't discard that many cards in discard zoo, the deck is curved so aggressively that you generally just dump your hand and you don't end up discarding that many cards.