Caverns Below Aggro Rogue Quest Standard

[Guest]

2 hours ago, OroNerVoSo said:

Stonetusk Boar x2 : not a good card , too many taunts , the result will be you will quest without "effects" , you can't emergency "quest" on him , it's a loss of time.

 

There are only creatures , against mage you will get freezed probably why don't put a x1 of Ironbeak Owl (you can un-freeze your creatures) ? I've used it for quest many , many times against priests and warriors.

Yes, a 5/5 with charge for 1 mana, that definitly is an awful card...

And are you seriously suggesting to insert a silence-minion just to unfreeze one (in numbers: 1!!!) minion on one turn? Why not just finish him with another minion or wait another turn?

I am sorry for the question, but did you actually play rogue-quest-decks?

[OroNerVoSo 1]

30 minutes ago, WedgeAntilles said:

Yes, a 5/5 with charge for 1 mana, that definitly is an awful card...

And are you seriously suggesting to insert a silence-minion just to unfreeze one (in numbers: 1!!!) minion on one turn? Why not just finish him with another minion or wait another turn?

I am sorry for the question, but did you actually play rogue-quest-decks?

Yes I played a lot of games with rogue and the silence is not bad at all.

charge 5/5 ? if you are able to survive until quest completion yes. otherwise you have an useless card in your hand.

i'm talking with "some" games behind me.

and when i see those decks i also think "does they play rogue?"

 

actually i never said i need a silence for just "un-freeze" there are many other uses of the owl.

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by OroNerVoSo

[positiv2 950]

3 hours ago, OroNerVoSo said:

charge 5/5 ? if you are able to survive until quest completion yes. otherwise you have an useless card in your hand.

Or a 1-drop minion that can help you complete the quest in case something bad happens to your Swashburglars. Besides, why even play the quest in the first place if you cannot take advantage of Crystal Core?

Owl is too situational to be taken advantage of. 

6 hours ago, OroNerVoSo said:

i think you should find a place for a Sherazin, Corpse Flower.

Mimic pod x2 : imho it's heavy

Vanish x2 : imho it's heavy

Firstly, how is Mimic Pod too heavy, but Sherazin, Corpse Flower is not?
Next, the deck is not miracoli enough to allow you to reliably trigger Sherazin, Corpse Flower.
Finally, Vanish can indeed be too heavy sometimes, and can be replaced if you are facing failure with it. 

[zifmia 14]

Personally, I have found vanish to be a very valuable card in this deck. Yes, sometimes it is a dead card in your hand, and you aren't likely to want extra copies from mimic pod, but when you need it, vanish can be a game-saver. 

Late game against a freeze mage, to bounce multiple frozen charge minions back to your hand. Early game with prep, to clear an opponent's board while returning quest minions to your hand. Clearing enemy taunts off the board to close out the game. Occasionally just as a desperation bounce mechanism to complete the quest when you draw badly.

Vanish is a heavy card, and is going to need prep to have an early impact, but if the game runs to turn 8, 6 mana to clear the board plus 2 5/5 chargers may be just what you need to win.

[KingMe 289]

4 minutes ago, zifmia said:

Personally, I have found vanish to be a very valuable card in this deck. Yes, sometimes it is a dead card in your hand, and you aren't likely to want extra copies from mimic pod, but when you need it, vanish can be a game-saver. 

Late game against a freeze mage, to bounce multiple frozen charge minions back to your hand. Early game with prep, to clear an opponent's board while returning quest minions to your hand. Clearing enemy taunts off the board to close out the game. Occasionally just as a desperation bounce mechanism to complete the quest when you draw badly.

Vanish is a heavy card, and is going to need prep to have an early impact, but if the game runs to turn 8, 6 mana to clear the board plus 2 5/5 chargers may be just what you need to win.

Well put. Out of the different versions of this archetype I personally found the versions running at least one copy of Vanish to be more successful. It has more than one utility which makes it more viable. 

[grellth 1]

I managed to move down a couple of ranks after reviewing the critique of my play and updating my deck to match the latest version. Please take a look at this replay and suggest some additional thoughts on what I could have done differently.

https://hsreplay.net/replay/3zvEGC7j6v866YdzevW46S

[Guest]

IMO you wasted Patches the Pirate

You played him on turn 2 and he was just sitting on the board for a turn. Your opponent would have well be able to take him out.

 

[Guest Markey]

On 2017-4-10 at 10:09 AM, Guest Protopal said:

This is the most disappointing deck I ever played, there's no win rate. It also hurts how much dust I've wasted on crafting it.

You may only be losing and saying these things because u dont know how to play it so if u read it u would be winning.

Its a great deck.

[grellth 1]

Any suggestions on how to play this better?

https://hsreplay.net/replay/rySMYM6c29s7FVRbgwVtcK

 

[KingMe 289]

10 minutes ago, grellth said:

Any suggestions on how to play this better?

https://hsreplay.net/replay/rySMYM6c29s7FVRbgwVtcK

 

I think you did well considering the hand and draws that he had. The main thing I saw that I would have done differently was on Turn 8, I would have held the Bloodsail Cultist.  You overextend your board and Brawl got you, but even then I don't think it would have mattered given the draw you got with your Mimic Pod next turn and the fact that he was holding Primordial Drake and Sleep with the Fishes. Seeing both hands the entire game, I think the game was in his favor.  

[positiv2 950]

2 hours ago, grellth said:

Any suggestions on how to play this better?

https://hsreplay.net/replay/rySMYM6c29s7FVRbgwVtcK

 

To add to what KingMe said - it is often better to provide a bigger sample, as it is hard to say what you are doing wrong from just one replay, especially if the one loss could have been cause by the opponent's luck (or your lack thereof).
On turn 3, trading with the Southsea Deckhand would have been fine, as the card did not have much use for you, and you would remove a taunt minion from the board with it.
Your plays didn't seem proactive enough, given what you had in hand. More aggressive approach would have been helpful, as you would have major issues beating taunt warrior in the late-game anyway.
Vanish is pretty much a dead card in this matchup for majority of the game, due to its drawback of helping your opponent play more taunt minions. Additionally, on that turn, freezing minion was unnecessary, as it was returned to the hand. You should have frozen Garrosh.
You overextended against a warrior and got punished for it. You should try to play against brawl, unless you are half-dead and need to finish off your opponent quickly.

[Guest Grateful Ogre]

I just want to thank L0rinda and Icy Veins team, this variation of Quest Rogue helped me to achieve rank 5 for the very 1st time.

It might seem laughable to others, but I am a really terrible player who struggles, yet barely gets to rank 10 every season. Not mentioning rank Legend, even rank 9 or 8 was a dream.

Now I am rank 5 and can't be more grateful, even though I am stuck haha.

[grellth 1]

I agree with Grateful Ogre.  I always struggled to get to rank 13 and was concerned about the new tiers.  The feedback I have been getting is also helping me think about my opponents options which never occurred before.  Positiv2 mentioned that a larger replay sample may help commenting on my play issues.  I just had a rough patch of games (2 wins, 8 losses at rank 9). Any comments / suggestions other than "switch to single player games" would be appreciated. Hopefully, others will benefit from the analysis also.

1)  Warrior https://hsreplay.net/replay/abf3ET2M64ZWp5GMBJwYEN

2) Rogue  https://hsreplay.net/replay/BcT5MZocbBGW3xfNQPbtPG

3) Warrior https://hsreplay.net/replay/smjjByfmvRaw2eujQekyYn

4) Hunter https://hsreplay.net/replay/LfmBrp3tQY9PzizeAFoGfJ

5) Hunter https://hsreplay.net/replay/Wf9PP7X5XNJXGzhYMawiw7

6) Rogue https://hsreplay.net/replay/PxcEAfd3STQog8wfhRtpEk

7) Rogue https://hsreplay.net/replay/ehkM8PB57ZRGaFZRaesgi4  (Win)

8) Rogue https://hsreplay.net/replay/7dwhtQVUCQBUakfYSESXz6

9) Paladin https://hsreplay.net/replay/G77reEXiWyvTnU6PNLPgVN (Win)

10) Druid https://hsreplay.net/replay/9sbFAhgGpHoUL3Ywdw4NKN

[positiv2 950]

@grellthI'm quite sleepy , so I might some misplays, sorry if I do.
1st replay - you should keep Swashburglar in your hand at almost all times.
Turn 1 play was not proactive enough. The Caverns Below into Fire Fly would have been better. You can win against pirate warrior even if you trigger your quest later in the game, which means you should be looking for more proactive plays to contest the board.
On turn 3 I would have preferred a play including Swashburglar to get an answer to the Frothing Berserker. 
It's often better to return the Fire Fly, rather than Flame Elemental, as it allows you flood the board with 1/2 bodies.
2nd replay - Turn 2, a more proactive play would have been better. Bilefin Tidehunter seems like a good play here.

I think that I can conclude already that your biggest issue with this deck is that you aren't making enough proactive plays, which is a major issue when playing this deck, and even more so with this build. Try playing more proactively and upload a few more replays (3-4 should be enough).

[grellth 1]

Thanks @positiv2.  You mentioned "proactive" in my other thread, but I didn't understand.   It sounds like I need to maintain a stronger board presence.  I was trying to hold on to minions in my hand until I decided which to use as the quest trigger.  I will make an adjustment an upload some more replays next week.

[KingMe 289]

5 minutes ago, grellth said:

Thanks @positiv2.  You mentioned "proactive" in my other thread, but I didn't understand.   It sounds like I need to maintain a stronger board presence.  I was trying to hold on to minions in my hand until I decided which to use as the quest trigger.  I will make an adjustment an upload some more replays next week.

What he means is with this deck you need to be the one taking the fight to them instead of the other way around. Like with almost all other aggro decks your opponent needs to be the one reacting to the situation. 

[OroNerVoSo 1]

New Season! as a Rogue lover , still working on this quest deck.

I'm actually having fun adding a double copy of Blubber Baron. it's a "fixed" version of an Edwin VanCleef .

wrecked combo. while you QUEST , Baron grow bigger in your hand. outstanding when quest target is Novice Engineer with Shadowstep and Youthful Brewmaster

9/9 down without Crystal Core.

 

Edited May 2, 2017 by OroNerVoSo

[positiv2 950]

@OroNerVoSoSadly (or maybe luckily), Blubber Baron is suffering from the Bolvar syndrome - if you draw it late, it is a Wisp, which is simply too risky. Then again, this is CasinoStone, a card game about rolling dice for kids, you why not have a little fun. What's the usual size you get?

[OroNerVoSo 1]

14 hours ago, positiv2 said:

@OroNerVoSoSadly (or maybe luckily), Blubber Baron is suffering from the Bolvar syndrome - if you draw it late, it is a Wisp, which is simply too risky. Then again, this is CasinoStone, a card game about rolling dice for kids, you why not have a little fun. What's the usual size you get?

i'm actually having those problems , but sometimes... It works (it's a fun , experimentation , i like to try many types of cards inside the same "theme" deck)

Early (before quest) : i was able to raise it as a 13/13 , very often It is a 7/7 or a 9/9 , anyway if played in the "control quest style" you can play a 5/5 or a 6/6 at 3 mana. getting some extra time/extra standard draw.

Late : Late is better (after quest) , it starts from 5/5 and this deck (my type , [i'm not actually playing charge creatures] is supposed to keep playing low mana creatures with battlecry elementals like Glacial Shard ,Swashburglar ,Fire Fly  , Blubber Baron does not like Southsea Deckhand or Stonetusk Boar 

anyway it's a mini trick in the deck. i noticed it is very usefull because this let you aggro down with Fire Fly , enemy will concentrate on cleaning your board made of 1/2 and then you drop the blubber.

Edited May 3, 2017 by OroNerVoSo

[grellth 1]

I am trying to be more proactive, as I understand it.

Please evaluate these replays.

https://hsreplay.net/replay/QLA53hkqiUrKBR24QdVWsQ      (Warrior)

https://hsreplay.net/replay/Hr3G9NT4CmG65udCbRHKh8   (Hunter)

https://hsreplay.net/replay/9LYQdvSCdQvvnExJvxs3wA       (Paladin)

https://hsreplay.net/replay/TCo9VZaL2Hptqreqh66ZVV     (Shaman)

 

 

 

[positiv2 950]

@grellthThe first replay seems fine. There are some plays hat I would do differently, but in the end would end up in the same situation.

Second replay - coining out Swashburglar was a solid play, given you were playing against hunter. It would give you board presence and would not screw your curve up. 
I feel like the Mimic Pod was a good thing to prep, as the extra mana would be nice, and would fill your curve nicely.
You overextended against a hunter without having any future advantage from it (i.e. Crystal Core), for which you got punished hard. This allowed the hunter to clutch and win.

Against paladin, playing the second Fire Fly would have been fine, as you would have gained 2 Flame Elementals from the Igneous Elemental, making it a total of 4, allowing the completion of the quest, while also having more minions on board.
Bouncing the Fire Fly was unnecessary. You could play the Flame Elementals to gain the Crystal Core, while also keeping the bounce power for Stonetusk Boars.

Against the shaman, you should have played Swashburglar first on the last turn, giving you more information. In this case, it would have possibly saved your life. You should always play Swashburglar or Novice Engineer first if you are going to play those cards anyway, and as long as it doesn't mess up your order of play. 

So, it seems that you should try to draw first in order to obtain more information, and to play around commonly played cards and use the coin more.

[grellth 1]

Please comment on my replays from today, managed to get rank 10:

https://hsreplay.net/replay/eVmp7Jm4AHtA6vpUPGSG2m

https://hsreplay.net/replay/tMKhUUbnUbJGGT6p8jghkh

https://hsreplay.net/replay/YadPtppG8ctaVhcWGceXN7

[positiv2 950]

17 hours ago, grellth said:

Please comment on my replays from today, managed to get rank 10:

https://hsreplay.net/replay/eVmp7Jm4AHtA6vpUPGSG2m

https://hsreplay.net/replay/tMKhUUbnUbJGGT6p8jghkh

https://hsreplay.net/replay/YadPtppG8ctaVhcWGceXN7

For the first replay - always play the quest first, you never know what's going to happen. Even though getting multiple Preparations and/or Mimic Pods is very unlikely, it can still happen, as HS is a game of RNG.
Again, you aren't proactive enough - coining out on T1 Fire Fly would have given you a bit of board, while also not losing the bounce value, as you had another in your hand. Since your opponent had no way of killing your minions, you would have the quest completed on turn 3.
On turn 6, a more proactive approach would have been better - instead of playing the Mimic Pod, you should have played Gadgetzan Ferryman and both Flame Elemental, as you were behind and drawing more cards wouldn't have helped you with that. 

Second replay:
You are doing the opposite of what the guide advises - you are playing Patches the Pirate as a 1/1, rather than waiting for Crystal Core to make it a 5/5. The 1/1 Jade Golem wasn't dangerous in any way, so there was no reason to play the Patches the Pirate.

Third replay - you had a strong proactive start but then you decided to play Mimic Pod on turn 4 when behind on the board. Same goes for the following turn.

Again, the issue seems that you returned to the non-proactive playstyle. A rule of thumb - do not play Mimic Pod when behind on board. As for the evo shaman replays, I will get to them tomorrow. If I don't, send me a PM to remind me.

[Paracel 165]

I have some concerns about the card choices presented in the guide.

First of all - Swashburglar. The card is completely out of place, and I strongly believe it is outdated at the moment and does not belong to Quest Rogue's composture. It gives you Burgled spells on the bounces! Yeah, but do you have any use for them unless you land a really good one? It's not drawing cards, and Burgled spells do not advance your gameplan of assembling the Crystal Core. You don' want to spend your mana on them either, because they are not pieces, and you don't win without completing the quest, period.

It gets out Patches consistently with 4 pirates! Does Patches really bail you out of early game, when you're looking to develop your combo ahead and not to die? No. He is much stronger after Crystal Core, and chances you draw your Deckhand around that time are good.

I repeat myself - Quest Rogue does not win without Crystal Core, and Swashburglar does a little to contribute to it. I suggest a core replacement of it with Wisp, which really helps you goldfish faster while being the exact same 5/5 later, or more dedicated tech card against your worse matchups like Hungry Crab, Golakka Crawler or Doomsayer. I think they deserve at least a mention in "card choices" section.

Bilefin Tidehunter is ok past Core, but is a pretty poor bounce target, so I would consider him a solid main choice if you are looking for a goldfish config - going for a Conquest line-up, for example - but not just as great on the ladder, where I'd prefer a more dedicated tech card in its place. 

There isn't really much difference between bouncing a Swashburglar, Tidehunter or either Crabs, because the battlecry value is marginal for the deck's gameplan, except Crabs can drastically change the equation against Murlocs and Pirates, up to the point where you have a realisitc chance to defeat them as opposed to not having one.

@positiv2I don't have the time to give my analysis on the replays just now, maybe later today, but I think the more passive lines and reactive gameplay are acceptable and perhaps even preffered approaches to playing the deck, as well as casing Mimic Pod when behind on board. The "proactiveness" of Crystal Core is spending all your mana to get there, not wrestling for board with 1/1s and such, and also you probably should never take the risky line of leaving your primary bounce target in play. 

I agree with what you said about getting the maximum intel before you start going off. Choosing to go on X and them podding into 3 copies of Y sucks, That's why I try to get Mimic Pod cast ASAP.

[FanOfValeera 253]

1 hour ago, Paracel said:

 Hungry Crab, Golakka Crawler

Yes, definitely, and Kolento adds them to his own quest deck in two copies each. Nothing better than eating murlocs and pirates alive.

 

1 hour ago, Paracel said:

 Doomsayer

No, why? 

This is a fairly fast combo deck, where Doomsayer does basically nothing. Against aggro, it may sound good to slam it on board Turn 2 to stall, but what about what you try to accomplish? I believe as slow as you are at completing the quest, it gets harder and harder to win, against pretty much anything, because minion quality in this deck is abysmal. And both crabs should help you against most of the aggro decks anyways, all of them except new mid hunter (it is basically an aggro deck with Savannah Highmane and Nesting Roc), actually.