Aleco

Vivid Velen: An In-Depth Guide

22 posts in this topic

It seems I found an issue here, I can't hit the "like" button twice.

This is amazing, not just because of the deck and the work you've put in to make this post with very clear and thorough explanations, but also because I was toying around with something similar including Vivid Nightmare and Twilight's Call but using Clockwork Automaton and Malygos.

This deck looks so damn close to the one I created (only a handful of cards are different) but this one is obviously better designed.

What I like the most about your post is the tips about mistakes. Even though I did not pay as much attention to it as I should have I noticed myself that Shadow Visions isn't as great in the early game as it is later. Thanks for making this part very clear for me :)

Edited by Caldyrvan
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the deck's great and really fun! so far it's kind of an obscure OTK deck so most people are not expecting the horror about to hit them lol. thanks for the awesome and detailed guide!

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First, thank you for the guide, and congratulations for the idea!

Do you think that this deck could work in wild too (with appropriate changes)?

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I may not have understood something basic, but I have now played four games and clearly lost them all. 

I really like these kinds of decks and I'm certainly not a good player, but I'm a little disappointed now or did I just never have the right cards in my hand?

Here are the four replays, maybe someone will take a look at them.

https://hsreplay.net/replay/QEEXDLgWczv8daKvazCYLi

https://hsreplay.net/replay/PXGTVTTxAFCwGyan3qMCek

https://hsreplay.net/replay/L9Qkc4MBpUbiHQWzzXtqWf

https://hsreplay.net/replay/KsHUvCaau7VfDp3xrXqkPa

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8 hours ago, TheSerafan said:

I may not have understood something basic, but I have now played four games and clearly lost them all. 

I really like these kinds of decks and I'm certainly not a good player, but I'm a little disappointed now or did I just never have the right cards in my hand?

Here are the four replays, maybe someone will take a look at them.

 

Game 1: Play your Radiant Elemental on curve.  That way he can soak some damage and contest the board rather than sitting in your hand until it's so late that the mage is ignoring him in order to go face.

Game 2: So you had a rough draw here, but you did yourself no favours playing either.  Again, play the Elemental on curve. Yes it will die, but it's contesting the board and it's taking damage rather than you. Also, you played your spirit lash too early. 2 mana and a card to kill nothing and heal for three is not good value. I think you were trying to set up for possibly top-decking holy nova, but Thalnos is a better card to dream about, so hope for him instead.

Game 3: Do not keep a diamond spellstone against Paladin. You've got a million spells in the deck, and need to get very very unlucky to draw spellstone late enough to really screw you. Maybe keep that PW:S you threw away, but definitely don't keep the Spellstone.  You keep Spellstone against Shaman or Priest, against Paladin you need minions and board clears. Also play your Radiant Elemental when you draw it. It was probably to late to matter, but it can't help you if it's sitting in your hand.

Game 4: Don't keep a Diamond Spellstone against Rogue.  Like, if you've got a Radiant  and PW:S and the coin and Thalnos, then maybe you keep the Spellstone, but otherwise you need to go digging for stuff that will help you not die.  Also, do not coin out Thalnos. A hypothetical Thalnos + Spirit Lash is really strong here, don't throw it away. Finally, on turn 2 you played Loot Hoarder (which the rogue could kill with their weapon) instead of Radiant Elemental (which the rogue couldn't). If you'd played Radiant, you would have been able to clear their board on 3. Instead, the Deckhand went on to deal 8 more damage and you had to play Mass Dispell on 4 rather than say, healing for 2 and playing a Loot Hoarder.  Playing Loot Hoarder instead of Radiant cost you 10 damage.  And when the Rogue played all their cards you were only at -5.

Overall you had some rough luck with the draws, this deck struggles when it doesn't get it's deathrattle minions early, but you need to be less greedy on the mulligan. The Diamond Spellstone isn't going to win you the game if you don't live long enough to use it. And play your Radiant Elementals. They are the best statted minions you have. Treat them like it.

 

Edited by asdsafasdfadsvsdf
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Great deck and a great guide. I have only played 4 matches, but man its a fun deck to play. Just thinking about my opponents face when i do 40 hp of dmg in a turn makes me giggle. 

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13 hours ago, asdsafasdfadsvsdf said:

Overall you had some rough luck with the draws, this deck struggles when it doesn't get it's deathrattle minions early, but you need to be less greedy on the mulligan. The Diamond Spellstone isn't going to win you the game if you don't live long enough to use it. And play your Radiant Elementals. They are the best statted minions you have. Treat them like it.

 

Thank you for your advice. I'll check the replays again. As I said, I like such decks a lot, but somehow I really felt "destroyed". But apparently there are still some things to improve, which I simply did not recognize.

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I think Aleco is a really good player but he must also been damn lucky with card draw in his favor. The deck has a good chance of drawing bad and that very often. And that sucks especially when your opponent plays straight on curve.while still managing their resources well and not committing too much to the board.

Even though I like the deck, the games go on too long. After a few games, even with wins it feels like I wasted my time just to get the 2 seconds of glory during the OTK :D

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On 4/18/2018 at 7:30 AM, Aleco said:

You can watch the whole game right here. It was played against Sonecarox (whose name I recognized from the Coffin Crasher card reveal) while he was streaming, so I was able to find the VOD on Twitch after the game was over. If anyone reading this speaks Brazilian, I'd love to hear what he had to say about the game!

Brazillian doesn't exist, he speaks Portuguese :) luckily I can help with that!

He's mostly talking Summoner Wars early on (game on window in bottom left) and only starts actually talking about the game when he topdecks Aluneth just in time to stay in the game and cheers for that moment!

Then he comments when shit happens for Aleco: "Geez he just burned Prophet Velen!" and a bit later "This is going to be a good day!".

Shortly afterwards you turn the game with that huge spirit lash: "Damn he just gained a ton of life, WOW". And "Can't believe" just before he concedes. He actually swears at you after haha :D then moves on to next game and that's all folks, GG!

Edited by Seksi
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Played 10 matches with this deck today, really enjoyed it. Went 7-3 at rank 5 and still learning. Two of the games that I lost, I couldn't quite stabilize against aggro, but there were other games against aggro where it felt like it was just impossible to lose, I think on the whole the MU is good. One game I bricked pretty hard. I'm not sure if I was particularly lucky, but the deck didn't feel like it drew badly - to me it felt like it had plenty of ways to dig and stall. 

If someone's having problems with the deck I would suggest reading through Aleco's post again and try to keep in your head the matchups and mulligan advice. I would have gone 3-7 instead of 7-3 if I hadn't paid attention to the mulligan decisions. 

The advice relating to Shadow Visions was particularly good. From playing Raza priest I was somewhat comfortable with not playing Visions on 2, but this deck really seems to want to hold it. I was often casting it with ~7 cards left in deck for extra mind blasts or Vivid Nightmares. As someone who was used to playing Raza OTK decks and not Inner Fire decks, it wasn't intuitive for me to run out Radiant Elemental on curve either, but for this deck it's a plus if it dies (although in most of my games I held the second copy once I drew it for the combo turn). 

Anyways, I'm not a stellar player and my sample size was small, but those were my initial observations. Oh, and it feels really bad to play Holy Nova in 2018 but in a world of Paladins it seems like a necessary evil. 

Another bonus was that I only had to craft the Visions, since I already had everything else from playing every broken priest archetype from the past 3 or so metas. 

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I really like the concept of this deck, but i feel it really struggles against the card draw. like if you dont get valen until the end the whole thing falls apart. When it works, it feels great, but when it doesnt you can feel helpless. Went a few games where I didnt draw a single minion by turn 6 which just left me sol against the ramp.

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It's certainly a challenging deck and important things to point out (imo) are:

  • Be patient
  • Don't over react
  • Get used to a board state that looks bad for you
    • and be patient
    • and don't over react :D
  • Don't play this deck when you are in a hurry/short on time.
Edited by Caldyrvan

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On 18/04/2018 at 9:44 PM, TheSerafan said:

I may not have understood something basic, but I have now played four games and clearly lost them all. 

Combo decks take a while to get the hang of. I’ve played a lot of wild combo malygos druid in the last few months. The first few days I played it I was losing like crazy, and even after a couple of weeks I was still seeing situations where I would or might have won had I made a different choice (or not roped). But that’s the beauty of a good deck imo, if most of the games you’re losing are down to your mistakes, once you eliminate those mistakes you’re going to be doing great. And, whilst I dare say I still make some mistakes, they’re much rarer and I’ve climbed very near the top of Legend with it on a few occasions.

I thought I’d give Vivid Velen a go this afternoon.... I’m currently 1-9 with it hehe. A lot of that stat line was down to me making mistakes - after a while you know the combo calculations by heart whereas right now I’m often spending most of my turn on key decisions doing sums rather than strategy. Does seem a bit vulnerable to aggro/tempo though.

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On 4/19/2018 at 11:52 PM, Whisla said:

I really like the concept of this deck, but i feel it really struggles against the card draw. like if you dont get valen until the end the whole thing falls apart. When it works, it feels great, but when it doesnt you can feel helpless. Went a few games where I didnt draw a single minion by turn 6 which just left me sol against the ramp.

pretty much this.  If velen bottom of deck whole thing falls apart

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Well, Aleco made it pretty high Legend with it so clearly it can work, but I’m still struggling with it too. The only matchup (that I’m encountering) that I’m confident in really is paladins. I can’t replicate Aleco’s results against druid at all, think I’ve lost every game. It seems very hard to ever get the velen down because they can just keep pressuring you, and at a pinch when you do armour up like crazy and hope you can’t get enough damage.

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On my side, I don’t draw the necessary pieces most of the time. I am turn 10 with missing velen or another piece.

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Same here, even though I had a few very nice moments with this deck, they have been too few.

I really tried to fully concentrate on the games, think hard about my mulligans and every turn before I chose what I do but my win rate got worse and worse. Maybe I am just too dumb to play it correctly, who knows, but the time it consumes in comparison to the rewards is too low. Too point out reasons I lost, and I see nothing I could do about that by "playing better":

  • Simply couldn't manage to get the combo pieces.
  • Got the combo but no (not enough) removal to stay alive.
  • Got my deathrattle minions but no Twilight's Call or the other way around, or had to play a Call for just one deathrattle to be returned which feels really awkward.
Edited by Caldyrvan

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Ill do a follow up now that iv played maybe 50+ games with this deck.

 

Being patient is an understatement. Where this deck shines is when you know how close your enemy is to killing you then just stopping it. You have got to keep yourself from burning cards bc your hand size gets too big but the deck itself has a lot of ways to get your combo without actually drawing all the cards.

I learned that unless you really have to get something else out, Shadow reaper is almost always the right play. It will drastically increase you board clear and could even put you in kill range without needing the full combo.

i still really like it, but its really easy to lose against an aggro deck if you dont get a semi decent draw.

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I tried this deck for weeks now and unfortunately I can assure it's plainly unplayable. Maybe the meta shifted, but it has almost 0% winrate against more than 90% of the decks out there and it's still pretty hard against the decks it's supposed to counter.

Odd paladins have just disappeared form the meta and even paladin is an insta concede, I'm seeing less and less warlocks, warriors and druids. Right now big spell mage is the only comfortable matchup. The meta has become way too much aggressive for a deck with only 4 minions and that 4 games out of 5 requires you to draw at least 27 cards to win.

It's very very fun to use, but it just can't be played in ranked. I can bet that next season even OP won't make it to legend with this deck only.

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So I've been playing it almost none stop now and I really at a stale mate lol.

Paladins, warlock and shamans are no problem at all, priests and druids usually turn out pretty great too.

I think the most problems I have is witch aggro secret mage, odd hunter and odd rogue.

To summarise:

slow decks, low health minion decks = easy

aggro spell decks = rough

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