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Aleco

Vivid Velen: An In-Depth Guide

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It seems I found an issue here, I can't hit the "like" button twice.

This is amazing, not just because of the deck and the work you've put in to make this post with very clear and thorough explanations, but also because I was toying around with something similar including Vivid Nightmare and Twilight's Call but using Clockwork Automaton and Malygos.

This deck looks so damn close to the one I created (only a handful of cards are different) but this one is obviously better designed.

What I like the most about your post is the tips about mistakes. Even though I did not pay as much attention to it as I should have I noticed myself that Shadow Visions isn't as great in the early game as it is later. Thanks for making this part very clear for me :)

Edited by Caldyrvan
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the deck's great and really fun! so far it's kind of an obscure OTK deck so most people are not expecting the horror about to hit them lol. thanks for the awesome and detailed guide!

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First, thank you for the guide, and congratulations for the idea!

Do you think that this deck could work in wild too (with appropriate changes)?

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I may not have understood something basic, but I have now played four games and clearly lost them all. 

I really like these kinds of decks and I'm certainly not a good player, but I'm a little disappointed now or did I just never have the right cards in my hand?

Here are the four replays, maybe someone will take a look at them.

https://hsreplay.net/replay/QEEXDLgWczv8daKvazCYLi

https://hsreplay.net/replay/PXGTVTTxAFCwGyan3qMCek

https://hsreplay.net/replay/L9Qkc4MBpUbiHQWzzXtqWf

https://hsreplay.net/replay/KsHUvCaau7VfDp3xrXqkPa

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8 hours ago, TheSerafan said:

I may not have understood something basic, but I have now played four games and clearly lost them all. 

I really like these kinds of decks and I'm certainly not a good player, but I'm a little disappointed now or did I just never have the right cards in my hand?

Here are the four replays, maybe someone will take a look at them.

 

Game 1: Play your Radiant Elemental on curve.  That way he can soak some damage and contest the board rather than sitting in your hand until it's so late that the mage is ignoring him in order to go face.

Game 2: So you had a rough draw here, but you did yourself no favours playing either.  Again, play the Elemental on curve. Yes it will die, but it's contesting the board and it's taking damage rather than you. Also, you played your spirit lash too early. 2 mana and a card to kill nothing and heal for three is not good value. I think you were trying to set up for possibly top-decking holy nova, but Thalnos is a better card to dream about, so hope for him instead.

Game 3: Do not keep a diamond spellstone against Paladin. You've got a million spells in the deck, and need to get very very unlucky to draw spellstone late enough to really screw you. Maybe keep that PW:S you threw away, but definitely don't keep the Spellstone.  You keep Spellstone against Shaman or Priest, against Paladin you need minions and board clears. Also play your Radiant Elemental when you draw it. It was probably to late to matter, but it can't help you if it's sitting in your hand.

Game 4: Don't keep a Diamond Spellstone against Rogue.  Like, if you've got a Radiant  and PW:S and the coin and Thalnos, then maybe you keep the Spellstone, but otherwise you need to go digging for stuff that will help you not die.  Also, do not coin out Thalnos. A hypothetical Thalnos + Spirit Lash is really strong here, don't throw it away. Finally, on turn 2 you played Loot Hoarder (which the rogue could kill with their weapon) instead of Radiant Elemental (which the rogue couldn't). If you'd played Radiant, you would have been able to clear their board on 3. Instead, the Deckhand went on to deal 8 more damage and you had to play Mass Dispell on 4 rather than say, healing for 2 and playing a Loot Hoarder.  Playing Loot Hoarder instead of Radiant cost you 10 damage.  And when the Rogue played all their cards you were only at -5.

Overall you had some rough luck with the draws, this deck struggles when it doesn't get it's deathrattle minions early, but you need to be less greedy on the mulligan. The Diamond Spellstone isn't going to win you the game if you don't live long enough to use it. And play your Radiant Elementals. They are the best statted minions you have. Treat them like it.

 

Edited by asdsafasdfadsvsdf
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Great deck and a great guide. I have only played 4 matches, but man its a fun deck to play. Just thinking about my opponents face when i do 40 hp of dmg in a turn makes me giggle. 

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13 hours ago, asdsafasdfadsvsdf said:

Overall you had some rough luck with the draws, this deck struggles when it doesn't get it's deathrattle minions early, but you need to be less greedy on the mulligan. The Diamond Spellstone isn't going to win you the game if you don't live long enough to use it. And play your Radiant Elementals. They are the best statted minions you have. Treat them like it.

 

Thank you for your advice. I'll check the replays again. As I said, I like such decks a lot, but somehow I really felt "destroyed". But apparently there are still some things to improve, which I simply did not recognize.

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I think Aleco is a really good player but he must also been damn lucky with card draw in his favor. The deck has a good chance of drawing bad and that very often. And that sucks especially when your opponent plays straight on curve.while still managing their resources well and not committing too much to the board.

Even though I like the deck, the games go on too long. After a few games, even with wins it feels like I wasted my time just to get the 2 seconds of glory during the OTK :D

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On 4/18/2018 at 7:30 AM, Aleco said:

You can watch the whole game right here. It was played against Sonecarox (whose name I recognized from the Coffin Crasher card reveal) while he was streaming, so I was able to find the VOD on Twitch after the game was over. If anyone reading this speaks Brazilian, I'd love to hear what he had to say about the game!

Brazillian doesn't exist, he speaks Portuguese :) luckily I can help with that!

He's mostly talking Summoner Wars early on (game on window in bottom left) and only starts actually talking about the game when he topdecks Aluneth just in time to stay in the game and cheers for that moment!

Then he comments when shit happens for Aleco: "Geez he just burned Prophet Velen!" and a bit later "This is going to be a good day!".

Shortly afterwards you turn the game with that huge spirit lash: "Damn he just gained a ton of life, WOW". And "Can't believe" just before he concedes. He actually swears at you after haha :D then moves on to next game and that's all folks, GG!

Edited by Seksi
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Played 10 matches with this deck today, really enjoyed it. Went 7-3 at rank 5 and still learning. Two of the games that I lost, I couldn't quite stabilize against aggro, but there were other games against aggro where it felt like it was just impossible to lose, I think on the whole the MU is good. One game I bricked pretty hard. I'm not sure if I was particularly lucky, but the deck didn't feel like it drew badly - to me it felt like it had plenty of ways to dig and stall. 

If someone's having problems with the deck I would suggest reading through Aleco's post again and try to keep in your head the matchups and mulligan advice. I would have gone 3-7 instead of 7-3 if I hadn't paid attention to the mulligan decisions. 

The advice relating to Shadow Visions was particularly good. From playing Raza priest I was somewhat comfortable with not playing Visions on 2, but this deck really seems to want to hold it. I was often casting it with ~7 cards left in deck for extra mind blasts or Vivid Nightmares. As someone who was used to playing Raza OTK decks and not Inner Fire decks, it wasn't intuitive for me to run out Radiant Elemental on curve either, but for this deck it's a plus if it dies (although in most of my games I held the second copy once I drew it for the combo turn). 

Anyways, I'm not a stellar player and my sample size was small, but those were my initial observations. Oh, and it feels really bad to play Holy Nova in 2018 but in a world of Paladins it seems like a necessary evil. 

Another bonus was that I only had to craft the Visions, since I already had everything else from playing every broken priest archetype from the past 3 or so metas. 

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I really like the concept of this deck, but i feel it really struggles against the card draw. like if you dont get valen until the end the whole thing falls apart. When it works, it feels great, but when it doesnt you can feel helpless. Went a few games where I didnt draw a single minion by turn 6 which just left me sol against the ramp.

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It's certainly a challenging deck and important things to point out (imo) are:

  • Be patient
  • Don't over react
  • Get used to a board state that looks bad for you
    • and be patient
    • and don't over react :D
  • Don't play this deck when you are in a hurry/short on time.
Edited by Caldyrvan

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On 18/04/2018 at 9:44 PM, TheSerafan said:

I may not have understood something basic, but I have now played four games and clearly lost them all. 

Combo decks take a while to get the hang of. I’ve played a lot of wild combo malygos druid in the last few months. The first few days I played it I was losing like crazy, and even after a couple of weeks I was still seeing situations where I would or might have won had I made a different choice (or not roped). But that’s the beauty of a good deck imo, if most of the games you’re losing are down to your mistakes, once you eliminate those mistakes you’re going to be doing great. And, whilst I dare say I still make some mistakes, they’re much rarer and I’ve climbed very near the top of Legend with it on a few occasions.

I thought I’d give Vivid Velen a go this afternoon.... I’m currently 1-9 with it hehe. A lot of that stat line was down to me making mistakes - after a while you know the combo calculations by heart whereas right now I’m often spending most of my turn on key decisions doing sums rather than strategy. Does seem a bit vulnerable to aggro/tempo though.

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On 4/19/2018 at 11:52 PM, Whisla said:

I really like the concept of this deck, but i feel it really struggles against the card draw. like if you dont get valen until the end the whole thing falls apart. When it works, it feels great, but when it doesnt you can feel helpless. Went a few games where I didnt draw a single minion by turn 6 which just left me sol against the ramp.

pretty much this.  If velen bottom of deck whole thing falls apart

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Well, Aleco made it pretty high Legend with it so clearly it can work, but I’m still struggling with it too. The only matchup (that I’m encountering) that I’m confident in really is paladins. I can’t replicate Aleco’s results against druid at all, think I’ve lost every game. It seems very hard to ever get the velen down because they can just keep pressuring you, and at a pinch when you do armour up like crazy and hope you can’t get enough damage.

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I gave up hehe, never stopped the carnage.

Doing much better with this control/dragon priest with Alexstrazsa/mind blast/DK as a finishing option. https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1095576-theos-1-legend-mind-blast-priest-guide (I swapped out ooze for chameleos to try him out, and dispel for Geist to help with the warlocks and wreck the hadronoxes).

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Same here, even though I had a few very nice moments with this deck, they have been too few.

I really tried to fully concentrate on the games, think hard about my mulligans and every turn before I chose what I do but my win rate got worse and worse. Maybe I am just too dumb to play it correctly, who knows, but the time it consumes in comparison to the rewards is too low. Too point out reasons I lost, and I see nothing I could do about that by "playing better":

  • Simply couldn't manage to get the combo pieces.
  • Got the combo but no (not enough) removal to stay alive.
  • Got my deathrattle minions but no Twilight's Call or the other way around, or had to play a Call for just one deathrattle to be returned which feels really awkward.
Edited by Caldyrvan

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Ill do a follow up now that iv played maybe 50+ games with this deck.

 

Being patient is an understatement. Where this deck shines is when you know how close your enemy is to killing you then just stopping it. You have got to keep yourself from burning cards bc your hand size gets too big but the deck itself has a lot of ways to get your combo without actually drawing all the cards.

I learned that unless you really have to get something else out, Shadow reaper is almost always the right play. It will drastically increase you board clear and could even put you in kill range without needing the full combo.

i still really like it, but its really easy to lose against an aggro deck if you dont get a semi decent draw.

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I tried this deck for weeks now and unfortunately I can assure it's plainly unplayable. Maybe the meta shifted, but it has almost 0% winrate against more than 90% of the decks out there and it's still pretty hard against the decks it's supposed to counter.

Odd paladins have just disappeared form the meta and even paladin is an insta concede, I'm seeing less and less warlocks, warriors and druids. Right now big spell mage is the only comfortable matchup. The meta has become way too much aggressive for a deck with only 4 minions and that 4 games out of 5 requires you to draw at least 27 cards to win.

It's very very fun to use, but it just can't be played in ranked. I can bet that next season even OP won't make it to legend with this deck only.

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So I've been playing it almost none stop now and I really at a stale mate lol.

Paladins, warlock and shamans are no problem at all, priests and druids usually turn out pretty great too.

I think the most problems I have is witch aggro secret mage, odd hunter and odd rogue.

To summarise:

slow decks, low health minion decks = easy

aggro spell decks = rough

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      A new Hearthstone update prepares the Tavern for United in Stormwind, launching August 3. Here are the official patch notes.
      (Source)
      The 21.0 patch prepares the Tavern for United in Stormwind, launching August 3. It also brings a new Hero and cosmetics for Battlegrounds, a major update for Duels, an Arena rotation, and more.
      You can check out all 135 new cards included in United in Stormwind on the card library here.
      Battlegrounds Updates
      NEW HERO
      Galewing Dungar’s Gryphon Choose a flightpath. Complete it to get a bonus!
      Players with Battlegrounds Perks will have early access to Galewing before it's formally released on August 10.
      Duels Updates
      When the 21.0 patch goes live on July 27, all players’ Duels ratings will be reset and the pool of eligible cards you can use to build your 15-card start deck will be updated as follows:
      (NEW) United in Stormwind Wailing Caverns Mini-Set Forged in the Barrens The Darkmoon Races Mini-Set Madness at the Darkmoon Faire Scholomance Academy (NEW) Kobolds & Catacombs Journey to Un’Goro One Night in Kharazan Whispers of the Old Gods Curse of Naxxramas Legacy (Basic/Classic) Core NEW PASSIVE TREASURES
      Party Replacement At the start of your turn, summon a 2/2 Adventurer with a random bonus effect.
      Inspiring Presence After you play a Legendary minion, reduce the cost of a random minion in your hand by (1).
      Greedy Gains Your minions have +2/+2 but cost (2) more (up to 10).
      Meek Mastery Your Neutral minions cost (1) less and have +1/+1.
      Legendary Loot At the start of the game, equip a random Legendary weapon.
      Deathly Death! After a friendly Deathrattle minion dies, destroy the minion with the lowest Health.
      Ooops, All Spells! At the start of the game, destroy all minions in your deck. Your spells cost (1) less and gain +2 Spell Damage.
      BANNED CARDS & BUCKETS
      The following cards have been banned from between-game card buckets and will not be Discoverable:
      Final Showdown              Lost in the Park Defend the Dwarven District       Sorcerer's Gambit            Rise to the Occasion        Seek Guidance  Find the Imposter            Command the Elements The Demon Seed             Raid the Docks  Other Banned cards:
      Unstable Evolution is banned from card buckets but will still be Discoverable. Maestra of the Masquerade is banned from deckbuilding, card buckets, and will not be Discoverable. Seven new designer card buckets have been added as well:
      Furious Fel (Demon Hunter) AHHHH RATS!!!! (Hunter) Fire!!! (Mage) SI:7 (Rogue) ARRRRRRG! (Warrior) Auction House (Neutral) Live to Win (Neutral) Smart buckets have also been updated to include the two new card sets, and two previously missed card sets: Legacy (Classic/Basic) and Demon Hunter Initiate. Lastly, you’ll be able to find United in Stormwind cards in Duels card buckets after the patch goes live and before the expansion launches.
      Arena Rotation

      When United in Stormwind launches on August 3, the Arena will include cards from the following sets:
      United in Stormwind Forged in the Barrens Wailing Caverns Mini-Set Madness at the Darkmoon Faire Darkmoon Races Mini-Set The Witchwood Saviors of Uldum Rastakhan's Rumble Core Book of Heroes Illidan – Coming August 10

      After regaining his freedom, Illidan was eager to prove himself once and for all. But even as he journeyed far from his homeland and joined forces with new allies, the thirst for power never left him. It was only a matter of time before it interfered with his judgment, resulting in more dire consequences than ever before…Defeating all 8 bosses in this linear adventure will reward 1 Demon Hunter pack, containing only Demon Hunter cards from Standard.
      United in Stormwind Rewards Track & Tavern Pass
      When the Rewards Track refreshes when United in Stormwind launches, all players will automatically be granted any unclaimed rewards on both the free track and the Tavern Pass track (if purchased), and a completely new Rewards Track of unlockable loot will take its place.

      The Forged in the Barrens Tavern Pass will expire with the launch of United in Stormwind and a new Tavern Pass will be made available for purchase—offering a host of brand-new cosmetic rewards and XP boosts.

      Learn more about the United in Stormwind Rewards Track and Tavern Pass here.
      As a reminder, Battlegrounds Perks are now available as a standalone purchase, separate from the Tavern Pass.
      New Cosmetic Coins
      Two new Cosmetic Coins are being added with United in Stormwind, the Stormwind coin and the Lordaeron coin. The Stormwind coin is obtainable by completing the first 90 levels of the Rewards Track with the Tavern Pass. The Lordaeron coin is obtainable by collecting 135 unique United in Stormwind cards.

      Keep in mind that United in Stormwind will have a 35-card Mini-Set that will make it easier to reach both the 25 total United in Stormwind Legendary cards for the Archbishop Benedictus Diamond card reward and the 135 total United in Stormwind cards for the Lordaeron Cosmetic Coin. We’ll have more information to share about the United in Stormwind Mini-Set in the coming months.
      Bug Fixes & Game Improvements
      Fixed a bug where Shenanigans would not transform Soul Fragments into Bananas. Fixed a bug where Wicked Stab could be upgraded by cards that temporarily increase mana. Fixed a bug where Shan’do Wildclaw would not lay flat on the board. Fixed a bug where Defender would not play its VO when summoned by Noble Sacrifice. Fixed a bug where golden Soul of the Forest would not summon golden Treants. Fixed a bug where golden Ancestral Spirit would not summon a golden minion. Fixed a bug where golden Grave Rune would not summon golden minions. Fixed a bug where golden Primal Talisman would not summon golden minions. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Y’shaarj’s Battlegrounds Hero Power would not take its newly summoned minion into account when deciding which warband attacked first. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Baron Rivendare was causing visual issues when in a warband with golden Kaboom Bot. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Galakrond’s Greed was missing a tooltip for Discover. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Come One, Come All! Was missing a tooltip for Discover. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Avatar of N’Zoth was missing a tooltip for Deathrattle. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Sprout It Out! Was missing a tooltip for Taunt. Fixed a Battlegrounds bug where Hero Powers for Aranna Starseeker, Infinite Toki, Millhouse Manastorm, Nozdormu, and Tess Greymane were missing a tooltip for Refresh. Fixed a Duels bug where Diamond cards would only be Diamond in appearance for the first game of a run. Fixed a Duels bug where Lone Champion and minions summoned by Gift of Luminance were not buffed by Hold the Line. Updated the description of the Roguish Maneuvers Hero Power in Duels to be more accurate. Fixed a bug with Book of Mercenaries Guff where A Party of Adventurers will cast Against All Odds, even if they have board control. Fixed a bug where one of Lady Katrana Prestor’s emotes was showing incorrect text. Searching “Refund” in the Collection will now populate with cards eligible for a dust refund. Pressing and holding on the Rewards Track page arrows will now flip through the pages quickly. Fixed a bug where if a player disconnected from a ranked match, they’d get a message stating they won their last ranked game upon relogging.  


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