Aleco

Vivid Velen: An In-Depth Guide

22 posts in this topic

It seems I found an issue here, I can't hit the "like" button twice.

This is amazing, not just because of the deck and the work you've put in to make this post with very clear and thorough explanations, but also because I was toying around with something similar including Vivid Nightmare and Twilight's Call but using Clockwork Automaton and Malygos.

This deck looks so damn close to the one I created (only a handful of cards are different) but this one is obviously better designed.

What I like the most about your post is the tips about mistakes. Even though I did not pay as much attention to it as I should have I noticed myself that Shadow Visions isn't as great in the early game as it is later. Thanks for making this part very clear for me :)

Edited by Caldyrvan
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the deck's great and really fun! so far it's kind of an obscure OTK deck so most people are not expecting the horror about to hit them lol. thanks for the awesome and detailed guide!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, thank you for the guide, and congratulations for the idea!

Do you think that this deck could work in wild too (with appropriate changes)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may not have understood something basic, but I have now played four games and clearly lost them all. 

I really like these kinds of decks and I'm certainly not a good player, but I'm a little disappointed now or did I just never have the right cards in my hand?

Here are the four replays, maybe someone will take a look at them.

https://hsreplay.net/replay/QEEXDLgWczv8daKvazCYLi

https://hsreplay.net/replay/PXGTVTTxAFCwGyan3qMCek

https://hsreplay.net/replay/L9Qkc4MBpUbiHQWzzXtqWf

https://hsreplay.net/replay/KsHUvCaau7VfDp3xrXqkPa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, TheSerafan said:

I may not have understood something basic, but I have now played four games and clearly lost them all. 

I really like these kinds of decks and I'm certainly not a good player, but I'm a little disappointed now or did I just never have the right cards in my hand?

Here are the four replays, maybe someone will take a look at them.

 

Game 1: Play your Radiant Elemental on curve.  That way he can soak some damage and contest the board rather than sitting in your hand until it's so late that the mage is ignoring him in order to go face.

Game 2: So you had a rough draw here, but you did yourself no favours playing either.  Again, play the Elemental on curve. Yes it will die, but it's contesting the board and it's taking damage rather than you. Also, you played your spirit lash too early. 2 mana and a card to kill nothing and heal for three is not good value. I think you were trying to set up for possibly top-decking holy nova, but Thalnos is a better card to dream about, so hope for him instead.

Game 3: Do not keep a diamond spellstone against Paladin. You've got a million spells in the deck, and need to get very very unlucky to draw spellstone late enough to really screw you. Maybe keep that PW:S you threw away, but definitely don't keep the Spellstone.  You keep Spellstone against Shaman or Priest, against Paladin you need minions and board clears. Also play your Radiant Elemental when you draw it. It was probably to late to matter, but it can't help you if it's sitting in your hand.

Game 4: Don't keep a Diamond Spellstone against Rogue.  Like, if you've got a Radiant  and PW:S and the coin and Thalnos, then maybe you keep the Spellstone, but otherwise you need to go digging for stuff that will help you not die.  Also, do not coin out Thalnos. A hypothetical Thalnos + Spirit Lash is really strong here, don't throw it away. Finally, on turn 2 you played Loot Hoarder (which the rogue could kill with their weapon) instead of Radiant Elemental (which the rogue couldn't). If you'd played Radiant, you would have been able to clear their board on 3. Instead, the Deckhand went on to deal 8 more damage and you had to play Mass Dispell on 4 rather than say, healing for 2 and playing a Loot Hoarder.  Playing Loot Hoarder instead of Radiant cost you 10 damage.  And when the Rogue played all their cards you were only at -5.

Overall you had some rough luck with the draws, this deck struggles when it doesn't get it's deathrattle minions early, but you need to be less greedy on the mulligan. The Diamond Spellstone isn't going to win you the game if you don't live long enough to use it. And play your Radiant Elementals. They are the best statted minions you have. Treat them like it.

 

Edited by asdsafasdfadsvsdf
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great deck and a great guide. I have only played 4 matches, but man its a fun deck to play. Just thinking about my opponents face when i do 40 hp of dmg in a turn makes me giggle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, asdsafasdfadsvsdf said:

Overall you had some rough luck with the draws, this deck struggles when it doesn't get it's deathrattle minions early, but you need to be less greedy on the mulligan. The Diamond Spellstone isn't going to win you the game if you don't live long enough to use it. And play your Radiant Elementals. They are the best statted minions you have. Treat them like it.

 

Thank you for your advice. I'll check the replays again. As I said, I like such decks a lot, but somehow I really felt "destroyed". But apparently there are still some things to improve, which I simply did not recognize.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Aleco is a really good player but he must also been damn lucky with card draw in his favor. The deck has a good chance of drawing bad and that very often. And that sucks especially when your opponent plays straight on curve.while still managing their resources well and not committing too much to the board.

Even though I like the deck, the games go on too long. After a few games, even with wins it feels like I wasted my time just to get the 2 seconds of glory during the OTK :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/18/2018 at 7:30 AM, Aleco said:

You can watch the whole game right here. It was played against Sonecarox (whose name I recognized from the Coffin Crasher card reveal) while he was streaming, so I was able to find the VOD on Twitch after the game was over. If anyone reading this speaks Brazilian, I'd love to hear what he had to say about the game!

Brazillian doesn't exist, he speaks Portuguese :) luckily I can help with that!

He's mostly talking Summoner Wars early on (game on window in bottom left) and only starts actually talking about the game when he topdecks Aluneth just in time to stay in the game and cheers for that moment!

Then he comments when shit happens for Aleco: "Geez he just burned Prophet Velen!" and a bit later "This is going to be a good day!".

Shortly afterwards you turn the game with that huge spirit lash: "Damn he just gained a ton of life, WOW". And "Can't believe" just before he concedes. He actually swears at you after haha :D then moves on to next game and that's all folks, GG!

Edited by Seksi
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Played 10 matches with this deck today, really enjoyed it. Went 7-3 at rank 5 and still learning. Two of the games that I lost, I couldn't quite stabilize against aggro, but there were other games against aggro where it felt like it was just impossible to lose, I think on the whole the MU is good. One game I bricked pretty hard. I'm not sure if I was particularly lucky, but the deck didn't feel like it drew badly - to me it felt like it had plenty of ways to dig and stall. 

If someone's having problems with the deck I would suggest reading through Aleco's post again and try to keep in your head the matchups and mulligan advice. I would have gone 3-7 instead of 7-3 if I hadn't paid attention to the mulligan decisions. 

The advice relating to Shadow Visions was particularly good. From playing Raza priest I was somewhat comfortable with not playing Visions on 2, but this deck really seems to want to hold it. I was often casting it with ~7 cards left in deck for extra mind blasts or Vivid Nightmares. As someone who was used to playing Raza OTK decks and not Inner Fire decks, it wasn't intuitive for me to run out Radiant Elemental on curve either, but for this deck it's a plus if it dies (although in most of my games I held the second copy once I drew it for the combo turn). 

Anyways, I'm not a stellar player and my sample size was small, but those were my initial observations. Oh, and it feels really bad to play Holy Nova in 2018 but in a world of Paladins it seems like a necessary evil. 

Another bonus was that I only had to craft the Visions, since I already had everything else from playing every broken priest archetype from the past 3 or so metas. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really like the concept of this deck, but i feel it really struggles against the card draw. like if you dont get valen until the end the whole thing falls apart. When it works, it feels great, but when it doesnt you can feel helpless. Went a few games where I didnt draw a single minion by turn 6 which just left me sol against the ramp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's certainly a challenging deck and important things to point out (imo) are:

  • Be patient
  • Don't over react
  • Get used to a board state that looks bad for you
    • and be patient
    • and don't over react :D
  • Don't play this deck when you are in a hurry/short on time.
Edited by Caldyrvan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 18/04/2018 at 9:44 PM, TheSerafan said:

I may not have understood something basic, but I have now played four games and clearly lost them all. 

Combo decks take a while to get the hang of. I’ve played a lot of wild combo malygos druid in the last few months. The first few days I played it I was losing like crazy, and even after a couple of weeks I was still seeing situations where I would or might have won had I made a different choice (or not roped). But that’s the beauty of a good deck imo, if most of the games you’re losing are down to your mistakes, once you eliminate those mistakes you’re going to be doing great. And, whilst I dare say I still make some mistakes, they’re much rarer and I’ve climbed very near the top of Legend with it on a few occasions.

I thought I’d give Vivid Velen a go this afternoon.... I’m currently 1-9 with it hehe. A lot of that stat line was down to me making mistakes - after a while you know the combo calculations by heart whereas right now I’m often spending most of my turn on key decisions doing sums rather than strategy. Does seem a bit vulnerable to aggro/tempo though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/19/2018 at 11:52 PM, Whisla said:

I really like the concept of this deck, but i feel it really struggles against the card draw. like if you dont get valen until the end the whole thing falls apart. When it works, it feels great, but when it doesnt you can feel helpless. Went a few games where I didnt draw a single minion by turn 6 which just left me sol against the ramp.

pretty much this.  If velen bottom of deck whole thing falls apart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, Aleco made it pretty high Legend with it so clearly it can work, but I’m still struggling with it too. The only matchup (that I’m encountering) that I’m confident in really is paladins. I can’t replicate Aleco’s results against druid at all, think I’ve lost every game. It seems very hard to ever get the velen down because they can just keep pressuring you, and at a pinch when you do armour up like crazy and hope you can’t get enough damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same here, even though I had a few very nice moments with this deck, they have been too few.

I really tried to fully concentrate on the games, think hard about my mulligans and every turn before I chose what I do but my win rate got worse and worse. Maybe I am just too dumb to play it correctly, who knows, but the time it consumes in comparison to the rewards is too low. Too point out reasons I lost, and I see nothing I could do about that by "playing better":

  • Simply couldn't manage to get the combo pieces.
  • Got the combo but no (not enough) removal to stay alive.
  • Got my deathrattle minions but no Twilight's Call or the other way around, or had to play a Call for just one deathrattle to be returned which feels really awkward.
Edited by Caldyrvan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ill do a follow up now that iv played maybe 50+ games with this deck.

 

Being patient is an understatement. Where this deck shines is when you know how close your enemy is to killing you then just stopping it. You have got to keep yourself from burning cards bc your hand size gets too big but the deck itself has a lot of ways to get your combo without actually drawing all the cards.

I learned that unless you really have to get something else out, Shadow reaper is almost always the right play. It will drastically increase you board clear and could even put you in kill range without needing the full combo.

i still really like it, but its really easy to lose against an aggro deck if you dont get a semi decent draw.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried this deck for weeks now and unfortunately I can assure it's plainly unplayable. Maybe the meta shifted, but it has almost 0% winrate against more than 90% of the decks out there and it's still pretty hard against the decks it's supposed to counter.

Odd paladins have just disappeared form the meta and even paladin is an insta concede, I'm seeing less and less warlocks, warriors and druids. Right now big spell mage is the only comfortable matchup. The meta has become way too much aggressive for a deck with only 4 minions and that 4 games out of 5 requires you to draw at least 27 cards to win.

It's very very fun to use, but it just can't be played in ranked. I can bet that next season even OP won't make it to legend with this deck only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I've been playing it almost none stop now and I really at a stale mate lol.

Paladins, warlock and shamans are no problem at all, priests and druids usually turn out pretty great too.

I think the most problems I have is witch aggro secret mage, odd hunter and odd rogue.

To summarise:

slow decks, low health minion decks = easy

aggro spell decks = rough

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Zadina
      Many players - initially from Korea, but then from all regions - have received a survey about Hearthstone and the latest expansions. One of the questions of the survey asks players how likely they would be to to play the card game within the next 30 days, if there were no Blizzard sponsored tournaments.
      The question has made a lot of people nervous, given that Heroes of the Storm esports were recently axed and the game will go in maintenance mode in the near future. The climate is already heavy with the latest WoW expansion not being received that greatly and all the rumours about Activision meddling into Blizzard. The recent news about two Activision Blizzards CFOs leaving the company and Bungie (the developer of Destiny 2) jumping ship from Activision only managed to spark the rumours that things aren't going that well for Blizzard. Hearthstone also saw its game director and public face, Ben Brode, leave this year - along with other notable Hearthstone devs.
      Significant changed to the structure of the Hearthstone Championship Tour were announced less than two months ago, so Hearthstone esports have a future for 2019 at least. Of course, the conspiracy lovers immediately pointed out that HotS devs promised that HGC would continue in 2019, only to announce its cancellation less than a month afterwards.

      The full survey was shared on Reddit by u/HelixFossil89.
      It is important to put this matter into perspective without panicking. First of all, this was a single question in a 35-question survey about the game in general and Rastakhan's Rumble in particular. The conductors of the survey obviously want to get the general opinion of their playerbase on major issues. Just because they asked this particular question, it doesn't necessarily mean they are considering axing Hearthstone esports.
      Second, there is no indication that Hearthstone isn't doing well. Sure, it may have lost some players but it probably still is Blizzard's second best earner. Its competition has definitely not managed to thwart it and the latest balance changes - while they weren't exactly successful in creating a healthy meta - were received with excitement and positivity by most of the community.
      On the other hand, Blizzard has spent quite a lot of money on the Hearthstone professional scene and perhaps there is a limit of how much they can keep throwing at it. There is also the matter that even though Hearthstone has been successful as an esport, it has managed that without being taken totally seriously - even by its own players. The 2019 plans also seem a bit vague-ish, although it should be noted that the January qualifiers are well underway.
    • By Zadina
      This brand new Tavern Brawl challenges you to build a deck with cards from 2 Wild expansions and 2 Standard ones.
      Specifically, you will need to construct a deck using only cards from Goblins vs Gnomes, The Grand Tournament, The Witchwood and The Boomsday Project. We remind you that this month is dedicated to Wild mode with a new Wild Bundle and thematic Tavern Brawls being available.
      Newer players or players that don't have a lot of Wild cards in their collection can pick a Class and a single card and the game will autofill a deck for them with cards they don't have!
      If you don't have cards from GvG and TGT, but still want to make your own deck, Baku the Mooneater and/or Genn Greymane are your best bets. Odd Rogue and Odd Paladin are performing well and Even Shaman is also a decent choice.
      If you have all the cards needed, then it's a great opportunity to show off your Mech power. Mech Hunter and Mech Paladin are absolute beasts, with the Mechs from GvG and The Boomsday Project synergising perfectly.
      This is a very interesting Tavern Brawl, since it creates a whole new meta on its own and it satisfies the players who are asking for yearly/monthly rotations with a specific amount of random sets from all of Hearthstone's history. Sometimes, Tavern Brawls foreshadow future games modes so perhaps this is a small hint on something different being worked on!
    • By Starym
      Here comes another update, once again focusing on Arena balance as classes get the appearance rates of cards tweaked so everyone has a comparable win rate. We're seeing Hunters, Rogues and Warriors getting their rates nerfed, while Druids, Mages, Paladins, Shamans and Warlocks get theirs buffed. This is coming after the more comprehensive update last month that saw some bigger Arena changes, including the removal of Mind Control Tech.

      We're also getting changes to Rumble Run in this update, featuring better synergy for your shrine with new cards picked, boss deck adjustments and the ability to re-pick the shrine you lost with. Check out the full details below:
      January 10 (source)
      This Hearthstone update mixes Rumble Run up for a refreshing new change, while also bringing in some updates to Arena buckets together with the cessation of December 2018’s dust refund. Read on for details!
      Arena Updates
      Following our Arena update last December, we have adjusted the appearance rate of each individual card available in Arena to ensure the overall win-rate of each class remains as close as possible to our ideal of 50%.
      Hunter, Rogue, and Warrior have had the average quality of their Arena picks lowered. Druid, Mage, Paladin, Priest, Shaman, and Warlock have had the average quality of their Arena picks raised. December Update
      The dust refunds that were available following our last update in December 2018 are no longer available as of this post.
      Rumble Run Changes
      Champions, rumblers, and trolls of all sizes! We’ve watched you spend a month punching faces in the Rumble Run, and we think there’s room for some changes based on how things have gone. Here’s what’s new with the Rumble Run.
      Weighted Card Rewards We’ve increased the possibility of synergistic cards for your shrine appearing more often. One of our primary goals with this mode was to showcase the nine troll champions and have you really get to know them. We wanted you to “live the dream” of fighting in the Gurubashi Arena, and to do so, we had to make sure that each Run had its own strong theme. Adjusting the card bucket offerings for decks and re-adding bonus buckets will help strengthen that experience.
      Boss Deck Adjustments One of our design goals with the Rumble Run was to provide huge, overpowered combat. Balancing at such a high power level is a challenge. When it works, it works great. You get epic, monumental combat against overwhelming odds. But when it doesn’t work, it feels random and swingy – like when the AI pulls an overwhelming combo. And since no one likes being repeatedly hit in the face with a club, we’ve pruned some of the power from the boss decks so that your Runs will play out more moderately. We have a lot of data about which bosses have the biggest body counts, and we’ve used that to target the worst offenders. Rumble Runs are now a little easier, but more importantly, they’ll feel a little more fair.
      Shrine Selection Changes In early builds of the Rumble Run, we allowed players to pick a class and shrine before playing. What we found was that playtesters immediately picked their favorite class, gravitated to a certain shrine, and played that shrine repeatedly.
      We had wanted to encourage players to try different shrines, especially to experiment with stuff they normally wouldn’t, so we put the current random shrine drafting in place. While that helped achieve our initial goal, it removed that feeling of mastery – the ability to choose a shrine and play with it until you feel you’ve mastered it or exhausted its possibilities.
      So we want to bring that back. With this update, whenever you lose, you can expect to always be offered the shrine you just lost with. The shrine that the boss used to beat you in your last run will also be offered, per the status quo.
      Some Final Rumble Ruminations
      We always prefer to experiment, try extreme ideas, and get feedback rather than play it safe. In true troll fashion, we went big with the Rumble Run and tried some different ideas to give this expansion a unique feel and to capture the thrill of stepping into an arena against known opponents for some superpowered brutality. It’s wallop or be walloped in there, for better or for worse.
      One of the things we experimented with—and heard great feedback on—was about the earlier pack rewards for the Rumble Run. Previous Hearthstone missions awarded packs via quests for completing content. For The Boomsday Project, we gave packs out without a quest to celebrate the launch of the expansion’s missions. This time around, we front-loaded the rewards and gave players three extra packs on launch day instead of during the Rumble Run. We felt that packs might be more interesting to people during the initial weeks of the expansion.
      As many of you have pointed out, this decision just made the missions feel especially un-rewarding. It’s always more gratifying to earn packs by competing a quest, rather than just being given them. To this end, we’re adding the new quest described above, and going forward, we’ll keep this feedback in mind for the launch of new single-player content.
      We had a ton of fun making mode and really appreciate the time that many of you took to write out thoughtful feedback. Everything we learn helps make future content better.
      And now, it’s back to the Rumble Run!
    • By Zadina
      This January is dedicated to the Wild format: apart from the Wild Open qualifiers taking place this month, you can now get a card Bundle with packs from previous expansions that are not usually available.
      The Wild Bundle contains 10 packs from each of the following expansions, that have rotated out of Standard: Goblins vs Gnomes, The Grand Tournament, Whispers of the Old Gods and Mean Streets of Gadgetzan. The Bundle costs 25 Euros or 25 USD.
      If you are interested in the Wild format - or perhaps you even want to complete in it, the Wild Open qualifiers will be taking place this January.
      Lastly, most Tavern Brawls are in Wild and this will continue being the case throughout this month.
    • By Stan
      It's been a while since we last heard of Ben Brode who left Blizzard in April 2018 to form the Second Dinner game development studio. In the latest update, we learn that Brode along with former Hearthstone developers are currently working on a Marvel game and the studio received $30 million in funding from Netease in China.
      Netease is currently co-developing Diablo: Immortal with Activision Blizzard. Here's the latest press release posted on the Second Dinner website. The company now has enough funds to expand and grow beyond its five co-founders.
      They also released a video talking about exciting news in the new office.