Oxygen

Garrosh Meta Tier List (August 2017)

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We present our ninth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier List for the Garrosh patch of August 2017.

Our ninth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier List for the month of August 2017 is here!

 

Welcome to Icy Veins's Meta Tier List for the Garrosh patch. The goal if of this list is to try and detail game's current metagame state. The prime goal of such lists is to inform players regarding popular and trending team composition drafting strategies (i.e. the drafting metagame). Although tier listings are generally the product of balance, many factors come into play when discussing the relative perceived strengths of heroes, including player regions, maps, play style, skill level, and, of course, personal perception. As such, any tier list—including this very one—should never be interpreted as gospel, but rather, as a guide to better grasp what to expect with regards to typical drafting experiences. One useful application of such lists is to allow you know which heroes to look out for in terms of practice and counterplay, ultimately improving your knowledge of the game.

 

Using the list

As stated above, tier lists are easy to mistake for gospel. As new strategies are discovered and experimented with, so changes the perception of the relative strengths of each hero. Tier lists still prove to be useful as a snapshot of player expectations in terms of drafting. Although it is generally considered preferable to focus on high tier heroes (Prime and Core tiers), it is important to note that Heroes of the Storm's wild character and map designs make it so that any given hero's tier position is prone to fluctuate depending on the situation at hand.

One classic example of such is that of Kerrigan on the Infernal Shrines map. Although we currently judge her to be a mid-tier hero, her drafting priority shoots up to first-pick or first-ban material on this specific map due to the nature of its objective. Certain heroes also synergise so well with each other that the sole fact of having the opportunity of drafting them together is generally enough to increase their potential. Tassadar and Tracer, for instance, are generally nightmarish to deal with for many. There are too many examples of these interactions to reasonably produce here, but we invite you to consult our guides to know exactly where and when each hero shines. The guides have been linked in the lists below for your convenience - just click any of the hero names to access them.

A  next to a hero's name means its tier list position has increased since the previous month whereas a  means just the opposite. Additionally, a + or - sign indicates short-to-medium term predictions (which is to say, about a month) for tier increase(s) or decrease(s), respectively. These are often updated after significant balance patches and/or when clear trends are emerging.

If you're newer to the game, also consider visiting our glossary for a comprehensive list of discrete Heroes of the Storm terms.

 

Prime Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Anub'arak  Genji Uther -
Stitches Greymane Tassadar  
  Malthael    

Prime tier heroes are considered to be extremely strong in all situations, and show no obvious weakness. They are very often banned or picked right away, as they generally dictate the pace of most matches.

 

Core Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Arthas Falstad Auriel Nazeebo
Dehaka Gul'dan- Rehgar Sylvanas
Diablo+ Li-Ming Stukov Xul
E.T.C. The Butcher    
Garrosh (new!) Valla    
Sonya Zeratul    
Varian (Tank)      
       
       

Core tier heroes are strong in a wide variety of situations and have few counter-picking possibility. They should form the core of your team, and be picked after Prime Tier heroes have been distributed.

 

Viable Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Artanis Alarak Brightwing Abathur
Chen Cassia Kharazim Azmodan
D.Va Chromie Li Li Zagara+
Johanna Jaina Lt. Morales Probius
Leoric Kael'thas Lúcio  
Muradin Lunara Malfurion  
Tyrael Ragnaros Tyrande  
Zarya Samuro    
  Thrall    
  Tracer    
  Varian (Damage)-    
  Zul'jin    
       

Viable tier heroes are generally well-rounded that have either fallen out of favour, or, inversely, are on the rise in popularity, due to the current Prime tier contenders.

 

Niche Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Cho'gall Cho'gall - Gazlowe
Rexxar Illidan   Medivh
  Kerrigan   Murky
  Nova   Sgt. Hammer
  Raynor    
  Valeera    
  Tychus    

Niche tier heroes have niche application on certain maps or for certain team compositions. They are generally picked to "round out" your team composition when your team composition is missing out on key components, such as a "jungler" (mercenary camps), a solo laner, or solid waveclear.

 

Bottom Tier

The Lost Vikings

Bottom tier Heroes are deemed to be either considerably weaker than the majority of other Heroes, or much more challenging to play properly. Although they may situationally shine, these Heroes are generally avoided by most players.

 

Metagame assessment

Greetings. Regulars may have noticed that the changes featured in this month's list have been more aggressive than usual. In essence, I feel like a clear metagame is finally begin to emerge after a slew of important changes, making it easier for me to pinpoint notable trends. And so, the result is a volatile tier list that should be extremely stable next month. Shall we begin?

I like Garrosh quite a bit, and I can't help but feel that the combined novelty and high skill cap skew his win rates towards the bottom of the roster. Case in point: his Master level win rates are nearly 12% higher than his Bronze level win rates. This is a case of Medivh all over again; however, whereas both Garrosh and Medivh did start at 30-something-percent win rates, Garrosh has been steadily climbing over the week. Both Diablo and Stitches are currently very popular picks, and Garrosh provides similar utility through his Groundbreaker + Wrecking Ball combo. Talents to watch out for are undoubtedly Warbreaker (reduced cooldown on Groundbreaker, level 1) and Intimidation (40% reduced attack speed on targets hit by Groundbreaker, level 7), which allow Garrosh to neuter basic attack reliant heroes much earlier than other heroes can. Into the Fray (can use Wrecking Ball on allies once every 30 seconds, level 7) is also an interesting one as it gives Garrosh his own version of CleanseCleanse and  the ability to say 'hey, you're mispositioned, stop it', which should come in handy whenever an ally is, well, not standing where they should be. It also breaks Lamb to the SlaughterLamb to the Slaughter on top of a few other nasty heroic abilities, which is great.

Stitches has finally ascended to godhood, and although I was slow to give him a seat in the core tier, repeated high level hero league bans and a high amount of tournament play speak for themselves. As stated last month, the SlamSlam build remains an easy way of topping the damage charts all while being difficult to kill. GorgeGorge has also seen an upsurge in popularity, and particularly on maps where combat tends to happen close by fortifications, such as Dragon Shire, Tomb of the Spider Queen, Towers of Doom, et cetera. Couple this with Falstad's Mighty GustMighty Gust, and you have a game winning combo that isn't all that difficult to pull off.

I don't have much to say about Greymane that isn't self-obvious; Cursed BulletCursed Bullet is a great choice in a meta where healthy tanks are popular, though Go for the ThroatGo for the Throat is also re-emerging for blowup team compositions, thanks to its reliable damage and gap closing feature, on top of its ability to reset.

To shoehorn last month's tier list again, I made a snarky comment about Tassadar always being either too strong or too weak. Right now, he enables two borderline heroes–Illidan and Tracer–on top of providing flexible heroic ability choices for both more defensive and blowout team compositions. His versatility just makes him never feel like a bad pick, and OracleOracle keeps the Zeratuls at bay as a bonus.

E.T.C. is this month's surprise as players sift through forgotten heroes to solo tank, provide potential mapwide mobility through Stage DiveStage Dive, and just generally provide reliable crowd control. You'll note a sore lack of interruption from a lot of high tier picks as well, making Mosh PitMosh Pit about as good as it'll get.

We haven't seen The Butcher be more than a one trick for nearly two years now, but the brute is back in force, thanks for buffs several players have misinterpreted as nerfs. I suspect, however, that some of his newfound success may be due to players having some difficulty adapting to his new gank-heavy playstyle and generally counterpicking him. Shall the Brightwings, Cassias, and Li Lis of the world rise up to the challenge?

Xul has continued to perform well, and although he is the second least popular core tier hero (right behind Zeratul), he will keep on being effective on Blackheart's Bay, Dragon Shire, Gardens of Terror, Infernal Shrines, and Towers of Doom simply due to the importance of having a strong split pusher on these maps. Just make sure you go for Skeletal MagesSkeletal Mages, which tend to block a lot of those abilities strong tanks currently rely upon to get picks, on top of being generally disruptive.

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2 hours ago, Yridaa said:

A shame, should have used this picture instead!

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That's some weird fetish you got there bro :D

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1 hour ago, Dejo93 said:

That's some weird fetish you got there bro :D

Yeah man. Seriously. They should have used this instead:

d4B4KGEy3ZUEWxgF5NvyYhqna4JV17OTgApWdoYZZHA.jpg

Edited by Valhalen
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Imo one of the most accurate tierlists, really decent, would disagree on Butcher's tier but other than that looks pretty good. Well done Oxy. :)

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29 minutes ago, BrightwingMain said:

Imo one of the most accurate tierlists, really decent, would disagree on Butcher's tier but other than that looks pretty good. Well done Oxy. :)

I don't know, man. The Butcher is much more scary now. The changes to Fresh MeatFresh Meat makes a lot easier to snowball earlier in the match. With the requirement being 200, and each Hero dropping whooping 25 meat, it takes merely 8 Hero Takedowns to complete the quest; given that you will be collecting meat from minions at the same time, it should be even faster. If you're facing Murky, The Lost Vikings or D.Va (since the MEKA drops meat if you destroy it), it is even faster.

So I agree with The Butcher being on Core Tier, because in the Double Tank + Double Healer metagame he can be become unstoppable. I was in a match where the opposing team had a Butcher that completed his quest before level 10; we were stomped hard.

Edited by Valhalen
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Wrecking ball picture of Garrosh TOTALLY made my day, thank you! :D Fairy Garrosh good too! :P

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1 hour ago, Valhalen said:

I don't know, man. The Butcher is much more scary now. The changes to Fresh MeatFresh Meat makes a lot easier to snowball earlier in the match. With the requirement being 200, and each Hero dropping whooping 25 meat, it takes merely 8 Hero Takedowns to complete the quest; given that you will be collecting meat from minions at the same time, it should be even faster. If you're facing Murky, The Lost Vikings or D.Va (since the MEKA drops meat if you destroy it), it is even faster.

So I agree with The Butcher being on Core Tier, because in the Double Tank + Double Healer metagame he can be become unstoppable. I was in a match where the opposing team had a Butcher that completed his quest before level 10; we were stomped hard.

I've just had three games in a row with it completed by 4 minutes into the game. These games are nearly impossible to lose because after a certain damage threshold, you begin to kill healers and other assassins in a Ruthless OnslaughtRuthless Onslaught + basic attack +  HamstringHamstring + basic attack x 2, which just leads to more meat, a bigger experience disparity, very quick mercenaries and sieging, and, of course, opponents that become afraid to poke their head out. With Lamb to the SlaughterLamb to the Slaughter against the healer, cleanse becomes a non issue. I feel like most players don't know what they're doing against him, and as him, really. He really promotes selective aggressivity, both from the attacker and the defender perspective; since he defines games he is in, you just can't afford to not watch for Butcher's BrandButcher's Brand and its cooldown. I get to kill a damage dealer or healer only to turn onto a tank with Brand just to fully heal way too often.

 

Also, thanks for totally derailing the thread!

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Tassadar truly was one of the most underappreciated support heroes, as although anyone would be very quick to correct me, he can be a reliable solo healer. OracleOracle, when timed effectively, can basically win a team fight or at least surprise you're enemy and get a few good kills in. He also provides outstanding damage for a support while giving health through his lifesteal granting shields. In most situations, I prefer Tassadar heavily over Uther, as Tassadar can do so much more than just heal and tank.

Greymane and Stitches have both had a varied history of ups and downs, but I'm glad to see that they have taken their place in the current metagame without being too overpowered. GorgeGorge is just about the most stupidly fun ult in the whole game and Greymane's tactic of withering down an opponent and then "going for the throat" has also always been super fun, but for the longest time he just wasn't viable, when the meta was in the era of double tanks.

Not sure about Genji still being in the top tier, but maybe that's just me. Anyone else interested why the only supports in the top tier are burst healers/shielders and all the damage dealers are burst damage dealers?

Edited by Ilonpilaaja

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7 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

I've just had three games in a row with it completed by 4 minutes into the game. These games are nearly impossible to lose because after a certain damage threshold, you begin to kill healers and other assassins in a Ruthless OnslaughtRuthless Onslaught + basic attack +  HamstringHamstring + basic attack x 2, which just leads to more meat, a bigger experience disparity, very quick mercenaries and sieging, and, of course, opponents that become afraid to poke their head out. With Lamb to the SlaughterLamb to the Slaughter against the healer, cleanse becomes a non issue. I feel like most players don't know what they're doing against him, and as him, really. He really promotes selective aggressivity, both from the attacker and the defender perspective; since he defines games he is in, you just can't afford to not watch for Butcher's BrandButcher's Brand and its cooldown. I get to kill a damage dealer or healer only to turn onto a tank with Brand just to fully heal way too often.

 

Also, thanks for totally derailing the thread!

Yeah, exactly the point. It is easy to snowball as soon you complete the quest. I love this change because it makes The Butcher feel more rewarding to play (as in you can get more meat per takedown), and really captures the fantasy aspect of him being threatening (specially for old-schoolers who played the original Diablo).

I think this put him in a really good spot, but I feel that Blizzard being Blizzard will nerf the meat gain a bit, given the ammount of whinning we will see in the Official Forums (people there disgust me, they complain about everything).

But I think it is what you said: most players don't know how to fight him or use him properly. The classic newbie Butcher will use Ruthless Onslaught as soon as possible, which will often lead to him getting overwhelmed (most players don't know that you can cancel the charge, also).

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2 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

I think this put him in a really good spot, but I feel that Blizzard being Blizzard will nerf the meat gain a bit, given the ammount of whinning we will see in the Official Forums (people there disgust me, they complain about everything)..

That is kinda what they're supposed to do, since game statistics alone can't really tell much about the balance of the game to the dev team, so we need the whiny imbeciles to do the whining, lest we end up in a meta where specialists rule the Earth and the assassins and tanks are left to lick their boots.

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6 minutes ago, Ilonpilaaja said:

Tassadar truly was one of the most underappreciated support heroes, as although anyone would be very quick to correct me, he can be a reliable solo healer. (...) Tassadar can do so much more than just heal and tank.

Not sure about Genji still being in the top tier, but maybe that's just me. Anyone else interested why the only supports in the top tier are burst healers/shielders and all the damage dealers are burst damage dealers?

I hardly think Tassadar can outheal Uther, or any healer, actually. He can, however, provide massive self-sustain to Basic Attackers, since Plasma ShieldPlasma Shield heals based on basic attack damage (therefore The Butcher can become even more sturdy). But Tassadar is indeed a force to be feared given his unmatched utility and how slippery he is for a Support thanks to Dimensional ShiftDimensional Shift. I don't think he should be used to solo heal, because that forces him to hinder his own true potential; I feel he is much better as a secondary Support so he can focus on more offensive talents.

About Genji, he still is a threat to any squishy Mage, as he can easily cause disruption by charging with Swift StrikeSwift Strike and to take down those fleeing.

Regarding your question about Top Tier Supports, I'd say you answered your own question: you combat burst damage with burst healing. The sustained meta has been a bit low lately because there is a lot of ways to simply outheal it with little effort (which is why Lunara is rarely seen anymore).

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2 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

I hardly think Tassadar can outheal Uther, or any healer, actually. He can, however, provide massive self-sustain to Basic Attackers, since Plasma ShieldPlasma Shield heals based on basic attack damage (therefore The Butcher can become even more sturdy). But Tassadar is indeed a force to be feared given his unmatched utility and how slippery he is for a Support thanks to Dimensional ShiftDimensional Shift. I don't think he should be used to solo heal, because that forces him to hinder his own true potential; I feel he is much better as a secondary Support so he can focus on more offensive talents.

In my opinion, a healer with utility is a more powerful healer than one who can simply just heal his problems away. I despise playing as Uther, since it mainly consists of you waiting for the perfect opportunity to heal or assist your team and nothing else.

2 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

About Genji, he still is a threat to any squishy Mage, as he can easily cause disruption by charging with Swift StrikeSwift Strike and to take down those fleeing.

I'm seeing less and less Genjis nowadays, which made my primitive mind make the assumption that "Less Genjis = Not a good character anymore."

Now that Ol' Butch is back in the ring, it seems that all the other chasers are in the big leagues, except for Illidan and maybe Kerrigan and Valeera. I think it's time for the old demon hunter to come back from Azeroth and back in to the Nexus, at least that's what I think.

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I was expecting Johanna to get put down a tier; she's as tanky as they come, but she only thrives when she's able to front line and consequently disrupt it, as well as being a reasonable Butcher answer. I only tend to pick her on Spiders these days; not enough tools in her kit to deal with those opportunistic dive and grabs on the rest of my team! 

If anyone is struggling to deal with Stitches, I would recommend Leoric as an answer to him in a double warrior comp, and especially if you need a solo laner. He's a low maintenance hero and isn't complicated to play by any standard. Not only is he able to directly trade with Stitches as long as you land consistent Drain Hopes and hold his own, he is able to save people from that Hook & Gorge combo by using Entomb to block your own team mate on the return, or positioning it at the gates on the maps that Oxygen mentioned such as Dragon Shire, stopping Stitches from Gorging them or taking them into towers; just remember to cancel the wall afterwards! He's also able to self cleanse with Wraith Walk, so you can ensure you're in a position for those kinds of denies while getting away yourself. Just avoid picking him if you feel like you're going to get kited for days :) 

Edited by Plergoth
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7 minutes ago, Ilonpilaaja said:

In my opinion, a healer with utility is a more powerful healer than one who can simply just heal his problems away. I despise playing as Uther, since it mainly consists of you waiting for the perfect opportunity to heal or assist your team and nothing else.

Well, Uther is designed to be the most basic type of straightforward Support, haha. But I think it is relative, depending on the matchup you need more heal burst than utility. I don't think either character is better than the other, if anything, I think Tassadar and Uther are WONDERFUL in the same team.

8 minutes ago, Ilonpilaaja said:

I'm seeing less and less Genjis nowadays, which made my primitive mind make the assumption that "Less Genjis = Not a good character anymore."

If that was the case than half of the Heroes are not good characters. You see less Genji because the hype died a bit. Just like with every single new Hero. It's been ages since I've seen other Stukovs (other than myself), but that doesn't make less of a good character (I still heal thrice as the opposing team Healer whenever I go with Stukov).

But again, the hype factor plays a huge role in the Heroes' popularity. Genji was overplayed for a long time because of him being Genji; just like the Illidan overplay back in the Alpha/Beta.

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41 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

Yeah, exactly the point. It is easy to snowball as soon you complete the quest. I love this change because it makes The Butcher feel more rewarding to play (as in you can get more meat per takedown), and really captures the fantasy aspect of him being threatening (specially for old-schoolers who played the original Diablo).

I think this put him in a really good spot, but I feel that Blizzard being Blizzard will nerf the meat gain a bit, given the ammount of whinning we will see in the Official Forums (people there disgust me, they complain about everything).

But I think it is what you said: most players don't know how to fight him or use him properly. The classic newbie Butcher will use Ruthless Onslaught as soon as possible, which will often lead to him getting overwhelmed (most players don't know that you can cancel the charge, also).

It's definitely more in line with the fantasy. Don't you love that charge sound?

31 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

I hardly think Tassadar can outheal Uther, or any healer, actually. He can, however, provide massive self-sustain to Basic Attackers, since Plasma ShieldPlasma Shield heals based on basic attack damage (therefore The Butcher can become even more sturdy). But Tassadar is indeed a force to be feared given his unmatched utility and how slippery he is for a Support thanks to Dimensional ShiftDimensional Shift. I don't think he should be used to solo heal, because that forces him to hinder his own true potential; I feel he is much better as a secondary Support so he can focus on more offensive talents.

About Genji, he still is a threat to any squishy Mage, as he can easily cause disruption by charging with Swift StrikeSwift Strike and to take down those fleeing.

Regarding your question about Top Tier Supports, I'd say you answered your own question: you combat burst damage with burst healing. The sustained meta has been a bit low lately because there is a lot of ways to simply outheal it with little effort (which is why Lunara is rarely seen anymore).

I don't think I could have said better. Still, Lunara has her place in what I call the holy ranged damage dealer trinity: Greymane, Lunara, Valla. Look at any tournament stats; the team that doesn't get one of these is the one that loses like 85% of the time. Greymane is your burst guy; Lunara is sustained aoe damage, and Valla is sustained single-target damage. Lunara isn't really preferred right now due to how blowouty the meta is, and due to how double healers tend to counter her.

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21 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

It's definitely more in line with the fantasy. Don't you love that charge sound?

Every night... I hear it... And I can never escape it... Never hide... It'll haunt me for the rest of my days...

*DING*

FRESH MEAT!!

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11 minutes ago, Ilonpilaaja said:

Every night... I hear it... And I can never escape it... Never hide... It'll haunt me for the rest of my days...

*DING*

FRESH MEAT!!

Everything about Ruthless OnslaughtRuthless Onslaught feels so good, the roar, the "jumpscare" low-pitch sound, The Butcher's stomping sounds. It is awesome and scary. Of all Heroes in this game, I'd say The Butcher captures completely the essence of the character. All we need now is a Diablo I skin for him, similar to the one we got for the anniversary event.

Edited by Valhalen
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20 hours ago, Valhalen said:

I don't know, man. The Butcher is much more scary now. The changes to Fresh MeatFresh Meat makes a lot easier to snowball earlier in the match. With the requirement being 200, and each Hero dropping whooping 25 meat, it takes merely 8 Hero Takedowns to complete the quest; given that you will be collecting meat from minions at the same time, it should be even faster. If you're facing Murky, The Lost Vikings or D.Va (since the MEKA drops meat if you destroy it), it is even faster.

So I agree with The Butcher being on Core Tier, because in the Double Tank + Double Healer metagame he can be become unstoppable. I was in a match where the opposing team had a Butcher that completed his quest before level 10; we were stomped hard.

Probably you are right in hero league. My disgust towards butcher changes probably comes from the fact that now any chances of Butcher being useful in coordinated play are butchered (pun intended) because how much more win more new Butcher is as you have to win earlygame teamfights with a BUTCHER COMP even tho Butcher is famous for being super weak early game. It seriously triggers me because Butcher was ALREADY a noob stomper hero which saw no competitive play whatsover and now they just make Butcher even more problematic at low ranks where people uncoordinately flail around and make him complete rubbish in coordinated environment even tho if they had a rework in mind, it should with all logic be done the other way round, reduce his stompyness in low ranks and make him actually viable in coordinated environment. I'm just triggered Blizzard messed up.

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3 hours ago, BrightwingMain said:

My disgust towards butcher changes probably comes from the fact that now any chances of Butcher being useful in coordinated play are butchered (pun intended) because how much more win more new Butcher is as you have to win earlygame teamfights with a BUTCHER COMP even tho Butcher is famous for being super weak early game.

Well, The Butcher has always been like that from the start. He requires a team to be built around him. He is super easy to take down if the team doesn't synergize with him. Also, he still has a weak game because they nerfed the Basic Attack damage gained from meat in half (from 1.0 to 0.5).

If anything, I think this minor tweak makes him more viable in a competitive coordinated situation. Before that it was more viable to run around the battlefield in the early game to farm for minion meat; you'd get more value from that than risking losing meat from a poor engage. That made The Butcher less active in skirmishes and even on Team Fights, because your goal was to complete the Fresh MeatFresh Meat quest as soon as possible. I considered that a fatal flaw in his design, because it wasn't fun, and discouraged team fighting. You'd feel tense and scared of losing your hard-earned meat at any moment (this was even worse in his release, where you'd lose ALL the meat). C'mon, The Butcher is supposed to make his opponents fear him, not the opposite!

Now, with the changes of getting even more meat from Heroes, The Butcher players feels more compelled to actively seek Heroes over minions, which also fits the fantasy of the character much more than "Hey guys, I'm just gonna feed on these minions, but I will be back once I get enough". He IS an Assassin, after all; he belongs in the teamfights, not laning.

And lastly, having AbattoirAbattoir as baseline was the best change they could have done. Because in most situations, not picking Abattoir meant a huge damage loss for The Butcher in the late game. Now he has more flexibility in his Level 1 talents, and his late game feels much more rewarding.

3 hours ago, BrightwingMain said:

now they just make Butcher even more problematic at low ranks where people uncoordinately flail around and make him complete rubbish in coordinated environment even tho if they had a rework in mind, it should with all logic be done the other way round, reduce his stompyness in low ranks and make him actually viable in coordinated environment.

He faces a similar problem to Gazlowe, who is a pubstomper, but not so good at the competitive scene. Which I find perfectly fine. You don't have to have all Heroes viable at all game formats. Hammer is another Hero that excels on Quick Match, but not so much on the Leagues. Each Hero fill their role in their own niche, and that is okay.

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34 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

And lastly, having AbattoirAbattoir as baseline was the best change they could have done. Because in most situations, not picking Abattoir meant a huge damage loss for The Butcher in the late game. Now he has more flexibility in his Level 1 talents, and his late game feels much more rewarding.

How? Are really thinking about picking BlockBlock? Or Chop MeatChop Meat? The truth is, everyone will just pick InvigorationInvigoration (and Block in very rare situations.)

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36 minutes ago, Ilonpilaaja said:

How? Are really thinking about picking BlockBlock? Or Chop MeatChop Meat? The truth is, everyone will just pick InvigorationInvigoration (and Block in very rare situations.)

Yeah, I always pick Invigoration too. But If you're facing the likes of Tracer (who can easily zone and pester The Butcher), Block is a bit useful; or even when facing another Butcher. I can only see Chop Meat being useful in Braxis Holdout and Tomb of the Spider Queen.

Edited by Valhalen

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6 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

Yeah, I always pick Invigoration too. But If you're facing the likes of Tracer (who can easily zone and pester The Butcher), Block is a bit useful; or even when facing another Butcher. I can only see Chop Meat being useful in Braxis Holdout and Tomb of the Spider Queen.

Block would be a very weak choice vs Tracer, as just a few bullets would waste Block. Reducing the damage of 2 bullets out of a whole clip is really inefficient. Use Invigorate's mana cost redux to harass her better.

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31 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

Block would be a very weak choice vs Tracer, as just a few bullets would waste Block. Reducing the damage of 2 bullets out of a whole clip is really inefficient. Use Invigorate's mana cost redux to harass her better.

Oh yeah, you're right. I forgot Block works with charges, and not duration (I rarely pick Block with any character, so that explains why I didn't remember how it worked, lol).

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