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Hanzo Meta Tier List (December 2017)

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Our fourteenth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier list for the Hanzo patch of December is here!

We present our fourteenth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier List for the Hanzo patch of December 2017.

Note: This list also takes the December 20 balance patch into account.

Welcome to Icy Veins's Meta Tier List for the Hanzo patch. The goal if of this list is to try and detail game's current metagame state. The prime goal of such lists is to inform players regarding popular and trending team composition drafting strategies (i.e. the drafting metagame). Although tier listings are generally the product of balance, many factors come into play when discussing the relative perceived strengths of heroes, including player regions, maps, play style, skill level, and, of course, personal perception. As such, any tier list—including this very one—should never be interpreted as gospel, but rather, as a guide to better grasp what to expect with regards to typical drafting experiences. One useful application of such lists is to allow you know which heroes to look out for in terms of practice and counterplay, ultimately improving your knowledge of the game.

Using the list

As stated above, tier lists are easy to mistake for gospel. As new strategies are discovered and experimented with, so changes the perception of the relative strengths of each hero. Tier lists still prove to be useful as a snapshot of player expectations in terms of drafting. Although it is generally considered preferable to focus on high tier heroes (Prime and Core tiers), it is important to note that Heroes of the Storm's wild character and map designs make it so that any given hero's tier position is prone to fluctuate depending on the situation at hand.

One classic example of such is that of Kerrigan on the Infernal Shrines map. Although we currently judge her to be a low-to-mid-tier hero, her drafting priority shoots up to first-pick or first-ban material on this specific map due to the nature of its objective. Certain heroes also synergise so well with each other that the sole fact of having the opportunity of drafting them together is generally enough to increase their potential. Tassadar and Tracer, for instance, are generally nightmarish to deal with for many. There are too many examples of these interactions to reasonably produce here, but we invite you to consult our guides to know exactly where and when each hero shines. The guides have been linked in the lists below for your convenience - just click any of the hero names to access them.

A  next to a hero's name means its tier list position has increased since the previous month whereas a  means just the opposite. Additionally, a + or - sign indicates short-to-medium term predictions (which is to say, about a month) for tier increase(s) or decrease(s), respectively. These are often updated after significant balance patches and/or when clear trends are emerging.

If you're newer to the game, also consider visiting our glossary for a comprehensive list of discrete Heroes of the Storm terms.

Current map rotation

 
  • Battlefield of Eternity
  • Braxis Holdout
  • Cursed Hollow
  • Dragon Shire
  • Infernal Shrines
  • Sky Temple
  • Tomb of the Spider Queen
  • Towers of Doom
  • Warhead Junction

 

Warhead Junction replaces Garden of Terror and Volskaya Foundry.

 

Prime Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Arthas Genji - -
E.T.C. Greymane    
  Malthael    
  Nova↑↑↑-    
  Valeera↑↑↑    

Prime tier heroes are considered to be extremely strong in all situations, and show no obvious weakness. They are very often banned or picked right away, as they generally dictate the pace of most matches.

 

Core Tier

 

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Anub'arak Falstad Brightwing Azmodan
Dehaka Kerrigan Lúcio Nazeebo
Diablo Li-Ming- Uther Zagara
Muradin Valla    
Sonya+ Zul'jin    
Stitches      
Varian (Tank)      

Core tier heroes are strong in a wide variety of situations and have few counter-picking possibility. They should form the core of your team, and be picked after Prime Tier heroes have been distributed.

 

Viable Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Artanis Alarak Alexstrasza Abathur
D.Va Cassia Ana Murky
Garrosh↓↓- Chromie Auriel Probius
Johanna Gul'dan Kharazim Sylvanas 
Leoric Illidan Li Li Xul
Zarya Kael'thas Lt. Morales  
  Kel'Thuzad- Malfurion  
  Jaina Rehgar  
  Lunara Stukov  
  Ragnaros Tyrande  
  Samuro    
  The Butcher    
  Tracer    
  Zeratul    

Viable tier heroes are generally well-rounded that have either fallen out of favour, or, inversely, are on the rise in popularity, due to the current Prime tier contenders.

 

Niche Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Chen Cho'gall Tassadar↓↓ Gazlowe
Cho'gall Junkrat   Medivh
Rexxar Hanzo (new)   Sgt. Hammer
Tyrael Raynor    
  Thrall    
  Tychus    
  Varian (Damage)    

Niche tier heroes have niche application on certain maps or for certain team compositions. They are generally picked to "round out" your team composition when your team composition is missing out on key components, such as a "jungler" (mercenary camps), a solo laner, or solid waveclear.

 

Bottom Tier

The Lost Vikings

Bottom tier Heroes are deemed to be either considerably weaker than the majority of other Heroes, or much more challenging to play properly. Although they may situationally shine, these Heroes are generally avoided by most players.

 

Metagame assessment

I'd like to begin this month's assessment with a small apology for being so slow. I was waiting for the announced follow-up patch to hit so as to not invalidate the entire list after a week... which seemed to be right, because a massive surprise Garrosh nerf essentially destroyed his identity by changing GroundbreakerGroundbreaker from a pulling effect into a weak stun and slow. This is a massive blow to the hero, who can no longer pull enemies to or away from his teammates, let alone follow up with Wrecking BallWrecking Ball. Blizzard's justification was that Garrosh wasn't particularly fun to deal with, and I agreed. Unfortunately, they also used the typical heavy-handed Blizzard balance approach of "take something important away and don't give anything meaningful in return", thus irreparably injuring a hero that was already seeing sub-50% win rates. Reducing the tossing range of Wrecking Ball may have been a better solution, but what's done is done, and I think we're all looking forward to a Garrosh break.

Hanzo. I criticized him rather harshly following my BlizzCon experience and called him something like "difficult to play, undertuned, and inflexible due to lacking self-sustain and PvE damage". I would have been mostly right if it weren't for the blanket 10% damage buff he received back in early November, and the Serrated ArrowsSerrated Arrows + Never OutmatchedNever Outmatched combo, which allow him to deal with mercenaries with excessive ease. Hanzo players simply need to hope that these talents don't end up getting nerfed, as they pretty much define the hero right now. Dragon's ArrowDragon's Arrow is really good, to the point of being Hanzo's one saving grace in team fights.

Nova. As a filthy long-time Nova enthusiast, I thought she was never all that far away from being a viable pick. The issue with heroes that bring little more than raw hero damage to the table, however, is that they tend to either feel undertuned or oppressive. With her most recent buffs resulting from the stealth changes patch,  Nova is now the latter, and, along with Valeera, warps the metagame away from casters and generally frail heroes. I suspect waveclear-heavy double tank compositions to make a comeback if these two go unchecked for any period of time.

ValeeraGarroteGarrote is excessively strong against all targets – silencing your kill target for nearly 3 seconds or the healer is invaluable – and very reasonable sustained damage output lets Valeera punish poor rotations. She, along Nova, is probably on the list for a bit of a nerf. In the meantime, our stealth overlords (sans Zeratul) are going to make casters difficult to run.

Uther. The blanket 5% nerf to healing values and healer health left those who offered value beyond raw healing ahead of their support compatriots. DevotionDevotion was obviously unaffected by those nerfs, and so, Uther was bound to become a bit more popular. The emergence of Nova/Valeera was also a boon to him as he tends to do well versus burst damage.

Zagara. The healing globe changes made general lane dominance more important than it was, and, as it turns out, no one beats Zagara early on. I initially thought the ammo nerfs would also impact specialists in general, but the minion buffs (which compensate for stronger towers) make quickly eliminating minion waves and having summons to tank turrets, two things which Zagara offers, particularly valuable. Her win rates skyrocket at high levels of play, seemingly as player decision making skills improve.

Zeratul. The loss of Combo Slash hurt his early game tremendously, and Might Of The NerazimMight Of The Nerazim basically forces you to choose between dealing damage and having utility through Void PrisonVoid Prison. Zeratul remains a strong pick at high level play, but I feel like he's the weakest he's ever been. His only point of redemption over Valeera is his ability to deal with mercenary camps and generally waveclear.

Alexstrasza. She was on the weaker side of things, but Blizzard seemed to be aware as the healerpocalypse patch spared her. She was then subsequently buffed a bit to try and bring her in line with other healers.

Rehgar. He's still good as a general "not too sure what to pick here" healer, but not particularly focused. Losing Lightning Bond hurt, as did the blanket healer nerf, as Rehgar was one of the best supports to "use" his health pool aggressively. We'll see what happens with him, but I don't expect to see him around nearly as much.

Sylvanas. With two powerful counterpicks being at the top of the food chain, I can't see Sylvanas doing well anytime soon. Her need to constantly be attacking structures to deal lasting damage simply can't be compared to Zagara's dump-and-forget playstyle as of right now.

Tassadar. The healer nerf came at a pretty bad time as he was already beginning to see less and less play. I'm not entirely sure about what warranted his recent fall, but I suspect it may have to do with shields being relatively less valuable than healing in drawn out fights. Like Zeratul, Tassadar remains strong at very high levels of play, but is otherwise lacklustre.

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Hey Oxygen, wanna know how do you say "does not go" in Spanish?

"NO VA".

That's right, she doesn't go there. And that's after I played her a million times in QM (beating up the likes of Brutalis in the process)

Even if for whatever reason you ignore her multiple nerfs, she's still atrociously counterpicked by most warriors, and even some of her habitual victims like Jaina now have ways to avoid her burst damage combos.

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  1. I agree with this about nova and Valera. . They are pissing me off more than ever.. just hope blizzard nerf them or back them to their orginal before this stealth update... u also had to put Sam in top tiers too...
  2. I can't be agree with hanzo... he's at least something normal not bad... specially about his ult .. btw I think his E needs some changes..
  3. I still can't be agree with damage varian if it's "Fury".. since this can be tank dps at once with it since he heals himself easily specially when u pick protect at lv4 and do much damages and even can do bosses alone ..
  4.  And still cant be agree with tyrael he's really good everybody knows!!!I everytime wish to have him on team .. he got good abilities and good damage as tank and talents which even affects  teammates hes great on teamfights ...he got good ults so nobody can't deny his good condition. .
  5. I think u should put illidan in bottom tier! Just judge between Illidan and genji... genji does much much damage but Illidan barely does like a sup's damage... genji got protect which reflect but Illidan got E which jus takes basic attacks... genji can use W E D and even his x strike ult to survive but Illidan needs talents to just charge on allies and E does more stuffs... genji got more mobility genji can finish enemies better than Illidan genji's two ults are good but Illidan just should pick hunt genji is ranged but Illidan has to go through enemies with his low health... only thing we can see from Illidan is he can do camps better then u can pick Sam and do camps n do much much more stuffs better than illi that's reason I think Illidan should be at lower tier

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Alexstrasza is magically viable. *Thinking* Last month she was trash tier. No comment.

Hanzo
-can solo mercs fast
-counters heroes that depends on shields even Johannas shields get wrecked by him in 1 storm bow hit
-a lot of time people cant even dodge his skillshots because his range is out of their vision
-both siege/hero dmg can compare to Lunara
-great at defending against bosses/monsters and objectives with monsters/bosses
-hes actually a pretty good finisher
-bonus: can unmount a whole team (if you like being a pain in the ***)

How is he niche. *Thinking*
Only thing that is niche about him is his Dragonstrike. That ulti doesnt feel impactful at all.
I do agree that changes to Serrated Arrows or Never Outmatched would hurt him a lot. 

Nova is pretty much the same as ever, shes just safer because of the new clone AI and the fact that she can now have 2 clones.
Nowhere near core tier. 

6 hours ago, Oxygen said:

Prime tier heroes are considered to be extremely strong in all situations, and show no obvious weakness.

You can just pick Lunara, Malfurion, Raynor, Tassadar. Anything that can easily reveal her and shes back to trash tier.
^ This is a pretty obvious weakness lol
Shes pretty much the same as ever. Just harder to kill.
No offense, I like Nova, shes a lot of fun but shes nowhere near prime tier.

Valeera, its funny that her dmg was actually nerfed but her utility got a buff. 
The Silence is really strong on all heroes indeed but she has blinds now too. 
She basically turned into a hero that can counter almost anything.
Shes actually decent at taking siege giants with Garrote build btw.

Everyone expected this. 
Blizzard makes stealths visible so they can buff them. People start crying: 
"Now theyre even more OP!" 
Raise your hand if you knew this was gonna happen. lol

Edited by xevex
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2 hours ago, xevex said:

Alexstrasza is magically viable. *Thinking* Last month she was trash tier. No comment.

Hanzo
-can solo mercs fast
-counters heroes that depends on shields even Johannas shields get wrecked by him in 1 storm bow hit
-a lot of time people cant even dodge his skillshots because his range is out of their vision
-both siege/hero dmg can compare to Lunara
-great at defending against bosses/monsters and objectives with monsters/bosses
-hes actually a pretty good finisher
-bonus: can unmount a whole team (if you like being a pain in the ***)

How is he niche. *Thinking*
Only thing that is niche about him is his Dragonstrike. That ulti doesnt feel impactful at all.
I do agree that changes to Serrated Arrows or Never Outmatched would hurt him a lot. 

Nova is pretty much the same as ever, shes just safer because of the new clone AI and the fact that she can now have 2 clones.
Nowhere near core tier. 

You can just pick Lunara, Malfurion, Raynor, Tassadar. Anything that can easily reveal her and shes back to trash tier.
^ This is a pretty obvious weakness lol
Shes pretty much the same as ever. Just harder to kill.
No offense, I like Nova, shes a lot of fun but shes nowhere near prime tier.

Valeera, its funny that her dmg was actually nerfed but her utility got a buff. 
The Silence is really strong on all heroes indeed but she has blinds now too. 
She basically turned into a hero that can counter almost anything.
Shes actually decent at taking siege giants with Garrote build btw.

Everyone expected this. 
Blizzard makes stealths visible so they can buff them. People start crying: 
"Now theyre even more OP!" 
Raise your hand if you knew this was gonna happen. lol

Amen

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7 hours ago, MZLICH said:

And still cant be agree with tyrael he's really good everybody knows!!!I everytime wish to have him on team .. he got good abilities and good damage as tank and talents which even affects  teammates hes great on teamfights ...he got good ults so nobody can't deny his good condition. .

Tyrael is good but difficult to play, even for high level players. Remember that this list isn't based on hero power or potential power alone, but also, on popularity. The overall goal of the list is to try and guess which heroes are most likely going to be picked in a natural drafting environment. Since Tyrael is unlikely to appear, he's in a low tier. This has little to do with his power level.

This is a pretty common mistake a lot of people seem to be making. Garrosh was not particularly powerful, but he still earned bans in 90% of games. This meant that his top tier spot was not earned due to power, but due to popularity.

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The nerf to Garrosh was devastating but it'll still take a month or so before we see the game return to the usual high standard of balance it tries to maintain. Nova is immediately a lot stronger following the stealth rework largely due to her being a ranged hero; lots of strong upfront burst, distracting clones with channel interrupting damage and if you maintain 5 stacks of Snipe, a devastating force on the map or teamfight and surprisingly stubborn to remove and chase down - even dangerous to pursue. I've been playing Ana a lot past few weeks, I have to say that lol'ing around at Nova this past week, she definitely earns at least consideration for the top end of tier lists. 

I've played other stealth heroes such as Samuro, but the lack of control over clones early on as well as movement and input bugs in the game atm must also have an effect on informed tier lists such as this one. 

Poor Garrosh. I didn't like the one trick combo, but really enjoyed his heavy focus on being a solid front liner and fantastic talent tree that could make him one of the most mechanically demanding Warriors to play in the whole game. I aim to get some practise on him while he falls into underdog status and play him more according to my own playstyle.

2 hours ago, Dejo93 said:

Alexstrasza is magically viable. *Thinking* Last month she was trash tier. No comment.

I'll comment instead then. Alex wasn't in bottom tier whatsoever, she was launched at roughly the same time the tier list was released and put into the niche group. Upon her release it was immediately apparent that her W had issues which have since been looked at, and she arrived just before the battleground and laning changes, as well as Cleansing Flame's power only JUST being nerfed this last patch demonstrated she has tons of potential. She needed time for the playerbase to get used to her more unique way of healing, and, like Uther, her Q post 16 gets more powerful and a pretty versatile talent tree on top of that, and now buffs to her Gift of Life ult which imo has one of the best level 20 upgrade talents in the game and I look forward to experimenting with them. 

So no, not magically viable all of a sudden. Logically viable, after being observed for a period of time. 

Edit: Hanzo has definite potential, but really struggles on maps that have less contest points with walls or terrain for him to get Scatter Shot value - eg, Industries - consistently, which he NEEDS to help with his poke and harassment, not to mention his main escape. Not many assassins have such shoehorned map dependencies, and those that do are almost always considered niche. 

Furthermore, at time of typing, Hanzo is currently suffering from a bug that affects movement of the character. If that's not a reason to hold ANY hero from being considered viable, then I don't know what to tell you gang. 

Edit 2: Happy Holidays everyone!

Edited by Plergoth
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 I can see why put Hanzo in the niche tier despite the disagreement here. I think I probably would've put him in the viable tier, but that's a different discussion. Nova being top tier no way. While her dmg is good, but I know how to beat her. In solo que where team is weak and chaotic i'm sure she can be oppressive, much like valeera or any stealth hero. I remember a game on cursed hollow, back when she had GP, and I was force to be reckon with. Every team fight I was the last one alive for both teams, but that's cause I was left alone to play my own game. 

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3 hours ago, Oxygen said:

Tyrael is good but difficult to play, even for high level players. Remember that this list isn't based on hero power or potential power alone, but also, on popularity. The overall goal of the list is to try and guess which heroes are most likely going to be picked in a natural drafting environment. Since Tyrael is unlikely to appear, he's in a low tier. This has little to do with his power level.

This is a pretty common mistake a lot of people seem to be making. Garrosh was not particularly powerful, but he still earned bans in 90% of games. This meant that his top tier spot was not earned due to power, but due to popularity.

Okay, but I still don't see a lot of Novas in league. The few times I tried to draft her in HL myself, I failed spectacularly (and I saw others failing as well). Her "domain" is still limited to QM which is basically the worst mode because it's not possible to draft there.

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3 minutes ago, Leadblast said:

Okay, but I still don't see a lot of Novas in league. The few times I tried to draft her in HL myself, I failed spectacularly (and I saw others failing as well). Her "domain" is still limited to QM which is basically the worst mode because it's not possible to draft there.

Exactly, its like when I play kerrigan or alarak in QM. 

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Also, the reason behind Nova's apparent popularity may be a combination of factors not related at all with her strength.

In my own personal case, for example, I was never a Nova player before the stealth rework (the Hanzo patch). To me, she was already one of the worst heroes in the game before that point for the reasons we all know; poor utility, no waveclear (besides Explosive Round), little survivability, etc. But I started picking her a lot in QM just to see how strong she had gotten. She's now my most played hero in QM by a mile, but my whole motivation to use her was simply to assess her real strengths, not to exploit them. To experiment with new builds (a decoy build), to see how her new talents worked. In a simple word, experimentation.

However, I just contributed to her perceived popularity during this period. I was part of the players who made her skyrocket to "60% winrate" with all my Nova games. But in the end, after enough of picking her, assessing how good her new tools and talents are and seeing how could she be countered, my opinion about the character has only deteriorated, if anything.

Edited by Leadblast

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5 hours ago, Plergoth said:

I'll comment instead then. Alex wasn't in bottom tier whatsoever, she was launched at roughly the same time the tier list was released and put into the niche group. Upon her release it was immediately apparent that her W had issues which have since been looked at, and she arrived just before the battleground and laning changes, as well as Cleansing Flame's power only JUST being nerfed this last patch demonstrated she has tons of potential. She needed time for the playerbase to get used to her more unique way of healing, and, like Uther, her Q post 16 gets more powerful and a pretty versatile talent tree on top of that, and now buffs to her Gift of Life ult which imo has one of the best level 20 upgrade talents in the game and I look forward to experimenting with them. 

I was saying shes as viable as most healers in the game from the start. Oxygen was calling her undertuned. 
I was getting amazing healing numbers with her after just few days testing her. If you dont take any dmg youre pretty much a permanently nano-boosted Uther lol.(Life Blossom Build obviously)

5 hours ago, Plergoth said:

Furthermore, at time of typing, Hanzo is currently suffering from a bug that affects movement of the character. If that's not a reason to hold ANY hero from being considered viable, then I don't know what to tell you gang. 

I dont think that Hanzo specific some weird things has been happening with every hero. I right click somewhere on the map then hold space and suddenly the hero stops lol. 
Hes suffering from a bug which doesnt charge the storm bow sometimes so you sometimes shoot a melee storm bow. lol 
Only map i see hem struggling is Haunted Mines, others have more then enough terrain. 

Merry X-Mas Guys/Gals

Edited by xevex

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Still greatly undervaluing Alexstrasza. Does anyone who plays her actually consider her as being on the same tier as Tyrande? Really? Really? Alexstrasza, if utilized properly, is the strongest support in the game, IMO. But then again, I also get the feeling that supports are being undervalued in comparison to other roles. And I don't think Alex was ever on the "weaker" side of things. She's simply not as intuitive to play and has a steeper learning curve -- that's the real reason for her "poor" win-rate debut: L2P issues. I think there's an argument for moving her to Core Tier.

Nova and Valeera are being overvalued too. They are strong right now, but Prime Tier is just laughable.

Edited by mm7756aa
Grammar

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I find Hanzo is actually decent, but you aren't taking him as a primary assassin.  His strength is his range; he outranges basically everyone except Li-Ming, while offering a nice AOE vision which counters stealth heroes, which I note are prime tier right now.  And a map range stun (and teleport at 20) can be VERY impactful on certain maps where there isn't much room to move around the OBJ.

 

He is NOT a pure damage dealer, but he can easily chunk off half-health heroes safely due to his range.  I feel like he's almost a ranged version of Genji; able to safely kill weakened heroes, but limited to poking most of the time.

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10 hours ago, gamerk2 said:

 I feel like he's almost a ranged version of Genji

Was genji melee? -_-

And how you feel this!? They are something different! Hanno is a rally shooter hero u need to know how to work with Q and W and E efficiently like a sniper because u can't just shoot anywhere working with Q needs experience u need to know how to split shots(from W) well.. u need much experience to cast E on heroes his R is shooting ability with long range too..genji's duty is finishing off people with dashing to them like as what Illidan does but hanzo's main duty is doing damage(nova is finisher version of shooting heroes)I don't see any similar thing between them except they both r from Overwatch lel!

(I just feel u say they r same because they got a jumping ability as D lul!)

10 hours ago, gamerk2 said:

he outranges basically everyone except Li-Ming, 

Btw Is this a joke?xD

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7 hours ago, mm7756aa said:

Still greatly undervaluing Alexstrasza. Does anyone who plays her actually consider her as being on the same tier as Tyrande? Really? Really? Alexstrasza, if utilized properly, is the strongest support in the game, IMO. But then again, I also get the feeling that supports are being undervalued in comparison to other roles. And I don't think Alex was ever on the "weaker" side of things. She's simply not as intuitive to play and has a steeper learning curve -- that's the real reason for her "poor" win-rate debut: L2P issues. I think there's an argument for moving her to Core Tier.

Nova and Valeera are being overvalued too. They are strong right now, but Prime Tier is just laughable.

Indeed. Alexstraszas kit is somewhat contradicting itself, we though that she would be this aggressive healer but its completly opposite. 
You need make sure noone ever hits you, ever. If you do that, she heals higher then BW amounts. 
 

4 hours ago, MZLICH said:

Was genji melee? -_-

And how you feel this!? They are something different! Hanno is a rally shooter hero u need to know how to work with Q and W and E efficiently like a sniper because u can't just shoot anywhere working with Q needs experience u need to know how to split shots(from W) well.. u need much experience to cast E on heroes his R is shooting ability with long range too..genji's duty is finishing off people with dashing to them like as what Illidan does but hanzo's main duty is doing damage(nova is finisher version of shooting heroes)I don't see any similar thing between them except they both r from Overwatch lel!

(I just feel u say they r same because they got a jumping ability as D lul!)

Considering his Q is melee if you want it to use it for single target dmg and ss is a blade cut, deflect involves him using his sword to deflect projectiles. He isnt a melee but doesnt feel like a typical ranged hero either. While Hanzo feels like a pure ranged hero. But he has that finisher feel i would even say more apprent the Genji because of his higher dmg abilities. 

I got used to the skillshot that i manage sonic arrow  finishes sometimes. loool Kills achieved like this are so funny. E on heroes is pretty much like Chromies Dragon Breath it takes the projectile 1.5s to land. 
Imo its much better to use all of his abilities on quickcast. Scatter arrow on release slows you down too much. I get better results when i "calculate" the trajectory in my head. 

Hanzos main duty is to kill people. The fact that Genjis basic attack and abilities are so fast and have short cooldowns, Genji is much more sustain oriented in his kit while with Hanzo, everything is bursty. He has 2 abilities to finish heroes both of them very long range. Dragon Arrow is basically a more powerful warlords challenge. I think Garrosh really needs some buffs in some places lol.

Edited by xevex

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About Valeera being Prime I can kinda agree. Her utility was buffed beyond reason. But I wouldn't put Nova in Prime Tier. She's pretty much a pubstomper. She may be Top Tier in QM, but I wouldn't say that for HL/TL. Her Decoy now does, however, make her very ellusive; the AI improvements of the Decoy can sometimes fool even the most experienced players, specially since they shifted some of Nova's power into the Decoy (this shit can actually hurt now).

This video is a living proof of this:

 

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Funny that you mentioned it, yesterday in QM enemy team was about to finish game at our core, I go macho mode with Genji up against Nova. In all that mess, I ended up surrounded by "3" Novas, all standing still.

If I wasn't under pressure, and in the cluster*!*?%, I guess I could have deducted which Nova is real, but like this, huh.

And while I do like Hanzo, not going to talk about his abilities and damage since I'm still getting used to him, but man, that Trait... Clunkiest thing I've ever seen.

By the way, did you know Cores actually have star-like hitbox? I don't know if it's actually possible, but I've never managed to jump over Core with Trait.

Edited by SleepySheepy
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12 minutes ago, SleepySheepy said:

Funny that you mentioned it, yesterday in QM enemy team was about to finish game at our core, I go macho mode with Genji up against Nova. In all that mess, I ended up surrounded by "3" Novas, all standing still.

If I wasn't under pressure, and in the cluster*!*?%, I guess I could have deducted which Nova is real, but like this, huh.

And while I do like Hanzo, not going to talk about his abilities and damage since I'm still getting used to him, but man, that Trait... Clunkiest thing I've ever seen.

By the way, did you know Cores actually have star-like hitbox? I don't know if it's actually possible, but I've never managed to jump over Core with Trait.

Skilled Nova players can even feign and pretend they're the Decoy. It's a risky, but pretty smart strategy.

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5 hours ago, SleepySheepy said:

Funny that you mentioned it, yesterday in QM enemy team was about to finish game at our core, I go macho mode with Genji up against Nova. In all that mess, I ended up surrounded by "3" Novas, all standing still.

If I wasn't under pressure, and in the cluster*!*?%, I guess I could have deducted which Nova is real, but like this, huh.

No one told you that Genji has poor AOE? either way, if the "3 Novas" were standing tightly close to each other, I guess you could have evaded their burst with an X-Strike or something... or at the very least you would have retreated easily with E and/or your trait. Your loss was your own fault

Edited by Leadblast

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5 hours ago, Valhalen said:

Skilled Nova players can even feign and pretend they're the Decoy. It's a risky, but pretty smart strategy.

You know, this was possible before with the "dumb AI decoy" but not now.

Decoys don't retreat, don't walk by, they just stand still and attack, so any Nova that retreats is not a decoy.

Edited by Leadblast

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1 hour ago, Leadblast said:

You know, this was possible before with the "dumb AI decoy" but not now.

Decoys don't retreat, don't walk by, they just stand still and attack, so any Nova that retreats is not a decoy.

3 posts earlier you have a video where in first scene nova's decoy runs away from Tyraels' blast... but of course you know better.
Always nice to have an "expert" around -__-'

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53 minutes ago, Godeyes said:

3 posts earlier you have a video where in first scene nova's decoy runs away from Tyraels' blast... but of course you know better.
Always nice to have an "expert" around -__-'

Tyrael's blast? I don't even know what you mean.

Are you an expert? at least I know how Tyrael's skills are named.

 

EDIT: if you mean what happened there at 00:30, I must say I've never ever seen a Nova decoy running away like that. But the direction where the decoy ends up running to is very suspicious. A human Nova player trying to flee from certain death would have run towards the base or towards teammates for protection. The decoy here simply runs towards the limit of the map, which is questionable and weird to say the least. 

Maybe (just maybe, I really don't know) it has to do with how the Tyrael made a Blocking Field with Eldruin's talent just a second before dying, that's my guess. That probably caused the decoy to run away into a random direction, rather than just stand there. Maybe.

Edited by Leadblast

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How is Sonya still not Prime Tier? Seriously? 

- strong solo laner

- high jungling efficiency: with Lightning Bond removed and the buffs to the camps, this is a valuable asset

- good pick on ANY maps in ANY situation

- IMO, meta defining which makes an early Arthas pick risky since he has no interrupt; the fact that you NEED to have an interrupt for a 5s cd ability is so insane

- strong team fight presence: best bruiser in the game right now

- no hard counters

I can't see in any way that Sonya is placed lower than Malthael.

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