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Maiev Meta Tier List (February 2018)

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Our sixteenth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier list for the Maiev patch of February is here!

We present our sixteenth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier List for the Maiev patch of February 2018.

Note: This list also takes the February 9 balance patch into account.

Welcome to Icy Veins's Meta Tier List for the Maiev patch. The goal if of this list is to try and detail game's current metagame state. The prime goal of such lists is to inform players regarding popular and trending team composition drafting strategies (i.e. the drafting metagame). Although tier listings are generally the product of balance, many factors come into play when discussing the relative perceived strengths of heroes, including player regions, maps, play style, skill level, and, of course, personal perception. As such, any tier list—including this very one—should never be interpreted as gospel, but rather, as a guide to better grasp what to expect with regards to typical drafting experiences. One useful application of such lists is to allow you know which heroes to look out for in terms of practice and counterplay, ultimately improving your knowledge of the game.

Using the list

As stated above, tier lists are easy to mistake for gospel. As new strategies are discovered and experimented with, so changes the perception of the relative strengths of each hero. Tier lists still prove to be useful as a snapshot of player expectations in terms of drafting. Although it is generally considered preferable to focus on high tier heroes (Prime and Core tiers), it is important to note that Heroes of the Storm's wild character and map designs make it so that any given hero's tier position is prone to fluctuate depending on the situation at hand.

One classic example of such is that of Kerrigan on the Infernal Shrines map. Although we currently judge her to be a mid-tier hero, her drafting priority shoots up to first-pick or first-ban material on this specific map due to the nature of its objective. Certain heroes also synergise so well with each other that the sole fact of having the opportunity of drafting them together is generally enough to increase their potential. Tassadar and Tracer, for instance, are generally nightmarish to deal with for many. There are too many examples of these interactions to reasonably produce here, but we invite you to consult our guides to know exactly where and when each hero shines. The guides have been linked in the lists below for your convenience - just click any of the hero names to access them.

A  next to a hero's name means its tier list position has increased since the previous month whereas a  means just the opposite. Additionally, a + or - sign indicates short-to-medium term predictions (which is to say, about a month) for tier increase(s) or decrease(s), respectively. These are often updated after significant balance patches and/or when clear trends are emerging.

If you're newer to the game, also consider visiting our glossary for a comprehensive list of discrete Heroes of the Storm terms.

Current ranked mode map rotation

 
  • Battlefield of Eternity
  • Braxis Holdout
  • Cursed Hollow
  • Dragon Shire
  • Infernal Shrines
  • Sky Temple
  • Tomb of the Spider Queen
  • Towers of Doom
  • Volskaya Foundry

 

Prime Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Arthas Genji - -
E.T.C. Greymane    
Sonya Hanzo    
  Maiev (new)    

Prime tier heroes are considered to be extremely strong in all situations, and show no obvious weakness. They are very often banned or picked right away, as they generally dictate the pace of most matches.

 

Core Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Anub'arak Falstad Alexstrasza Abathur
Dehaka Jaina Brightwing- Azmodan
Diablo+ Junkrat Lúcio+ Nazeebo
Muradin Li-Ming Malfurion Sylvanas
Stitches Malthael (reworked)+ Stukov  Zagara
Varian (TauntTaunt) Valla Uther  

Core tier heroes are strong in a wide variety of situations and have few counter-picking possibility. They should form the core of your team, and be picked after Prime Tier heroes have been distributed.

 

Viable Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Artanis Alarak Ana Murky
Blaze+ Cassia Auriel Xul
D.Va Chromie Kharazim  
Garrosh Gul'dan+ Li Li  
Johanna Illidan Lt. Morales  
Leoric Kael'thas+ Rehgar  
Tyrael  Kel'Thuzad Tyrande  
 Zarya Kerrigan    
  Lunara    
  Nova    
  Ragnaros+    
  Samuro    
  The Butcher    
  Thrall+    
  Tracer+    
  Tychus    
  Varian (Colossus SmashColossus Smash)    
  Zeratul    
  Zul'jin    

Viable tier heroes are generally well-rounded that have either fallen out of favour, or, inversely, are on the rise in popularity, due to the current Prime tier contenders.

 

Niche Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Chen Cho'gall Tassadar Gazlowe
Cho'gall Raynor   Medivh
Rexxar Valeera   Probius
  Varian (Twin Blades of FuryTwin Blades of Fury)   Sgt. Hammer

Niche tier heroes have niche application on certain maps or for certain team compositions. They may also picked to "round out" your team composition when your team composition is missing out on key components, such as a "jungler" (mercenary camps), a solo laner, or solid waveclear.

 

Lost Vikings Tier

The Lost Vikings

Bottom tier Heroes are deemed to be either considerably weaker than the majority of other Heroes, or much more challenging to play properly. Although they may situationally shine, these Heroes are generally avoided by most players.

 

Metagame assessment

Maiev: Where do I even begin? Despite heavy-handed nerfs delivered less than a week after her release, Maiev continues to dominate popularity (read: is banned about 5 times more than she is played at all levels) and top win rates. The fact that I'm not sure what exactly contributes to her success is probably a good indicator of what actually contributes to her success: everything. High survivability, high mobility, high damage potential through Fan of KnivesFan of Knives's ability to reset, the ability to both set up and follow up for and on crowd control through Spirit of VengeanceSpirit of VengeanceUmbral BindUmbral Bind, serviceable waveclear, and Vault of the WardensVault of the Wardens on a ridiculously short cooldown for good measure to make her an unviable target for heroic ability chains. Warden's CageWarden's Cage ended up the favoured heroic ability choice for Maiev, and it's rather easy to see why; it just works well with the rest of her kit on top of being quite easy for anyone to use, though Containment DiscContainment Disc is not to be underestimated either. She's at the top of the food chain, so Prime tier it is. Expect further nerfs.

Jaina: Jaina was last month's surprise for me, which is why I had her marked for promotion. I slightly feared Genji players, but after witnessing some more competent Jaina play (including my own not-so-competent experimentation), it's safe to say that Summon Water ElementalSummon Water Elemental is absolutely key to dealing with him (along pretty much every other assassin in the game). For games with little melee assassin pressure, Ring of FrostRing of Frost remains a powerful win condition. Jaina also sports what is arguably the game's best waveclear potential, and can deal with mercenary camps extremely well with Frost ShardsFrost Shards and Ice LanceIce Lance

Malthael: I can certainly see how Malthael's rework may have seemed rather grim to anyone underestimating the power of cleaving attacks. This change, though accompanied by slight nerfs to his damage and survivability, allowed his already powerful laning  to improve, just as with his ability to deal with mercenary camps. One should never underestimate the power of PvE, particularly in less organised play. Furthermore, his reliance upon Tormented SoulsTormented Souls was reduced, allowing for Last RitesLast Rites to actually get some playtime. I've been impressed with it, and I'm probably going to update his builds to reflect this newfound power.

Abathur: Abathur is the kind of hero that comes and goes with the metagame state and who generally thrives in assassin-oriented states. As with Genji, I wouldn't be fooled by his limited winrates; he just simply tends to do better at higher level, more organised play, and particularly in longer matches. To avoid on Haunted Mines and Braxis Holdout. Please pick your Ultimate EvolutionUltimate Evolution target responsibly, and go for an assassin, with Maiev, Genji, Hanzo, and Jaina making incredible targets. Incidentally, avoid Evolve MonstrosityEvolve Monstrosity; it has been tested and rejected a long time ago.

Tychus: Not a big leap in tier, but a leap nonetheless. He went from seeing pretty much no play for quite a while to seeing some, including tournament play. As expected, he does well against Blaze and a few other bruisers, on top of being on the more resilient side of ranged assassins. Commandeer OdinCommandeer Odin is excellent, but the real sleeper here is Neosteel CoatingNeosteel Coating, which can do funny things with Relentless SoldierRelentless Soldier.

Probius: Nearly as unpopular as The Lost Vikings. Though I don't think he's bad, I certainly think he does not have a place in the current meta. All of the top picks do extremely well against him, as does diving in general. I really wish I had more insights here, but the very few times I did see him in the last month, it was rather sad to witness. 

Sgt. Hammer: I initially had her as viable, but upon reading user comments, I had to agree: she does extremely well against team compositions that cannot deal with her, and poorly otherwise. This is basically what the Niche tier should be defined by. We could discuss at length why this design is rather unhealthy for the game, but I think Blizzard has recognized this by not releasing a single specialist in over a year.

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Even after 2nd major nerf, Maiev is still considered Prime Tier? Impressive.

And I still don't get, what's VIABLE about Hammer? She is sub 50% now, among least played heroes and very easily countered.


PS: Expecting drop in tier for Ragnaros, Thrall and other melee assasins that have so-so mobility if Maiev sticks in Prime Tier.

 

PPS: Abathur is surprisingly good secondary support if need arises.

Edited by SleepySheepy

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I'm expecting Blaze to rise up from viable to core tier, particularly after Malthael's rework, Maiev's nerfs and anything else planned for the Super Nintendo brothers, as well as people getting used to using Bunker. He has been a constant sight in HGC series, often picked early in drafts and utilised either as a solo laner or a main tank because he really is that versatile and just an extremely well made and well rounded Warrior, and it'll only be a matter of time before ranked starts to reflect this more accurately. He's also on the free rotation this week, so make sure you get some practise in and see for yourself! 

JayPL from Team Dignitas recently uploaded a video of him playing Blaze with his commentary (in French, with English subtitles) that demonstrates his capability as a main tank as well as offering insight from one of the best tank / warrior players out there, here if you're interested: 
 



Many of the supports are very close together right now, but due to the nature of the prime and core tier heroes I have to definitely say Malfurion and Uther are very much on that precipice of being prime tier themselves, as I find myself coming back to Malf - my most played hero - as a safe pick  his flexible and strong kit, but there's something to be said about Uther's overall strength and he's popular across many divisions for good reason. 

Edited by Plergoth
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It's almost as if the nerfs on Sonya, Hanzo and Genji aren't actually doing anything to weaken the characters...

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2 hours ago, Plergoth said:

I'm expecting Blaze to rise up from viable to core tier, particularly after Malthael's rework, Maiev's nerfs and anything else planned for the Super Nintendo brothers, as well as people getting used to using Bunker. He has been a constant sight in HGC series, often picked early in drafts and utilised either as a solo laner or a main tank because he really is that versatile and just an extremely well made and well rounded Warrior, and it'll only be a matter of time before ranked starts to reflect this more accurately. He's also on the free rotation this week, so make sure you get some practise in and see for yourself! 

JayPL from Team Dignitas recently uploaded a video of him playing Blaze with his commentary (in French, with English subtitles) that demonstrates his capability as a main tank as well as offering a insight from one of the best tank / warrior players out there, here if you're interested: 

Many of the supports are very close together right now, but due to the nature of the prime and core tier heroes I have to definitely say Malfurion and Uther are very much on that precipice of being prime tier themselves, as I find myself coming back to Malf - my most played hero - as a safe pick  his flexible and strong kit, but there's something to be said about Uther's overall strength and he's popular across many divisions for good reason. 

I've always believed in Blaze's potential from the moment I saw his spotlight. He is currently one of my mains in the Warrior class, and his self-sustain and utility are very strong. He can potentially solo bosses with the right build. Also, his kit also synergizes very well with Maiev's (Oil SpillOil Spill + Jet PropulsionJet PropulsionCombustionCombustion + Umbral BindUmbral Bind + Warden's CageWarden's Cage), who is currently a Prime.

With Maiev being on Prime, I strongly believe that ETC will maintain his position in Prime, as they have an absurdly powerful synergy thanks to Mosh PitMosh Pit and Block PartyBlock Party (the latter is perfect for a Physical Build Maiev because it increases the uptime of Armored AssaultArmored Assault).

Alexstrasza could also see a rise in my eyes as well when paired with Maiev, as Flame BuffetFlame Buffet is fantastic to push people away from Umbral BindUmbral Bind, and she can also bestow armor to her allies thanks to Tough LoveTough Love, which again, increases the uptime of Maiev's Armored AssaultArmored Assault.

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1 hour ago, Fliits said:

It's almost as if the nerfs on Sonya, Hanzo and Genji aren't actually doing anything to weaken the characters...

Afaik Sonya's recent string of nerfs are still reverted, intentionally or not I'm not sure, otherwise I'd think Maiev edges her out. Hanzo is definitely nowhere near as oppressive as he was but mobility & constant poke & good ults & vision & pve and pvp burst damage still makes a contested pick. As far as Genji is concerned I've just started taking Uther against him or Haymaker Muradin so he can go mada mada out of my face.  

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Maiev is just insane. She has everything that makes a hero good:

damage - strong AA damage and the reset mechanic of Q

survivability - having an 8s cd Ice Block with one of the highest health pool out of all assassins

utility - her W and heroics

mobility - her E

scouting - her E

waveclear - her Q, W and E are all AOE damage

jungling - can solo camps quite fast

Even if Blizzard decide to increase her trait's cd to 30s, she would still be op because of how much she can do. She's essentially a better Genji while he's already one of the best hero right now. She deserves a tier for herself. (called it Maiev Tier or God Tier or something)

Enough ranting. Let's talk about the tier list now.

I definitely agree that Blaze should be in Core Tier now that people find out his true potential as either a main tank or a solo laner, and the versatility of bunker. Besides, double tank comps are quite popular in HGC recently, and Blaze is one of the best tank for these compa because of his waveclear and self-sustain.

Some heroes shine against the double tank comps, particularly Leoroc and Tychus, and have seen much more plays on HGC recently. They both deal percentage damage that can deal significant amount of damage to tanks, and they are relatively resilient. Tychus has risen a tier, and I expect the same for Leoric as well. 

Malfurion is one of the strongest contender for Prime Tier among supports now. He synergizes really well with fragile mobile assassins like Tracer and Genji since they need 'constant healing' (reference to the Genji guide btw Kappa) - just cast a Q on them and they're free to go for 20s. He also counters these heroes with Twilight Dream as well. Not to mention his versatility enables him to fit into most if not all teams.

With double support comps being murdered by the nerf hammer, semi-supports like Tyrande and Tassader have very little place in the current meta. Tassader can at least clear waves and make Tracer a pain in the ass, but Tyrande? She can't do anything to make her worth picking over most range assassins (aside from that fucking annoying nuke - I mean owl). She absolutely don't deserve to be placed higher than Tassader at least.

Overall, this is a really good tier list. Keep up the good work and wish you all happy Lunar New Year. 

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Warriors:

Blaze - yup, he should be core, if not prime, for as long as Bunker is not nerfed.

Tyrael - I have to agree, though I still believe that in the right hands, on a pro level, he is amazing.

Assassins:

Tracer - with Malfurion being core/prime, shouldn't she jump to core as well? Especially now with so many squishes and solo-support meta?

Supports:

Brightwing - core? She does quite poor now, so I'm surprised.

Edited by Mortalo

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5 hours ago, SleepySheepy said:

And I still don't get, what's VIABLE about Hammer? She is sub 50% now, among least played heroes and very easily countered.

I absolutely meant to reconsider her position, but just... forgot. I'll give her a (-) for now as I think she's slightly underrated, and try to get some playtime on her.

1 hour ago, ShadowerDerek said:

I definitely agree that Blaze should be in Core Tier now that people find out his true potential as either a main tank or a solo laner, and the versatility of bunker. Besides, double tank comps are quite popular in HGC recently, and Blaze is one of the best tank for these compa because of his waveclear and self-sustain.

Very possible. I'll (+) him.

25 minutes ago, Mortalo said:

Tracer - with Malfurion being core/prime, shouldn't she jump to core as well? Especially now with so many squishes and solo-support meta?

Depends. She's powerful but remains highly countered by Genji and Hanzo. If both are banned, she becomes oppressive.

25 minutes ago, Mortalo said:

Brightwing - core? She does quite poor now, so I'm surprised.

One of the people I frequently play with plays her quite a bit, and results have been good. Of course, I try to avoid anecdotal evidence, but she remains top 2 overall in winrates, and top 3 in diamond+.

1 hour ago, ShadowerDerek said:

Tyrande? She can't do anything to make her worth picking over most range assassins (aside from that fucking annoying nuke - I mean owl). She absolutely don't deserve to be placed higher than Tassader at least.

I think she's a sleeper.

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5 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

I absolutely meant to reconsider her position, but just... forgot. I'll give her a (-) for now as I think she's slightly underrated, and try to get some playtime on her.

The thing about Hammer is that, if you don't have a long range hard-engage, or a long range piercing spell (I mean spells that cannot be blocked), you just lose. Yes, you just lose. Hammer will just keep destroying your structures and you cannot do anything about it, either because you cannot get pass her frontline, or she knocks you away with her ridiculously long knock back distance of her concussion blast after you exhaust your gap-closer to pass through her frontline.

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4 minutes ago, ShadowerDerek said:

The thing about Hammer is that, if you don't have a long range hard-engage, or a long range piercing spell (I mean spells that cannot be blocked), you just lose. Yes, you just lose. Hammer will just keep destroying your structures and you cannot do anything about it, either because you cannot get pass her frontline, or she knocks you away with her ridiculously long knock back distance of her concussion blast after you exhaust your gap-closer to pass through her frontline.

Correct. Also: Orbital BFGOrbital BFG is disgusting and exists.

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I've said it time and time again, as a main tank, especially as a solo tank in solo queue, a good Sgt Hammer is virtually one of the only heroes I'm scared of. The Mei of HotS. Until we get Mei in HotS, anyway. 

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38 minutes ago, ShadowerDerek said:

The thing about Hammer is that, if you don't have a long range hard-engage, or a long range piercing spell (I mean spells that cannot be blocked), you just lose. Yes, you just lose. Hammer will just keep destroying your structures and you cannot do anything about it, either because you cannot get pass her frontline, or she knocks you away with her ridiculously long knock back distance of her concussion blast after you exhaust your gap-closer to pass through her frontline.

But just about any hero above Viable tier besides Malthael has tools to poke her. Li Ming, Jaina, Junkie, etc. Not to mention burst potential or chase potential of Greymane and Genji.

She is exactly Niche Tier, specifically designed to punish composition with mediocre range + bad engage.

33 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

Correct. Also: Orbital BFGOrbital BFG is disgusting and exists.

Oh yes, that cheese BS. When QM MM gives you team that has above mentioned comp so you can't threaten their team, so after level 20 you just have 5-10 minutes long "Defeat" screen...

Edited by SleepySheepy
Clarification.

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I really like that you separated the Varian builds, but I must say I'm surprised how low you put  Twin Blades of FuryTwin Blades of Fury. I agree he's not great, but I'd put him in a spot similar to Butcher: weak early game and very vulnerable to blinds and CC, but able to rip apart teams under the right circumstances. On top of that, he offers Sonya-level dueling and camp-clearing abilities.

My take might be skewed somewhat by the fact I'm fairly certain he works best at lower MMR, but I'd put him at Viable.

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15 minutes ago, Peaches9 said:

I really like that you separated the Varian builds, but I must say I'm surprised how low you put  Twin Blades of FuryTwin Blades of Fury. I agree he's not great, but I'd put him in a spot similar to Butcher: weak early game and very vulnerable to blinds and CC, but able to rip apart teams under the right circumstances. On top of that, he offers Sonya-level dueling and camp-clearing abilities.

My take might be skewed somewhat by the fact I'm fairly certain he works best at lower MMR, but I'd put him at Viable.

I'm certainly open to re-evaluating it, though I'd rather compare him to Illidan. Butcher scales much harder and has a "you-die-now" button which turns into a potential win condition through SlaughterhouseSlaughterhouse. That's really valuable to have on your carry.

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13 hours ago, Valhalen said:

I've always believed in Blaze's potential from the moment I saw his spotlight. He is currently one of my mains in the Warrior class, and his self-sustain and utility are very strong. He can potentially solo bosses with the right build. Also, his kit also synergizes very well with Maiev's (Oil SpillOil Spill + Jet PropulsionJet PropulsionCombustionCombustion + Umbral BindUmbral Bind + Warden's CageWarden's Cage), who is currently a Prime.

With Maiev being on Prime, I strongly believe that ETC will maintain his position in Prime, as they have an absurdly powerful synergy thanks to Mosh PitMosh Pit and Block PartyBlock Party (the latter is perfect for a Physical Build Maiev because it increases the uptime of Armored AssaultArmored Assault).

Alexstrasza could also see a rise in my eyes as well when paired with Maiev, as Flame BuffetFlame Buffet is fantastic to push people away from Umbral BindUmbral Bind, and she can also bestow armor to her allies thanks to Tough LoveTough Love, which again, increases the uptime of Maiev's Armored AssaultArmored Assault.

Me too. When you look at his kit, he has a stun and slows, that can be talented into attack speed debuff. Thats basically like Muradin. So i always thought he was more of a solo tank then a bruiser. 

Dont forget that Alexstrasza is the perfect hero for Bonds of CorruptionBonds of Corruption because unlike Tassadars ArchonArchon, her basic attacks in DragonqueenDragonqueen deal physical dmg. 
 

10 hours ago, Oxygen said:

Correct. Also: Orbital BFGOrbital BFG is disgusting and exists

Not to mention, anything that does AoE physical dmg is good with Maiev her ulti is now easier to hit too. 

Why isnt Cassia core tier yet? Bonds of CorruptionBonds of Corruption + Naisha's MementoNaisha's Memento + Charged StrikesCharged Strikes. Her synergy with Maiev who is in prime is just too good.
 

12 hours ago, ShadowerDerek said:

Malfurion is one of the strongest contender for Prime Tier among supports now. He synergizes really well with fragile mobile assassins like Tracer and Genji since they need 'constant healing' (reference to the Genji guide btw Kappa) - just cast a Q on them and they're free to go for 20s. He also counters these heroes with Twilight Dream as well. Not to mention his versatility enables him to fit into most if not all teams.

I seriously dont get why i would i want to pick Malfurion when i can just pick Lucio. Twilight DreamTwilight Dream is great, yeah but thats about all. 


Valeera in niche again. Dont get why. Her recent buffs made her quite more useful and better in dealing dmg. And right now, Valeera can kill better then both Nova and Zeratul which are a tier higher then her. Zeratul comes witha quite a bit of versatility with him. But Nova is basically just a stealthed Poke hero. Valeera has Silence, longest Blind in the game(if talented into)(blinds counter Maiev, if you she focuses on Maiev she can pretty much deny her every Umbral BindUmbral Bind attempt, not to mention she is immune to it herself because of her low cd heroic. She also has the fastest/strongest late game quick burst combo from them all with Seal FateSeal Fate(180+370+285+370 (in lvl 1 scale) in like 2 second). Junkrat, Falstad, Li Ming, Valla,  Alexstrasza, Malfurion, Stukov, Sylvanas. These are all great targets for Valeera and they are in Core tier. 
Not to mention shes good againts Hanzo, Genji, Greymane and Maiev too which are prime tier.

Tassadar with his Prismatic LinkPrismatic Link should work very well with Bonds of CorruptionBonds of Corruption too. 
Also dont understand Probius in niche. With Maiev in prime he shouldnt be goind down in tiers lol.
 

Edited by xevex
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1 hour ago, xevex said:

I seriously dont get why i would i want to pick Malfurion when i can just pick Lucio. Twilight DreamTwilight Dream is great, yeah but thats about all. 

That's why I'm rating Lucio higher.

1 hour ago, xevex said:

Valeera in niche again. Dont get why. Her recent buffs made her quite more useful and better in dealing dmg. And right now, Valeera can kill better then both Nova and Zeratul which are a tier higher then her.

Versatility goes a long way in unorganized play.

1 hour ago, xevex said:

Also dont understand Probius in niche. With Maiev in prime he shouldnt be goind down in tiers lol.

Maiev, Hanzo, and Genji all do well against Probius.

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7 hours ago, Oxygen said:

Versatility goes a long way in unorganized play.

Still, Valeera does better against most Prime tier and Core tier heroes. She shouldnt be in niche. Her waveclear isnt the best but its service-able. Shes also quite tanky unlike Zeratul. 
Not to mention Zeratul loses a lot of his mobility/burst dmg when he decides do go with his PvE built. 

7 hours ago, Oxygen said:

That's why I'm rating Lucio higher.

I think hes OP. lol He heals a ton while hes relatively easy to play. His heroic lets you just ignore dmg for 6 seconds. I recently bought the bundle that included him and having a blast with him. 

Edited by xevex

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On 14/2/2018 at 3:55 PM, Plergoth said:

Afaik Sonya's recent string of nerfs are still reverted, intentionally or not I'm not sure, otherwise I'd think Maiev edges her out. Hanzo is definitely nowhere near as oppressive as he was but mobility & constant poke & good ults & vision & pve and pvp burst damage still makes a contested pick. As far as Genji is concerned I've just started taking Uther against him or Haymaker Muradin so he can go mada mada out of my face.  

Shi-mada mada

Kinda surprised to see Malthael (after the recent nerfs) and Varian (he wasn't buffed recently if memory serves and Garrosh despite his nerfs is still being called Varian 2.0) that high. Also, Tyrael is fairly low imho, he's still pretty much perma ban/pick in HGC (and I'm afraid he's gonna get nerfed to oblivion AGAIN because of that and revert back to just being there for his Heroics and Holy GroundHoly Ground )

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18 hours ago, Oxygen said:

I'm certainly open to re-evaluating it, though I'd rather compare him to Illidan. Butcher scales much harder and has a "you-die-now" button which turns into a potential win condition through SlaughterhouseSlaughterhouse. That's really valuable to have on your carry.

That's a good point; I agree Illidan makes for a better comparison. That being said, I'd like to hear your reasoning for putting Illidan a tier higher (I don't necessarily disagree with that, I'm just curious). The way I see it, Illidan makes for a stronger split pusher due to better waveclear and The HuntThe Hunt, not to mention being way more useful pre-10, while Varian can fill a better bruiser role in teamfights due to his soft CC and much higher durability.

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4 hours ago, SteveFrost said:

Kinda surprised to see Malthael (after the recent nerfs) and Varian (he wasn't buffed recently if memory serves and Garrosh despite his nerfs is still being called Varian 2.0) that high. Also, Tyrael is fairly low imho, he's still pretty much perma ban/pick in HGC (and I'm afraid he's gonna get nerfed to oblivion AGAIN because of that and revert back to just being there for his Heroics and Holy GroundHoly Ground )

I read someone's analysis, CriticKitten's metagame statistics breakdown I think,  and regarding Malthael, I agreed with them; it's easier for him to apply his trait to more targets quickly and deal with merc camps faster and earlier as well. 

I think Tyrael's win rates are reflective of how tricky he is to play efficiently without burning mana and cooldowns needlessly, as well as how relatively vulnerable he can be as a tank caught off guard. 

 

2 hours ago, Peaches9 said:

I'd like to hear your reasoning for putting Illidan a tier higher

Abathur has something to do with it, I would wager. Illidan also thrives on being able to mercilessly harass squishy and mobile carries such as Hanzo. If I get this right I'm going to buy myself a bottle of Pepsi Max Cherry! 

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Malthael is still a badass. That said, he cuts down tanks in team fights less but kills squishies more easily, which makes Last Rites grab more cooldown stacks. And Die Alone is surprisingly still effective due to the scatter affect team fights can have. Just have to use the new short duration of mark to your advantage. Avoid mark duration talent and Die Alone can be taken. Adjust your basic cleave angles and you're good. Wave clear is now super easy which also impacts things.

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