Jump to content
FORUMS
Oxygen

Genji Patch Meta Tier List (April 2017)

Recommended Posts

29440-probius-patch-meta-tier-list-march

We present our fifth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier List for the Genji patch of April 2017.

Welcome to Icy Veins's Meta Tier List for the Genji patch. The goal if of this list is to try and detail game's current metagame state. The prime goal of such lists is to inform players regarding popular and trending team composition drafting strategies (i.e. the drafting metagame). Although tier listings are generally the product of balance, many factors come into play when discussing the relative perceived strengths of heroes, including player regions, maps, play style, skill level, and, of course, personal perception. As such, any tier list - including this very one - should never be interpreted as gospel, but rather, as a guide to better grasp what to expect with regards to typical drafting experiences. One useful application of such lists is to allow you know which heroes to look out for in terms of practice and counterplay, ultimately improving your knowledge of the game.

Using the list

As stated above, tier lists are easy to mistake for gospel. As new strategies are discovered and experimented with, so changes the perception of the relative strengths of each hero. Tier lists still prove to be useful as a snapshot of player expectations in terms of drafting. Although it is generally considered preferable to focus on high tier heroes (Prime and Core tiers), it is important to note that Heroes of the Storm's wild character and map designs make it so that any given hero's tier position is prone to fluctuate depending on the situation at hand.

One classic example of such is that of Kerrigan on the Infernal Shrines map. Although we currently judge her to be a mid-tier hero, her drafting priority shoots up to first-pick or first-ban material on this specific map due to the nature of its objective. Certain heroes also synergise so well with each other that the sole fact of having the opportunity of drafting them together is generally enough to increase their potential. Tassadar and Tracer, for instance, are generally nightmarish to deal with for many. There are too many examples of these interactions to reasonably produce here, but we invite you to consult our guides to know exactly where and when each hero shines. The guides have been linked in the lists below for your convenience - just click any of the hero names to access them.

If you're newer to the game, also consider visiting our glossary for a comprehensive list of discrete Heroes of the Storm terms.

Additionally, a + or - sign (or several of them) indicates short-to-medium term predictions (which is to say, about a month) for tier increase(s) or decrease(s), respectively. These may be updated after significant balance patches and/or when clear trends are emerging.

 

Prime Tier

-

Prime tier heroes are considered to be extremely strong in all situations, and show no obvious weakness. They are very often banned or picked right away, as they generally dictate the pace of most matches.

 

Core Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Anub'arak Falstad Lúcio Nazeebo
Arthas+ Gul'dan Malfurion Sylvanas
Dehaka Li-Ming Rehgar Probius↑↑
Diablo Ragnaros Uther↑↑  
Artanis Samuro    
Johanna Thrall    
Sonya Valla    
Varian (Tank) Zeratul    
Zarya      
Muradin      

Core tier heroes are strong in a wide variety of situations and have few counter-picking possibility. They should form the core of your team, and be picked after Prime Tier heroes have been distributed.

 

Viable Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Chen Alarak Auriel Azmodan
E.T.C. Chromie Brightwing Gazlowe
Leoric Genji (new) Kharazim  
Rexxar Greymane+ Li Li  
   Jaina Lt. Morales  
  Kael'thas Tassadar  
  Kerrigan    
  Lunara    
  Raynor    
  The Butcher    
  Valeera    
  Varian (Damage)    
  Zul'jin    

Viable tier heroes are generally well-rounded that have either fallen out of favour, or, inversely, are on the rise in popularity, due to the current Prime tier contenders.

 

Niche tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Cho'gall Cassia (new) Tyrande+ Abathur
Stitches Cho'gall   Medivh
Tyrael Illidan   Murky
  Nova   Sgt. Hammer
  Tracer   The Lost Vikings
  Tychus   Xul
      Zagara

Niche tier heroes have niche application on certain maps or for certain team compositions. They are generally picked to "round out" your team composition when your team composition is missing out on key components, such as a "jungler" (mercenary camps), a solo laner, or solid waveclear.

 

Bottom Tier

-

Bottom tier Heroes are deemed to be either considerably weaker than the majority of other Heroes, or much more challenging to play properly. Although they may situationally shine, these Heroes are generally avoided by most players.

 

Monthly metagame assessment

It seems I'll have to remove two tiers for our next tier list because the game is probably in the most balanced state it's ever been. Here's to hoping it'll last because such states are great for experimenting with team compositions without feeling like you're missing out on picking or banning that one overpowered guy. What might be the cause of such a state, though? On one hand Blizzard has been (relatively) steady with the nerfs. On the other hand - and I feel this is the most important reason here - there has been an overload of e-sports, notably with HGC, to teach players how to draft.

There isn't all that much to say today, so I'll go over the new heroes and some of the more notable bounces. Cassia's a good pick against melee-assassin-heavy team compositions, especially if your team is running their own blinding effects for that extra synergy, but she doesn't really fit in a meta that's looking to be defined by warriors and supports. This is mostly due to her limited sustained damage and keen vulnerability to crowd control. Niche tier.

Genji's looking balanced to me, though he is very difficult to play well, and tends to be quite counterable. On top of this, since he's an Overwatch fanboy favourite, I think his win rates are going to start out really low until we have braved the initial wave of juvenile excitement that drowns him. It should be noted that two of the heroes he does really well against - Tracer and Tychus - are both out of meta themselves, meaning he might not find a place until they do. With abysmal waveclear and mercenary camp claiming, I can't really justify picking him over some of the other melee assassins. Still a good Genji is a good Genji, and the hero's surprisingly fun. Viable tier, barely.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really interesting to see everything seem to be falling in line. I would say the game is really well balanced right now with picks only being truly "trash" depending on comp and situation. (looking at you Nova...)

I would argue Arthas is prime tier, since you always need a tank and he is amazing for solo lane, team fight, securing picks, engage, sustain..... really just everything right now.

I would also argue Tassadar fell too far, he is still amazing if your team is willing to run that style comp. Vision, brutal choke point damage, and negation for high priority targets is so good. Just treat him more like a specialist than a support and he really excels.

Fantastic work as always, hope we can have some good discussion about the meta... Wish more of my teams would look at this and stop running triple back line comps. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Game's not balanced.blizzard should think about lost viks because they are still dead n nobody picks them on hl or even qm not because every hero can kill them even with basic attacks! Blizzard should improve them specially their healtha because I saw Valeera who takes 2seconds for her to kill them : stun+one of levels

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope Sgt. Hammer gets a buff or a rework soon. It was my first hero I bought, and I used to play her a lot, before I started playing a bit more competitively, which forced me not to pick her because of her low power-level. 
Nice tier list, Oxy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MZLICH said:

Game's not balanced.blizzard should think about lost viks because they are still dead n nobody picks them on hl or even qm not because every hero can kill them even with basic attacks! Blizzard should improve them specially their healtha because I saw Valeera who takes 2seconds for her to kill them : stun+one of levels

Game isn't balanced because of one hero? 

Anyway, Vikings were always like that and it's good that they are; 3 heroes with 3 different things about them plus the way they can apply lane pressure to all lanes during an objective? Yeah you might lose objective but then you have one hell of an exp boost. Many heroes burst them down anyway; Jaina, Zeratul, Valeera, Nova; which is why they are called counter-picks. 

 

Nice tier list as usual. Surprised Arthas isn't Prime tier but I guess he wouldn't be totally all-rounded perfect for it yet ;3

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised Genji is not on Prime Tier; he is one slippery motherfucker that is hard to hit due his mobility and deflect, and deals a lot of damage. Sure, during Team Fights he is easy to kill if focused, but can still disrupt the backline. Maybe this comment comes from someone who mainly plays Support, so I tend to be everyone's favorite target.

Anyway, the Tier List looks really good. Like many commented, I'm surprised Arthas is not on Prime Tier; he has finally become the true bruiser he was always meant to be. I'm also surprised Artanis dropped from Prime Tier as well. I'm very happy with Uther and Probius placement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to agree that the game feels quite balanced overall, I think most people know that Arthas is strong, but there are plenty of maps where I will take another tanky warrior (or even bruiser) and more people are becoming wiser as to how to beat him (kite him and mobility buffs making his icy umbrella less useful). 

I'm banning globals more often than anything else atm though, and while I love playing Dehaka, avoid picking him as people still think he is a good solo tank >.<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, can I ask why Probius is in core tier? I get that he's got excellent zoning and siege skills but I feel he's still falling short somewhat whenever I play or see others play him (unless its the other team, case of yours vs ours meme xD) . Perhaps I'm being an absolute nub with him and failing to understand his role but if someone could explain, great ;3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, MurkyFelix said:

Actually, can I ask why Probius is in core tier? I get that he's got excellent zoning and siege skills but I feel he's still falling short somewhat whenever I play or see others play him.

He is probably borderline core. At worst he's viable.

I would argue he is core just because his zoning is so incredibly strong and consistent. It has the zoning of most heroics (phoenix and Hyperion come to mind), but without the cool down. Every map has areas where that just makes the game so much easier (boss fight, collection objective, retreating). Combine that with consistent vision through pylons and an ultimate that is amazing for both fighting and disengage. He does take playing properly, which is what I think knocks him close to viable, but his late game is just so good it doesn't matter.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Laragon said:

He is probably borderline core. At worst he's viable.

I would argue he is core just because his zoning is so incredibly strong and consistent. It has the zoning of most heroics (phoenix and Hyperion come to mind), but without the cool down. Every map has areas where that just makes the game so much easier (boss fight, collection objective, retreating). Combine that with consistent vision through pylons and an ultimate that is amazing for both fighting and disengage. He does take playing properly, which is what I think knocks him close to viable, but his late game is just so good it doesn't matter.

Indeed. In the right hands, Probius is extremely powerful. He just need the proper team to protect him while he makes his setups. Zarya and/or Tassadar have great synergy with him, for instance.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/27/2017 at 8:15 PM, MZLICH said:

Game's not balanced.blizzard should think about lost viks because they are still dead n nobody picks them on hl or even qm not because every hero can kill them even with basic attacks! Blizzard should improve them specially their healtha because I saw Valeera who takes 2seconds for her to kill them : stun+one of levels

@MZLICH I totally agree with you. Lost Viks used to be viable until more heroes started to appear in the game and honestly the most recent patch makes the vikings even weaker because so many characters can pick off each Viking so quick and it's pretty frustrating. Leaving the Vikings out of the picture, then yes, this meta is definitely the most balanced I have seen in a while. But, again I totally agree with you when you said the Viks need a buff. BLIZZARD PLEASE!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vikings (along with many champs in niche tier) are certainly on the weaker side, but to use that to say the game isn't balanced is a joke. Chess has nearly identical sides and has been getting rules updates for about 1500 years, and one side still has a measureable advantage. The idea that to call a game balanced every hero must be viable for competetive play is a joke.

/rant

@Oxygen continuing to be a strong list. While I agree that no one is in the "needs immediate nerfs" or the "unplayable until buffs" groups, I think you should keep posting them; the possibility of someone slipping into them will always be there and without them people may get the idea that niche heros are "bottom tier" or that core heroes are "must pick"

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, OrangeCase said:

But, again I totally agree with you when you said the Viks need a buff. BLIZZARD PLEASE!

If I'm not wrong Blizzard once said they were pondering tampering with new possibilities for TLV in the future. Like giving them a rework and allow for builds where they are stronger together as opposed to split-pushing. But they won't mess with TLV so soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Added predictions for Arthas and Greymane. In a nutshell: +.


Thanks to everyone for the comments and feedback, as per usual.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Valhalen said:

builds where they are stronger together as opposed to split-pushing.

I really hope this becomes a reality - I had high hopes for TLV but the split pushing game isn't my taste at all. I like the idea of using multiple mini-heroes in unison - setting up baits and ganks for yourself, for example, or taking advantage of certain teammate synergies like aoe heal effects.

 

Even as is though, they may be near the bottom of the niche category but they are far from unplayable. Against a good TLV players it can feel like the enemy is everywhere at once and it can be hard to get out from under that.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Voltorocks said:

I really hope this becomes a reality - I had high hopes for TLV but the split pushing game isn't my taste at all. I like the idea of using multiple mini-heroes in unison - setting up baits and ganks for yourself, for example, or taking advantage of certain teammate synergies like aoe heal effects.

Oh yes, I want this so much. TLV were the very first hero I bought, but I didn't play them much because of how hard it is to use them; I couldn't get used to it at all.

Sadly, they are one of the many Heroes that are hard to balance, because it is so easy to make them overpowered. I hope Blizzard revisit them soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/28/2017 at 6:54 AM, Valhalen said:

I'm surprised Genji is not on Prime Tier; he is one slippery motherfucker that is hard to hit due his mobility and deflect, and deals a lot of damage. Sure, during Team Fights he is easy to kill if focused, but can still disrupt the backline. Maybe this comment comes from someone who mainly plays Support, so I tend to be everyone's favorite target.

Anyway, the Tier List looks really good. Like many commented, I'm surprised Arthas is not on Prime Tier; he has finally become the true bruiser he was always meant to be. I'm also surprised Artanis dropped from Prime Tier as well. I'm very happy with Uther and Probius placement.

He's a pain for a tank to deal with.  I was playing with ETC one of the few times I've used him since his nerfs, and there was a Genji on the other team.  He keeps diving directly onto the backline and he jukes almost every powerslide I throw at him.  I was typing in frustration at that point, "How the heck do you peel this guy?"  But hopefully that's just the frustration of learning how to counter a new hero.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised at where you have Uther.  I have played around with him and I'm having a tough time making him work as a solo support.  The biggest issue I have with him is that the cooldowns on his heals feel unforgiving.  You hit the W, wait two seconds, hit the Q, and then you have no heals for 9-10 seconds.  It gets better once you reach level 13 with Blessed Champion, but most enemies are happy to jump on a support that enters melee range and shut you down with crowd control, so you don't get much value from those 5 seconds after holy light.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, FirstBlood said:

He's a pain for a tank to deal with.  I was playing with ETC one of the few times I've used him since his nerfs, and there was a Genji on the other team.  He keeps diving directly onto the backline and he jukes almost every powerslide I throw at him.  I was typing in frustration at that point, "How the heck do you peel this guy?"  But hopefully that's just the frustration of learning how to counter a new hero.

As a healer, or rather, as an Auriel main, it is extremely hard to deal with. But what I've learned so far is that the idea to combat Genji is to bait him to use his Reflect so you can bombard him. It just takes one stun to kill Genji; the problem is stunning him in the first place.

29 minutes ago, FirstBlood said:

I'm surprised at where you have Uther.  I have played around with him and I'm having a tough time making him work as a solo support.  The biggest issue I have with him is that the cooldowns on his heals feel unforgiving.  You hit the W, wait two seconds, hit the Q, and then you have no heals for 9-10 seconds.  It gets better once you reach level 13 with Blessed Champion, but most enemies are happy to jump on a support that enters melee range and shut you down with crowd control, so you don't get much value from those 5 seconds after holy light.

I've been fighting with and against Uther and he is awesome now. Sure, his cooldowns are very high, but he also heals a ton, and the extra armor from his revised Trait add an extra layer of survivability that kinda compensates the long cooldown. All in all, I think Uther is best suited in matches where you have another healer that can heal in more regular basis where Uther deals with the burst healing. Li Li works wonders with him, but I think Auriel is a better pairing since she can AoE heal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FirstBlood said:

I'm surprised at where you have Uther.  I have played around with him and I'm having a tough time making him work as a solo support.  The biggest issue I have with him is that the cooldowns on his heals feel unforgiving.  You hit the W, wait two seconds, hit the Q, and then you have no heals for 9-10 seconds.  It gets better once you reach level 13 with Blessed Champion, but most enemies are happy to jump on a support that enters melee range and shut you down with crowd control, so you don't get much value from those 5 seconds after holy light.

Uther is about ending fight quickly, or making sure they don't end quickly for your team. Handing out armor like candy is deceptively strong, and also why the guide recommends whatever build I recommended there. I'd say he's a lot better in coordinated play, however, because people know better how to hard engage and avoid poke, two things that really help him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/3/2017 at 6:31 PM, Oxygen said:

 I'd say he's a lot better in coordinated play, however, because people know better how to hard engage and avoid poke, two things that really help him.

this, very much. definitely one of those heroes that suffers a lot when you say "I'm gonna try him out in QM and see how strong he is now" - the answer is that generally is he's really bad in QM. in the flex bruiser/support spot that Zarya alone has been filling recently in a lot of strong drafts, he really shines.

Edited by Voltorocks
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/30/2017 at 6:38 PM, Valhalen said:

Oh yes, I want this so much. TLV were the very first hero I bought, but I didn't play them much because of how hard it is to use them; I couldn't get used to it at all.

Sadly, they are one of the many Heroes that are hard to balance, because it is so easy to make them overpowered. I hope Blizzard revisit them soon.

I actually just leveled them to 5.  They are certainly had to play and VERY map specific (pretty much limited to just Cursed Hollow,  Warhead Junction, and the new OW based map), but they pretty much ensure no matter how badly the early game goes, you won't be behind in XP.

TLVs main problem is the same as Aba: You're basically committing to 5v4 teamfights until late in the game, where they actually have some decent damage potential (enough to take out a lone assassin who gets careless).  This makes maps with contestable objectives hard for TLV to play well, as any XP gain they gain is offset by the map objective.  Outside of the three aforementioned maps, I'd never recommend them.

The root problem is if you make them any better then a niche map pick, they'll quickly be overpowered.  Maybe if Blizz creates more passive maps you could justify them more.  The OW map is actually an EXCELLENT map for them, as they count as three escorting heroes for the payload, allowing easier contests of the other teams.  More maps like that, and they could shine.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, gamerk2 said:

I actually just leveled them to 5.  They are certainly had to play and VERY map specific (pretty much limited to just Cursed Hollow,  Warhead Junction, and the new OW based map), but they pretty much ensure no matter how badly the early game goes, you won't be behind in XP.

TLVs main problem is the same as Aba: You're basically committing to 5v4 teamfights until late in the game, where they actually have some decent damage potential (enough to take out a lone assassin who gets careless).  This makes maps with contestable objectives hard for TLV to play well, as any XP gain they gain is offset by the map objective.  Outside of the three aforementioned maps, I'd never recommend them.

The root problem is if you make them any better then a niche map pick, they'll quickly be overpowered.  Maybe if Blizz creates more passive maps you could justify them more.  The OW map is actually an EXCELLENT map for them, as they count as three escorting heroes for the payload, allowing easier contests of the other teams.  More maps like that, and they could shine.

Very well said. I thin Blizz did make mention of a small upcoming rework for them. Their last rework felt very rushed, though I did like some aspects of it. Their talents certainly need to be revisited.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/29/2017 at 10:46 AM, MurkyFelix said:

Actually, can I ask why Probius is in core tier? I get that he's got excellent zoning and siege skills but I feel he's still falling short somewhat whenever I play or see others play him (unless its the other team, case of yours vs ours meme xD) . Perhaps I'm being an absolute nub with him and failing to understand his role but if someone could explain, great ;3

 

A lot of people play either just Bots or QM, and don't really see the power of Proby with teammates who keep him alive. Think of him like Dr. Doom,  given enough prep time, every tower will be obliterated. Plus he gets an earlier wave clear than Sylvannas. He racks up exp faster than every other specialist except Hammer.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, gamerk2 said:

This makes maps with contestable objectives hard for TLV to play well, as any XP gain they gain is offset by the map objective.  Outside of the three aforementioned maps, I'd never recommend them.

The root problem is if you make them any better then a niche map pick, they'll quickly be overpowered.

This post nailed TLV right on the head. personally I think right now they could use a *slight* tune-up without becoming overpowered, but I think it's inherent to their design that they should forever be relegated to niche map pick.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Stan
      Wonder William has been removed and we have the Footman Varian Skin Pack available for 675 Gems this week.
      Hero Sales
      Heroes Old Price New Price Arthas 625 Gems 312 Gems Greymane 625 Gems 312 Gems Johanna 500 Gems 250 Gems Skins
      Footman Varian Skin Pack is on sale for 675 Gems. The following skins are included:
      Stormwind Footman Varian Stromgarde Footman Varian Kul Tiras Footman Varian
      Latest Heroes of the Storm News
      Icy Heroes App for Heroes of the Storm Free Hero Rotation: Week of February 25th Internal Data Usage and Balance Patches
    • By Stan
      We've developed a Heroes of the Storm helper app in collaboration with Overwolf that is powered by our guides. The app is called Icy Heroes and is currently in beta testing. It detects the Heroes on both teams, gives you talent recommendations based on your chosen build, and it's completely FREE! 
      Table of Contents 
      Introduction How to Get Started Introduction 
      We at Icy Veins are excited to bring you our Heroes of the Storm helper app developed in collaboration with Overwolf called Icy Heroes.
      The app will detect the Hero you choose at the start of the match, give you build suggestions, and notify you which talent to pick while playing.
      The Home screen displays Global Stats and win rates of all Heroes. We gather data about win rates, picked/banned Heroes, and hope to make use of this data in the future to help you during the draft to pick and ban Heroes.

      The Heroes tab has all the Heroes listed alphabetically based on their roles (Tanks, Bruisers, Ranged Assassins, Melee Assassins, Supports, Healers).

      The app is powered by guides taken directly from our site and each Hero comes with a basic overview, abilities list, recommended builds list, talents discussion, and useful tips & tricks to help you become a better player!

      The Current Game tab provides quick access to all Heroes currently in-game, allowing you to look up information about them without opening a browser.

      [Return to Top]
      How to Get Started 
      Click here to download Icy Heroes and launch the app; Launch Heroes of the Storm; Pick a Game Mode and start a match. The app will automatically detect your chosen Hero as well as Heroes on both teams. After loading into the game, you will be prompted with a screen and muss press Alt+F to pick the desired build for your Hero.

      The app will automatically suggest talent recommendations based on the build you have chosen.

      You can bring up the app at any time or make it disappear by pressing Alt+F.
      Note that the app is still in beta, and we're looking forward to your feedback and suggestions!
      Download Icy Heroes Now
      [Return to Top]
      We present to you Icy Heroes, the Heroes of the Storm helper app.
    • By Stan
      The free Hero rotation has been updated for the week of February 25.
      Free-to-Play Hero Rotation: Week of February 25, 2020
      Alexstrasza Deathwing Greymane Jaina Leoric Muradin Nazeebo Qhira Raynor Sonya Tassadar Uther Varian Yrel Latest Heroes of the Storm News
      Internal Data Usage and Balance Patches Heroes of the Storm Balance Update Patch Notes: February 12th Weekly Brawl - Lost Cavern: Week of February 21st
    • By Stan
      Heroes' Live Designer Adam Jackson explains how the team uses internal data for balancing decisions to give players more insight into all the different areas that affect the decision-making process when making changes to a specific Hero.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Dear developers & testers,
      In your balance patches you often write notes that refer to internal data gathered by you when explaining a balance change or talents change.
      I would appreciate it if you provided an example of how the data are organized of a talent or a hero and how different categories of data are given weight to push into a change decision.
      For example if we chose illidan’s “Friend or foe” talent , and I am going to assume that data is collected from all game modes, do you have a system of point allocation depending on the rating of the player ? , Is team’s composition are taken into consideration ? Or is it just simple statistics of pick & win rates over all game modes & ranks ?
      Your answer and example will help us to better understand how you evaluate a talent or a hero before changing something & perhaps lower the ranting rates against every balance change and lower the differences in opinions between players a bit about heroes and talents balance wise.
      Thank you for your time & effort.
      I’m not going to give away everything, but I can answer this question.
      We get raw data on basically everything that’s happening in the game across all modes based on win/pick rate, as well as things like damage dealt/taken etc.
      We are able to parse through this data to look at it through many lenses. This is where raw statistics become less useful and the skill and experience of a designer come into play more so that we can draw meaningful conclusions from the data, and decide what changes we want to make based on the results.
      To get a full picture of what’s going on in the game, for example, I can and do look at things like win/loss data that’s filtered by different leagues and game modes. I can also see hero pick and ban popularity with this kind of granularity, which lets me see, for example, what the meta is looking like in the Bronze - Silver range as well as the Diamond - GM range.
      While incredibly useful, I want to emphasize that it’s not just the raw data that’s important, but also having the game knowledge and experience to make correct conclusions based on the knowledge. This is something that’s a lot more esoteric, and there are often multiple right and wrong answers, which can and often does lead to a lot of debate within the design team and with the playerbase at large.
      As an example, let’s say that you’re the designer and your job is to evaluate Samuro in the next balance patch with these facts (I made these up in my head right now because i’m at home, they are not what’s actually happening though there are truths in these statements):
      He’s currently at a 55% win rate
      He has a very low pick rate, let’s say he’s the 5th lowest pick hero in the game.
      He’s considered a highly skilled but highly rewarding hero by the bulk of the community who argues that he should deserve a relatively high win rate as a reward for being hard to play. They argue that if you nerf or remove what’s unique about him, then why would anyone play a hard hero when they can pick someone like Raynor or Lili every game and just win more often?
      Others feel he’s frustrating to play against and a different section of the community thinks he’s obviously way too strong and needs nerfs. They can and do show you videos of crazy things that he does that look and feel unfair.
      The people that play him love the unique things he can do, like swapping to clones and tricking his opponents, which is what his entire design is based on. If you decide to change these things, the likelihood of having an extremely vocal and negative and reaction from his community is very high.
      Do you make changes? If so, what do you do?
      I can guarantee you not everyone will agree with your proposed changes, which is fine and normal. A large part of being a designer is having the courage to make these kinds of calls and dealing with the fallout, even if your ideas are not always perfect. Even so, there are many cases like this and there are many times where changes need to be made. That’s essentially what we spent the bulk of our time figuring out and doing.
      Also as a side note, finding out community sentiment doesn’t come from data, and community sentiment is often a large part of the picture as well, so if you only rely on data to make changes, you’ll end up making a lot of weird changes that no one will agree with.
      As an example, Probius has always had an extremely high win rate and statistically deserves heavy nerfs. I don’t think that’d go over too well with the community ?.
      Latest Heroes of the Storm News
      Heroes of the Storm Balance Update Patch Notes: February 12th Free-to-Play Hero Rotation: Week of February 18th Heroic Deals: Week of February 18th Weekly Brawl - Lost Cavern: Week of February 21st
    • By Stan
      This week's brawl is Lost Cavern and comes with the usual ARAM rules that include shuffle pick, standard play, and no Hearthstones at spawn. A game is won by destroying the enemy Core. Play three games to earn a New Toy Chest.
      Blizzard (Source)
      This week’s brawl is Lost Cavern! It’s all-out mayhem on our single-lane battleground – Lost Cavern. Queue up, choose your Hero, and try to best to bring down the enemy Core!

      Rules:
      Shuffle pick - Choose from one of three Heroes before entering the battle. Standard play - no talent or level restrictions. The first team to destroy the enemy Core wins! Rewards:
      Complete three matches of Lost Cavern to earn a New Toy Chest! Find out more about the Heroes Brawl game mode on our Heroes Brawl site; and as always, you can find more information on this week’s Brawl by clicking the Brawl Info button at the bottom of the play screen when preparing to queue for the Brawl game mode.
×
×
  • Create New...