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Deckard Meta Tier List (May 2018)

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Our nineteenth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier list for the month of May is here!

We present our nineteenth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier List for the month of May 2018.

Welcome to Icy Veins's Meta Tier List for the May 9 patch. The goal of this list is to try and detail game's current metagame state. The prime goal of such lists is to inform players regarding popular and trending team composition drafting strategies (i.e. the drafting metagame). Although tier listings are generally the product of balance, many factors come into play when discussing the relative perceived strengths of heroes, including player regions, maps, play style, skill level, and, of course, personal perception. As such, any tier list—including this very one—should never be interpreted as gospel, but rather, as a guide to better grasp what to expect with regards to typical drafting experiences. One useful application of such lists is to allow you know which heroes to look out for in terms of practice and counterplay, ultimately improving your knowledge of the game.

Using the list

As stated above, tier lists are easy to mistake for gospel. As new strategies are discovered and experimented with, so changes the perception of the relative strengths of each hero. Tier lists still prove to be useful as a snapshot of player expectations in terms of drafting. Although it is generally considered preferable to focus on high tier heroes (Prime and Core tiers), it is important to note that Heroes of the Storm's wild character and map designs make it so that any given hero's tier position is prone to fluctuate depending on the situation at hand.

One classic example of such is that of Kerrigan on the Infernal Shrines map. Although we currently judge her to be a mid-tier hero, her drafting priority shoots up to first-pick or first-ban material on this specific map due to the nature of its objective. Certain heroes also synergise so well with each other that the sole fact of having the opportunity of drafting them together is generally enough to increase their potential. Tassadar and Tracer, for instance, are generally nightmarish to deal with for many. There are too many examples of these interactions to reasonably produce here, but we invite you to consult our guides to know exactly where and when each hero shines. The guides have been linked in the lists below for your convenience - just click any of the hero names to access them.

A  next to a hero's name means its tier list position has increased since the previous month whereas a  means just the opposite. Additionally, a + or - sign indicates short-to-medium term predictions (which is to say, about a month) for tier increase(s) or decrease(s), respectively. These are often updated after significant balance patches and/or when clear trends are emerging.

If you're newer to the game, also consider visiting our glossary for a comprehensive list of discrete Heroes of the Storm terms.

Current ranked mode map rotation

 
  • Battlefield of Eternity
  • Braxis Holdout
  • Cursed Hollow
  • Dragon Shire
  • Infernal Shrines
  • Sky Temple
  • Tomb of the Spider Queen
  • Towers of Doom
  • Volskaya Foundry

 

Prime Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Diablo Genji Malfurion -
E.T.C. Fenix  Stukov  
Garrosh Maiev-    
Sonya Thrall    

Prime tier heroes are considered to be extremely strong in all situations, and show no obvious weakness. They are very often banned or picked right away, as they generally dictate the pace of most matches.

 

Core Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Arthas Falstad Alexstrasza Abathur
Blaze   Greymane Deckard (new) Azmodan
Dehaka Hanzo Li Li Nazeebo
Johanna Jaina Lt. Morales Sylvanas-
Muradin Junkrat Lúcio  Zagara
Stitches Li-Ming Uther  
Varian (TauntTaunt) Malthael    
  Tracer    

Core tier heroes are strong in a wide variety of situations and have few counter-picking possibility. They should form the core of your team, and be picked after Prime Tier heroes have been distributed.

 

Viable Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Anub'arak Alarak Auriel Gazlowe
Artanis Cassia Brightwing- Medivh+
D.Va Chromie Kharazim Murky
Leoric Gul'dan Rehgar Xul
Tyrael  Kael'thas Tyrande-  
Zarya Kel'Thuzad+    
  Kerrigan    
  Lunara    
  Nova    
  Ragnaros    
  Samuro    
  The Butcher    
  Tychus+    
  Varian (Colossus SmashColossus Smash)    
  Valla    
  Zeratul    
  Zul'jin    

Viable tier heroes are generally well-rounded that have either fallen out of favour, or, inversely, are on the rise in popularity, due to the current Prime tier contenders.

 

Niche Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Chen Cho'gall Ana Probius
Cho'gall Illidan Tassadar Sgt. Hammer
Rexxar Raynor    
  Valeera    
  Varian (Twin Blades of FuryTwin Blades of Fury)    

Niche tier heroes have niche application on certain maps or for certain team compositions. They may also picked to "round out" your team composition when your team composition is missing out on key components, such as a "jungler" (mercenary camps), a solo laner, or solid waveclear.

 

Lost Vikings Tier

The Lost Vikings

The Lost Viking are deemed to be either considerably weaker than the majority of other Heroes, or much more challenging to play properly. Although they may situationally shine, this notoriously poorly designed trio is generally avoided by most players.

 

Metagame assessment

Tanky meta featuring a tonne of crowd control. Most fights come down to who gets caught out of position first. The natural counters to a tanky meta is typically a double support meta, but Blizzard's recent crusade against support heroes and general design trend embracing overspecialization (i.e. healers can't deal damage or have waveclear, with Deckard being the pinnacle of such) makes this unlikely to happen unless there are more radical changes inbound. In other words, I feel like we may be stuck with what we see.

Deckard: Fits right in the current metagame with outstanding follow up to any initiation in the form of Scroll Of SealingScroll Of Sealing, high healing (though weak against displacement effects), great adaptive talents (notably, EmeraldEmerald against any burst target and Kanai's CubeKanai's Cube as a counter to burst) and armor to make him surprisingly difficult to kill. His biggest weakness might be lacking a CleanseCleanse equivalent, though this is becoming more and more common.

Garrosh: Doesn't do well against Diablo, but wreaks havoc against many other tanks. Particularly strong right now due to being more or less unburstable on top of bringing his super reliable cleansing effect in IndomitableIndomitable. High high armor works well with sustain healers who basically populate the two highest tiers of healers, bar Uther.

Hanzo: Excessive basic attack range allowed him to overshadow every other attack-based assassin bar Fenix. Reducing his range by about 15% puts him in right in range of a number of several movement abilities on top of giving him less breathing room against casters. This results in either reduced survivability or damage dealing potential, and in the inability to attack turrets without retaliation. His waveclear and evasiveness were also hit for good measure (through Explosive ArrowsExplosive Arrows damage and Natural AgilityNatural Agility range nerfs, respectively). He remains a fine hero, though nowhere near as oppressive, and nowhere near as safe for newer players. I don't expect him to do well in lower leagues.

Illidan: A feast-or-famine design that feels outdated in terms of depth, overshadowed in the face of rampant mobility creep, and out of meta versus so much crowd control. This will remain the case as long as he is balanced so tightly around using Betrayer's ThirstBetrayer's Thirst.

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This is a good tier list. I agree with the positionings of Deckard, Hanzo, and Garrosh a ton. Can’t wait to hear the summaries when they are ready!

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19 minutes ago, Maxkitty said:

This is a good tier list. I agree with the positionings of Deckard, Hanzo, and Garrosh a ton. Can’t wait to hear the summaries when they are ready!

It's worth noting that I'll be publishing the next list in two weeks, to coincide with the Diablo and Lunara reworks (plus one week).

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I still strongly believe that Blaze should be put on Prime Tier, specially since the Double Warrior meta still reigns supreme, and he is arguably one of the best Warriors for that.

In my opinion Deckard also has Prime potential given his unmatched utility, fantastic setup healing and absurd burst with RubyRuby (even further once you get Perfect GemsPerfect Gems).

Looking forward to the metagame assessment.

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8 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

I still strongly believe that Blaze should be put on Prime Tier, specially since the Double Warrior meta still reigns supreme, and he is arguably one of the best Warriors for that.

Don't forget that Blaze is also an incredibly strong solo laner!

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Why is Brightwing still in Viable? I feel Brightwing is worse than a well-played Ana or Tassadar pretty much irrespective of the format.

Outside of that, the tier list looks pretty good considering how generalized it is (Bronze meta is different from Diamond meta which is different from HGC meta which is different from QM meta and that is even not getting into the vs AI stuff, Brawls and other stuff).

Edited by Aasgier
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39 minutes ago, Aasgier said:

Why is Brightwing still in Viable? I feel Brightwing is worse than a well-played Ana or Tassadar pretty much irrespective of the format.

Outside of that, the tier list looks pretty good considering how generalized it is (Bronze meta is different from Diamond meta which is different from HGC meta which is different from QM meta and that is even not getting into the vs AI stuff, Brawls and other stuff).

Why is Brightwing "Viable" while Ana and Tass are "Niche"?  A number of reasons:

1) Split Soaking.  Brightwing is still the proud owner of one of the few cross map movement abilities and the only support with one (baring stuff like Alex/Morales using a Heroic to cross the map or Auriel's level 20).  She also happens to have decent wave clear to go with it.  Ana lacks both of these advantages while Tass has good wave clear but no movement advantages.

2) She has a great point and click CC ability in Polymorph.  Ana's Sleep Dart is a skill shot, can be blocked by an enemy body, and breaks on hit.  Tass has no hard CC at all.

3) Brightwing's heal is manaless and as such she can heal forever.  It's AoE so works well in team fights (unlike Ana's heal which gets body blocked and is a skill shot meaning it's much worse in team fights) and she can get burst point and click heal with a Heroic.  Tass doesn't even get a heal really, it's a shield+life steal which puts him in a different category (though Brightwing can get shields if you really want.  In fact Tass+Brightwing were often a pair for this strategy).

4) Brightwing also has more generally applicable Heroics for a Healer.  Both Blink Heal and Emerald Wind work well as a support.  Tass has his wall and personal damage buff for his Heroics while Ana either buffs an ability user (especially Casters which are not very meta right now) or roots herself in place to do long range heal/damage that can still be body blocked.

Brightwing might not see a ton of play (though she does see some) and she may be a bit generic in her load out but there is no way she ranks lower than Ana.  Tass is a tough subject because he has always been a very specialized support.  He worked in a very specific situation (ie dual support with Tracer/Genji/Greymane/Valla hyper carry) but was never really a good solo healer/general support.  As such while he isn't "bad" (like Ana is) he is certainly niche.

Edited by KSDT
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14 minutes ago, KSDT said:

Why is Brightwing "Viable" while Ana and Tass are "Niche"?  A number of reasons:

1) Split Soaking...

Would said yes, if only her Q wasn't nerfed in support nerf wave. Now it takes too long to clear wave to properly soak.

2) She has a great point and click CC ability in Polymorph.  Ana's Sleep Dart is a skill shot, can be blocked by an enemy body, and breaks on hit.  Tass has no hard CC at all.

Can't argue with that, only good aspect.

There are other factors: Brightwing's heal is manaless and as such she can heal "FOREVER"...
Her heals are currently really bad, it's really hard to keep up with poke. More importantly, beyond Blink HealBlink Heal which puts you in danger, you don't have on demand high healing, which makes any focus fire extremely difficult to handle. She is support that now needs 2nd support, yet doesn't provide much needed waveclear, funnily enough.

Brightwing might not see a ton of play and she may be a bit generic in her load out but there is no way she ranks lower than Ana...

As someone who has played BW for quite some time, had 65%+ winrate, I never feel "gosh, BW would be great here.".
Take it with a pinch of salt, but Ana deserves Viable spot more than Brightwing.

 

Edited by SleepySheepy

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21 minutes ago, SleepySheepy said:

Would said yes, if only her Q wasn't nerfed in support nerf wave. Now it takes too long to clear wave to properly soak.

Eh, it's still better than Ana and honestly I don't find her taking all that long to do it when I play her (that said I do not main her).  Maybe her damage is too low now I'll have to check again.

21 minutes ago, SleepySheepy said:

Her heals are currently really bad, it's really hard to keep up with poke. More importantly, beyond Blink HealBlink Heal which puts you in danger, you don't have on demand high healing, which makes any focus fire extremely difficult to handle. She is support now needs 2nd support, yet doesn't provide much needed waveclear, funnily enough.

We're kinda in a sustain heal meta atm anyway so while it's true she has trouble with burst (outside of her Heroic) Malf has a similar issue (which he handles better sure but still).  That said, Ana often has much the same problem.  Her heal isn't all that great, gets blocked, and lacks burst (for the most part).  You can use her grenade true but it's still nothing impressive given everything that can go wrong.  I will say though that raw single target healing numbers in a vacuum is one area Ana has over Brightwing (even if in practice it might be less clear).

21 minutes ago, SleepySheepy said:

As someone who has played BW for quite some time, had 65%+ winrate, I never feel "gosh, BW would be great here.".
Take it with a pinch of salt, but Ana deserves Viable spot more than Brightwing.

Sure, she isn't the top tier like Malf/Stukov/Uther.  She might not even by on Lucio/Alex/Deckard tier (I would agree) but is she on Ana/Tass level?  Heck no.  I guess we just have very different views on Ana's viability because I would take a Brightwing over an Ana every single time (and Ana certainly never gets a "gosh, Ana would be great here." from me).

Edited by KSDT

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Deckard patch metagame assessment: Deckard great, Garrosh great, Hanzo more vulnerable.

Diablo and Lunara rework metagame assessment: Raynor and TLV are crying 

Edited by Maxkitty

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Seems good ^^

Interested to hear what bumped Gaz up to viable.

Edited by MurkyFelix
Typoo

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1 hour ago, SleepySheepy said:

1) Split Soaking...

Would said yes, if only her Q wasn't nerfed in support nerf wave. Now it takes too long to clear wave to properly soak.

I gotta side with KSDT here. Not only is BW technically better at waveclear, the bigger point is that she can stay in lane longer before rotating due to phase shift. 

 

1 hour ago, SleepySheepy said:

As someone who has played BW for quite some time, had 65%+ winrate, I never feel "gosh, BW would be great here.".

I agree with this about her, but while she doesn't excel in certain scenarios, she doesn't fall flat in others either. Heroes that fall into that problem is how I define "niche".

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2 hours ago, KSDT said:

Why is Brightwing "Viable" while Ana and Tass are "Niche"?  A number of reasons:

1) Split Soaking.  Brightwing is still the proud owner of one of the few cross map movement abilities and the only support with one (baring stuff like Alex/Morales using a Heroic to cross the map or Auriel's level 20).  She also happens to have decent wave clear to go with it.  Ana lacks both of these advantages while Tass has good wave clear but no movement advantages.

2) She has a great point and click CC ability in Polymorph.  Ana's Sleep Dart is a skill shot, can be blocked by an enemy body, and breaks on hit.  Tass has no hard CC at all.

3) Brightwing's heal is manaless and as such she can heal forever.  It's AoE so works well in team fights (unlike Ana's heal which gets body blocked and is a skill shot meaning it's much worse in team fights) and she can get burst point and click heal with a Heroic.  Tass doesn't even get a heal really, it's a shield+life steal which puts him in a different category (though Brightwing can get shields if you really want.  In fact Tass+Brightwing were often a pair for this strategy).

4) Brightwing also has more generally applicable Heroics for a Healer.  Both Blink Heal and Emerald Wind work well as a support.  Tass has his wall and personal damage buff for his Heroics while Ana either buffs an ability user (especially Casters which are not very meta right now) or roots herself in place to do long range heal/damage that can still be body blocked.

Brightwing might not see a ton of play (though she does see some) and she may be a bit generic in her load out but there is no way she ranks lower than Ana.  Tass is a tough subject because he has always been a very specialized support.  He worked in a very specific situation (ie dual support with Tracer/Genji/Greymane/Valla hyper carry) but was never really a good solo healer/general support.  As such while he isn't "bad" (like Ana is) he is certainly niche.

1. You are a Support. Sure Brightwing can Soak, but her waveclear is fairly bad rendering the point moot, and the lack of a mount makes plenty of her rotations not overly fast. Also, she can't soak multiple lanes - because she can only teleport to teammates (which are already soaking) and lacks a mount. That and she's a Support. At best you can say she is less harmful to the team when she has to move away to soak a lane for a bit, but as a support you want to remain with the rest of the team - especially as Brightwing actually, due to the healing-over-time nature of her trait and the lack of burst saving (she can't even save someone if a teamfight abruptly breaks out - even with her teleport).

2. Tassadar is not a solosupport, and due to his nature he should be drafted with a plan, making him unsuited for anything that isn't a 5-man team (where he can be really good), and as such I do agree he deserves his spot. Ana is just exceptionally hard to play - if you suck mechanically you are going to suck with her, but I have seen some really good Ana's that somehow manage to outheal the Malf/Stukov/Deckard trio. Sure, a bad or even average Ana will be worse than a bad/average Brightwing, but a good Ana can put in a lot of work. The problem is what bad and average Ana players do to her, and as such I do agree with her spot in the tier list.

The problem is just that Brightwing is bad too.

3. Heal What Heal? Her Trait healing often doesn't even get more than one tick off before a teammate gets blown up. That and just compare her numbers to Deckard Cain - his potions heal more than twice as much as Ana's blink on half the cooldown.

Her Trait does not heal enough when she needs the healing the most - she can't outheal poke, she can't save any teammate that gets bursted down or receives any serious hit from whatever flavour-of-the-month Assassin. Yes, her heal doesn't cost mana, but does that really matter when her healing is just so insignificant that it could just as well not exist?

4. Yeah, her Heroics are good compared to Tass and Ana, provided you don't die when you are using Blink Heal as that does seriously put yourself in danger.

To be fair, I don't think Brightwing is much worse than Tassadar and Ana - it's more that Kharazim, Rehgar and Auriel are all significantly better than her. Heck, even Tyrande is, provided your team knows a second support is needed to pair up with her.

Edited by Aasgier

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1 hour ago, Aasgier said:

1. You are a Support. Sure Brightwing can Soak, but her waveclear is fairly bad rendering the point moot, and the lack of a mount makes plenty of her rotations not overly fast. Also, she can't soak multiple lanes - because she can only teleport to teammates (which are already soaking) and lacks a mount. That and she's a Support. At best you can say she is less harmful to the team when she has to move away to soak a lane for a bit, but as a support you want to remain with the rest of the team - especially as Brightwing actually, due to the healing-over-time nature of her trait and the lack of burst saving (she can't even save someone if a teamfight abruptly breaks out - even with her teleport).

No, she can't really soak multiple lanes but then that was never her job.  Her job was to soak a far lane while an objective was being jockeyed over (infernal shrine for example) and then when the fight was about to start, to jump in.  That way you either gain a lead on exp over the enemy team (which grew the longer it took for the fight to happen) or they match you with a soaker but you get to join your team faster.  It doesn't even really matter how fast she clears a lane (if her clear has really become that bad or if people are overreacting regarding her nerf) because you just need to be able to do it.  You'll get the exp lead regardless.

That was at least her role and why she did at points appear in competitive matches (never a lot but Gilly always made a big deal of it when she did).  The meta has changed a fair bit and I don't know if she still appears every once in a blue moon anymore but it's still more than Ana ever had.

1 hour ago, Aasgier said:

2. Tassadar is not a solosupport, and due to his nature he should be drafted with a plan, making him unsuited for anything that isn't a 5-man team (where he can be really good), and as such I do agree he deserves his spot. Ana is just exceptionally hard to play - if you suck mechanically you are going to suck with her, but I have seen some really good Ana's that somehow manage to outheal the Malf/Stukov/Deckard trio. Sure, a bad or even average Ana will be worse than a bad/average Brightwing, but a good Ana can put in a lot of work. The problem is what bad and average Ana players do to her, and as such I do agree with her spot in the tier list.

The problem is just that Brightwing is bad too.

Ana is exceptionally hard to play I agree.  That said, even if you play very well her mechanics can still mess her up at little to no fault of the Ana player's own.  As for her outhealing, sure I can see that just because you can find bad Malf/Stukov/Deckard players too.  With equally good healers though?  No, Ana is not some healing goddess if you're just that good.  She does heal better than Brightwing at the best of times though, sure.

Regarding Brightwing just being bad.  I'm certainly willing to agree she needs buffs.  That said she does offer more CC than most healers in any case.  Poly + Emerald Wind both turn team fights and Ana can't really compare.  Maybe with a god tier Ana on a coordinated team her Sleep Dart will actually be game winning but at that point why not just pick a better healer and win more?

1 hour ago, Aasgier said:

3. Heal What Heal? Her Trait healing often doesn't even get more than one tick off before a teammate gets blown up. That and just compare her numbers to Deckard Cain - his potions heal more than twice as much as Ana's blink on half the cooldown.

Her Trait does not heal enough when she needs the healing the most - she can't outheal poke, she can't save any teammate that gets bursted down or receives any serious hit from whatever flavour-of-the-month Assassin. Yes, her heal doesn't cost mana, but does that really matter when her healing is just so insignificant that it could just as well not exist?

It's certainly not so insignificant it might not as well exist.  Healing has always been Brightwing's low point as a support, to make up for her CC and global abilities.  That said, Ana isn't saving people either in most situations so...

1 hour ago, Aasgier said:

4. Yeah, her Heroics are good compared to Tass and Ana, provided you don't die when you are using Blink Heal as that does seriously put yourself in danger.

To be fair, I don't think Brightwing is much worse than Tassadar and Ana - it's more that Kharazim, Rehgar and Auriel are all significantly better than her. Heck, even Tyrande is, provided your team knows a second support is needed to pair up with her.

If the argument was that "Brightwing should be in Niche" instead of "Ana deserves being in Viable more than Brightwing" I probably wouldn't have argued against it.  It has been a while since I saw a Brightwing after all and I do think she needs buffs.  That said, I stand by my statement that I'd rather have a Brightwing over an Ana basically all the time.  Even if you wanted to say it was a God-Tier Ana player, I'd rather have a God-Tier Brightwing for those Emerald Wind team splits and Poly interrupts.  Both characters regardless of player skill are going to be weak in some area but I don't really respect Ana's impact even in the best of situations.  *Shrug*

Edited by KSDT

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9 minutes ago, KSDT said:

No, she can't really soak multiple lanes but then that was never her job.  Her job was to soak a far lane while an objective was being jockeyed over (infernal shrine for example) and then when the fight was about to start, to jump in.  That way you either gain a lead on exp over the enemy team (which grew the longer it took for the fight to happen) or they match you with a soaker but you get to join your team faster.  It doesn't even really matter how fast she clears a lane (if her clear has really become that bad or if people are overreacting regarding her nerf) because you just need to be able to do it.  You'll get the exp lead regardless.

That was at least her role and why she did at points appear in competitive matches (never a lot but Gilly always made a big deal of it when she did).  The meta has changed a fair bit and I don't know if she still appears every once in a blue moon anymore but it's still more than Ana ever had.

Ana is exceptionally hard to play I agree.  That said, even if you play very well her mechanics can still mess her up at little to no fault of the Ana player's own.  As for her outhealing, sure I can see that just because you can find bad Malf/Stukov/Deckard players too.  With equally good healers though?  No, Ana is not some healing goddess if you're just that good.  She does heal better than Brightwing at the best of times though, sure.

Regarding Brightwing just being bad.  I'm certainly willing to agree she needs buffs.  That said she does offer more CC than most healers in any case.  Poly + Emerald Wind both turn team fights and Ana can't really compare.  Maybe with a god tier Ana on a coordinated team her Sleep Dart will actually be game winning but at that point why not just pick a better healer and win more?

It's certainly not so insignificant it might not as well exist.  Healing has always been Brightwing's low point as a support, to make up for her CC and global abilities.  That said, Ana isn't saving people either in most situations so...

If the argument was that Brightwing should be in Niche instead of "Ana deserves being in Viable more than Brightwing" I probably wouldn't have argued against it.  It has been a while since I saw a Brightwing after all and I do think she needs buffs.  That said, I stand by my statement that I'd rather have a Brightwing over an Ana basically all the time.  Even if you wanted to say it was a God-Tier Ana player, I'd rather have a God-Tier Brightwing for those Emerald Wind team splits and Poly interrupts.  Both characters regardless of player skill are going to be weak in some area.  *Shrug*

Fair enough - it';s just that teammates tend to have blown up already by that point. You may just as well draft a full sololaner at that point.

I haven't seen Brightwing get value in lower leagues in bloody ages, nor on the streams I watch. The only match she wasn't deadweight was a match I recall her being played alongside a Li Li, so a double support composition on my team, I think it was on Towers of Doom.

This particular Ana had healed 130k+ by level 20, which is a rather large amount. Might have been an outlier though.

Well, it's 109 healing every four seconds. Even Tyrande effectively outheals that.

Considering my first sentence in this thread "Why is Brightwing still in Viable" I think that is my argument. I think Brightwing should move to Niche for the time being. Ana is not viable right now (except in the hands of a few god tier players, but that's... rare), Tassadar is the definition of niche as I have described above and I think Brightwing is in the same boat.

Edit: Ah, I see the confusion. SleepySheepy above said that Ana should be in Viable over Brightwing, but I personally disagree with that too. While I do think Ana is better than Brightwing if played exceptionally well, I also think they should both reside in the Niche tier.

Edited by Aasgier
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I'll certainly reconsider BW's tier. I think she does better in tank-light metas, which isn't what we're seeing right now.

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I wish the Warrior was separated into Bruisers and Tanks. They're two different roles even if they fall into the same class.

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1 hour ago, Tarvesh said:

I wish the Warrior was separated into Bruisers and Tanks. They're two different roles even if they fall into the same class.

I think a lot more could be done to improve the way things are listed in general, but I'm having a hard time coming up with something visually bearable (not that the list currently looks good), simple, and smart. Where would I even draw the line for bruisers? I think I'll experiment a bit with the next list.

Blizzard is reworking their class system soon as well, apparently.

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4 hours ago, Oxygen said:

I'll certainly reconsider BW's tier. I think she does better in tank-light metas, which isn't what we're seeing right now.

I think the reverse.  Remember, BW has a hard CC that outright destroys isolated targets if she has any damage with her, and also really likes having targets she doesn't need to heal.  She's also better in a meta without a ton of burst AOE.

BW has an excellent kit and is fairly well constructed.  She's always going to be more of a utility healer/split soaker because if her healing gets bumped even a little she jumps to prime tier (her kit is EXCELLENT outside of her burst healing).  As it is, she shines on maps with split objectives and long drawn out fights (Infernal Shrines comes to mind), and makes for a very strong second support just based on her utility.

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2 hours ago, Oxygen said:

I think a lot more could be done to improve the way things are listed in general, but I'm having a hard time coming up with something visually bearable (not that the list currently looks good), simple, and smart. Where would I even draw the line for bruisers? I think I'll experiment a bit with the next list.

Blizzard is reworking their class system soon as well, apparently.

Maybe you could separate Tanks and Bruisers in your next tier list. Could be interesting. Although would be tricky because we have some Bruisers that are Assassins (i.e. Ragnaros), plus we don't have that many Bruisers in the game (around 5, I think) but I think it could work.

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11 hours ago, Oxygen said:

I'll certainly reconsider BW's tier. I think she does better in tank-light metas, which isn't what we're seeing right now.

This seems kind of odd as I have seen BW being taken with double tank or a burst protection because she heals over time and tanks can handle burst.

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58 minutes ago, XeaKon said:

This seems kind of odd as I have seen BW being taken with double tank or a burst protection because she heals over time and tanks can handle burst.

When?

I haven't seen Brightwing do much of value in bloody ages. 

Also, how does she offer burst protection? Blink Heal + trait + Blink Heal + trait can come down in four seconds but it still heals less than an Ancestral Heal / Jugs and takes a lot more time to do so - it's worth noting that Li Li can heal more in the same timeframe post-16 without her Heroic! (and I have heard people complain about Li Li's ability to burst heal already.)

That and it gets Brightwing so close to whoever she tries to save that she is in serious risk of dying / taking crippling damage from abilities aimed at someone else, that potentially might still hit him, as plenty of dangerous skillshots are AoE or pierce (mages) or bounce (like Thrall's Crash Lightning-boosted Q).

Don't get me wrong, I love Brightwing's kit, but her healing is goddamn awful.

Edited by Aasgier

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17 hours ago, Oxygen said:

I'll certainly reconsider BW's tier. I think she does better in tank-light metas, which isn't what we're seeing right now.

Personally, I think BW’s only saving graces are poly, emerald wind, and ice block. It just feels like her healing is so out of the meta that it can’t keep up with the levels of poke that we currently have. That, and she’s not always great against dive, especially if emerald wind is on CD, and when almost all the prime tier heroes have some form of dive, it gives BW a very hard time.

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