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Alexstrasza Meta Tier List (November 2017)

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Our thirteenth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier list for the Alexstrasza patch of November is here!

We present our thirteenth Heroes of the Storm Meta Tier List for the Alexstrasza patch of November 2017.

Welcome to Icy Veins's Meta Tier List for the Alexstrasza patch. The goal if of this list is to try and detail game's current metagame state. The prime goal of such lists is to inform players regarding popular and trending team composition drafting strategies (i.e. the drafting metagame). Although tier listings are generally the product of balance, many factors come into play when discussing the relative perceived strengths of heroes, including player regions, maps, play style, skill level, and, of course, personal perception. As such, any tier list—including this very one—should never be interpreted as gospel, but rather, as a guide to better grasp what to expect with regards to typical drafting experiences. One useful application of such lists is to allow you know which heroes to look out for in terms of practice and counterplay, ultimately improving your knowledge of the game.

Using the list

As stated above, tier lists are easy to mistake for gospel. As new strategies are discovered and experimented with, so changes the perception of the relative strengths of each hero. Tier lists still prove to be useful as a snapshot of player expectations in terms of drafting. Although it is generally considered preferable to focus on high tier heroes (Prime and Core tiers), it is important to note that Heroes of the Storm's wild character and map designs make it so that any given hero's tier position is prone to fluctuate depending on the situation at hand.

One classic example of such is that of Kerrigan on the Infernal Shrines map. Although we currently judge her to be a low-to-mid-tier hero, her drafting priority shoots up to first-pick or first-ban material on this specific map due to the nature of its objective. Certain heroes also synergise so well with each other that the sole fact of having the opportunity of drafting them together is generally enough to increase their potential. Tassadar and Tracer, for instance, are generally nightmarish to deal with for many. There are too many examples of these interactions to reasonably produce here, but we invite you to consult our guides to know exactly where and when each hero shines. The guides have been linked in the lists below for your convenience - just click any of the hero names to access them.

A  next to a hero's name means its tier list position has increased since the previous month whereas a  means just the opposite. Additionally, a + or - sign indicates short-to-medium term predictions (which is to say, about a month) for tier increase(s) or decrease(s), respectively. These are often updated after significant balance patches and/or when clear trends are emerging.

If you're newer to the game, also consider visiting our glossary for a comprehensive list of discrete Heroes of the Storm terms.

Current map rotation

 
  • Battlefield of Eternity
  • Braxis Holdout
  • Cursed Hollow
  • Dragon Shire
  • Infernal Shrines
  • Sky Temple
  • Tomb of the Spider Queen
  • Towers of Doom
  • Volskaya Foundry

 

Battlefield of Eternity and Infernal Shrines replaced Haunted MInes and Garden of Terror.

 

Prime Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Arthas Genji - -
E.T.C. Greymane    
Garrosh Malthael    

Prime tier heroes are considered to be extremely strong in all situations, and show no obvious weakness. They are very often banned or picked right away, as they generally dictate the pace of most matches.

 

 

Core Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Anub'arak Falstad Brightwing Azmodan
Dehaka Kerrigan Lúcio+ Nazeebo
Diablo Li-Ming Rehgar Sylvanas-
Sonya+ Valla Tassadar-  
Stitches Zeratul    
Varian (Tank) Zul'jin    

Core tier heroes are strong in a wide variety of situations and have few counter-picking possibility. They should form the core of your team, and be picked after Prime Tier heroes have been distributed.

 

Viable Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Artanis Alarak Ana Abathur
D.Va Cassia Auriel Murky
Johanna Chromie Kharazim Probius
Leoric Gul'dan Li Li Zagara
Muradin+ Illidan Lt. Morales Xul-
Zarya Kael'thas Malfurion  
  Kel'Thuzad Stukov  
  Jaina Tyrande  
  Lunara Uther  
  Ragnaros    
  Samuro    
  The Butcher    
  Tracer    

Viable tier heroes are generally well-rounded that have either fallen out of favour, or, inversely, are on the rise in popularity, due to the current Prime tier contenders.

 

Niche Tier

Warrior Assassin Support Specialist
Chen Cho'gall Alexstrasza (new)- Gazlowe
Cho'gall Junkrat   Medivh
Rexxar Nova   Sgt. Hammer
Tyrael Raynor    
  Thrall    
  Tychus    
  Valeera    
  Varian (Damage)    

Niche tier heroes have niche application on certain maps or for certain team compositions. They are generally picked to "round out" your team composition when your team composition is missing out on key components, such as a "jungler" (mercenary camps), a solo laner, or solid waveclear.

 

Bottom Tier

The Lost Vikings

Bottom tier Heroes are deemed to be either considerably weaker than the majority of other Heroes, or much more challenging to play properly. Although they may situationally shine, these Heroes are generally avoided by most players.

 

Metagame assessment

Alexstrasza. She didn't feel great at all back at BlizzCon, and the following PTR saw no changes to her. I expected poor performance, but nothing quite as low as 41%. Where do I even begin? DragonqueenDragonqueen is obviously powerful, but is gated behind a ridiculously long cooldown. Outside of Dragonqueen, she's just... really weak. I don't quite understand the concept behind Gift of LifeGift of Life, but it screams double healer to me, which is unfortunate for multiple reasons I won't elaborate on. AbundanceAbundance heals for too little for how difficult it is to use, on top of putting a big obvious marks on where to shoot. I'm putting her as Niche(-) for now because I suspect most players don't play her all too well, but she's in dire need of buffs, and that was quite obvious 2 weeks ago.

Anub'arak is losing some of his former popularity, though no nerfs were had for a few months. Although I can't explain exactly why, I suspect that tanks with more raw survivability and a bit more sustained damage potential are currently being prioritized. He's still not bad at all, especially with CocoonCocoon to counter Genji's DragonbladeDragonblade and Malthael's Tormented SoulsTormented Souls. Give Locust SwarmLocust Swarm a try if there are no valuable heroic abilities for you to lock down.

Kerrigan has emerged as this month (and last month's) sleeper for ripping hero league wins away, and I suspect my shedding some light over her success may frustrate those whom have been exploiting her relative unpopularity to . Why is she doing so well, though? AssimilationAssimilation's design makes it particularly difficult for double support teams to take her out. In essence, this trait gains more value the longer Kerrigan survives, which then translates into more damage, which then translates into more survivability... and so on.

Zul'jin's most recent rework was certainly one of the most successful reworks to date. Although he wasn't bad to begin with, most of the changes ended up being buffs, contrary to what some players were claiming. To add to this, the meta is quite favourable to him; stacking up on BerserkerBerserker (and keeping its effect active for the damage bonus) is pretty safe with more than one healer around. His trait also tends to favour longer fights, due to the stacking mechanic, allowing him to snowball. GuillotineGuillotine is even starting to see more play, with Taz'dingo!Taz'dingo! feeling less and less necessary to deal with burst.

Rehgar's changes, which I had mistakenly labeled as nerfs, ended up being positive. Turns out, area of effect healing is trendy. Now, why might Rehgar be doing so well? Simply put, versatility. With healers becoming more and more (over)specialized, this is certainly a respectable thing to have. He brings bits of waveclear, mercenary clearing, dueling, and of course, healing to the table. Lightning BondLightning Bond is great for single-target damage as well, making Rehgar particularly strong on Battlefield of Eternity, and just as a general single-target damage dealer.

Tassadar is also falling off quite dramatically. I think I may have overestimated just how unpopular he was in last month's list, but today's values are quite clear. As with Anub'arak, I'm not quite sure what happened, but most of the common Tassadar tag teams (besides Tracer, but she's a strange case) are below 50% winrate. Since the viability of such edge support heroes depend on the strength of what they support, I suppose we shouldn't be all that surprised for this. Force WallForce Wall could probably surprise quite a few opponents, as it is strangely unpopular nowadays.

Nazeebo's October nerfs have struck home, although the current metagame state isn't helping either; chip damage isn't all that effective when it simply gets healed off. He still remains strong if you plan on taking it to the late game, but is nowhere near to being first-pick worthy.

Samuro has always been in a strange place. Though the upcoming stealth changes are going to be extremely positive for him (BlizzCon spoilers!), I feel like his ability to split push, deal with mercenary camps extremely quickly, and single-out healers (or, anyone isolated, really) make him a sleeper. He's at his worse when Mirror ImageMirror Image get taken out quickly, but none of the top tier contenders are particularly heavy on area of effect damage. His winrate is currently the highest of the entire cast, yet his popularity is in the bottom 20. I suppose he requires quite a bit of decision making skills to make good use of. He's not all that flashy either, which may be contributing to his lack of popularity. Give him a try.

Jaina is doing well, though feels a bit out of meta right now, as with most other casters. I suspect that nerfs to any of the Prime tier heroes will see her surge right back up. Generally seen as a 4th or 5th pick.

Lt. Morales, Malfurion, Stukov, and Uther all feel extremely balanced right now, each hovering between healthy 49 and 50% winrates. They all have their niches (Morales on Braxis, for instance), and are generally picked as second healers when the Core tier contenders have been distributed.

Xul, whom I may have overhyped recently, lost Blackheart's Bay and Garden of Terror, some of his favourite maps. To add to this, the tanks who tend to punish him the most are right at the top of the food chain. This is on top of August's pretty heavy-handed nerfs. Just to add insult to injury, he's just not all that great against double support either. Xul is now part of the bottom 10 and will probably stay there for a while.

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She's not weak at all!!! It's just about people who don't know they should use her with high health heroes like chogall or Diablo and people or habe 2sup team... well I and my friends have uch fun with alex+chogall combo .. just people should understand to use her on ranked or teams or draft ! 

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2 minutes ago, MZLICH said:

She's not weak at all!!! It's just about people who don't know they should use her with high health heroes like chogall or Diablo and people or habe 2sup team... well I and my friends have uch fun with alex+chogall combo .. just people should understand to use her on ranked or teams or draft ! 

Alex is in 'Niche' tier. I think that's just because of her specialised way of healing. It doesn't fit into the regular Meta. Especially with Cho sitting in niche with her. Though she is rather strong currently with most beefy front liners so it will be interesting to see where she lands in the Hazno patch after people become accustomed to her play style.

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Lucio is your candidate to the Prime Tier, I'd like to see a couple of lines about him in your Metagame Assessment section, if it doesn't bother you too much.

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46 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

I don't quite understand the concept behind Gift of LifeGift of Life, but it screams double healer to me, which is unfortunate for multiple reasons I won't elaborate on.

I'd say that she indeed is suited for Double Support compositions, more specifically the likes of Brightwing or Lúcio, that can keep Alexstrasza above 75% health most of the time. I've been playing with her non-stop ever since her release, and I can say that the Gift of Life Build is arguably the best (I like using this one). LifeblossomLifeblossom is a fantastic talent, although it requires proper positioning so you can always pick the blossom, but if you do, keeping everyone topped is easy. That's why she requires a solid frontline to be truly effective; and given how her heals work, Double Support + Double Warrior is the way to go.

Quote

Alex is in 'Niche' tier. I think that's just because of her specialised way of healing. It doesn't fit into the regular Meta. Especially with Cho sitting in niche with her.

Funny you say that. She actually works fantastically well with Cho'gall. I've been playing some games as Alex with Double Healer + Cho'gall + Split pusher and it's a wild ride. Really fun.

Overall, I wouldn't say that Alexstrasza is weak, but she definitely has one of hardest learning curves and skill ceilings of all Supports in the game. You need to time well your cooldowns and be very, VERY, VERY careful with positioning so you don't take chip damage.

But I do agree that she needs some buffs, although I'm unsure if Blizzard will really buff her. They really dislike having over the top Supports. But Dog Bless if they do it.

Edited by Valhalen
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I can see why Alex would be "weak", but I'd never imagine she would be put that far bottom. In most cases, I would say she is viable, but second pick in almost every comp.

I'm really surprised that E.T.C. is a prime hero. Honestly, Garrosh is the only obvious Prime hero, and I can see Arthas doing sick plays with his pressure and survivability, but E.T.C. doesn't have a lot to shine with. He's a one trick pony that's dangerous for the first few seconds, then falls off quickly in long dragged out fights. Perhaps I'm just underestimating him, but I would definitely rank Muradin at least equal to E.T.C.

Also, I wonder how is Probius competing in the Viable tier? His kit just screams set up time and lag time. Furthermore, he has one of the lowest popularity rates - in the range of Tychus and Chen - but having none of the niches they've staked. The only positive I see for Probius is his super zoning at level 20 with Null Gate and Gather Minerals Cannon, which can dictate the pace of all key fights.

Otherwise, I agree with everything else.

Edited by Trensicourt

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56 minutes ago, Trensicourt said:

I'm really surprised that E.T.C. is a prime hero. Honestly, Garrosh is the only obvious Prime hero, and I can see Arthas doing sick plays with his pressure and survivability, but E.T.C. doesn't have a lot to shine with. He's a one trick pony that's dangerous for the first few seconds, then falls off quickly in long dragged out fights. Perhaps I'm just underestimating him, but I would definitely rank Muradin at least equal to E.T.C.

Actually Garrosh has this same issue. If he misses his bread and butter combo, he is pretty much a sitting duck. 

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55 minutes ago, Valhalen said:

Actually Garrosh has this same issue. If he misses his bread and butter combo, he is pretty much a sitting duck. 

On the other hand, he has the ability to stay in a fight. His armor makes it harder to kill him, but he still takes the same healing, so basically with a good healer Garrosh has extreme potential. Also Warlord's is a game changing heroic with good coordination. Unless there is a Malthael on the enemy team, I assume he's very powerful.

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I've been seeing phenomenal success with Alexstrasza, currently holding a 60% winrate with 15 games. She's what's pulling me out of Gold 4, so I was seriously worried that she would get nerfed. Then I saw her in Niche tier with a 41% winrate, and my jaw hit the floor. I find it contemptuously easy to outperform double healer comps as a solo Alex (two games in a row, my solo healing as Alex was more then double two enemy healers combined). On the bright side, this means she can only get BUFFED from here. Platinum, here I come. I find it quite easy to meet the 75% HP clause for her Q talents, and can just sit at the back cranking out heals.

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34 minutes ago, PixieKnight said:

I've been seeing phenomenal success with Alexstrasza, currently holding a 60% winrate with 15 games. She's what's pulling me out of Gold 4, so I was seriously worried that she would get nerfed. Then I saw her in Niche tier with a 41% winrate, and my jaw hit the floor. I find it contemptuously easy to outperform double healer comps as a solo Alex (two games in a row, my solo healing as Alex was more then double two enemy healers combined). On the bright side, this means she can only get BUFFED from here. Platinum, here I come. I find it quite easy to meet the 75% HP clause for her Q talents, and can just sit at the back cranking out heals.

One thing I really like is that Gift of Life can be used on minions and mercenaries. So after getting to level 7, I can spam it on those to further increase the pushing power.

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Cmon guys, don't tell me you don't realize Gift of Life can be used together with Abundance to keep her healed at all times. Just keep her inside the circle before using Gift. She doesn't really need another healer in the team.

And yes Dragonqueen has a long cooldown, yet I think she's far better than the likes of Brightwing or Rehgar.

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Thank you for yet another fun tier list to start discussion about the meta of the game.

I think you're overestimating Alextrasza's weaknesses. Although she's difficult to master and she has some problems with her healing, I still think she is powerful enough to stand her ground. She is still in need of some buffs, mostly to her trait.

Kerrigan was a surprise to me. Haven't seen her that much in HL, but I guess the stats speak for themselves.

Zul'Jin and Samuro really deserve their rise in the tiers, but Jaina? Has she really gone that far? I always thought Jaina and Kael'Thas were on equal footing when it came to damage. I've always preferred KT myself and I kind of understand the change, but still.

All your other tier loverings seem fine, but as you said most of them came a month late. I still think you should update these at least every time a big update is released.

The dev team has really balanced the healer meta game and I think most of them are currently as balanced as can be. Tassadar has really fallen to his previous niche healer place again. We'll see if they decide to buff him again to make him overpowered for a few days. Regarding Rehgar, he didn't ever really fall as down as you predicted.

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I'm very glad that you take my comments at the last tier list into consideration.

But there're still some heroes' assessments that can be discussed.

Sonya is really strong right now. She's probably THE best solo laner thanks to her great sustain and damage, and her team fight presence is really strong. She can apply enormous pressure on the enemy backline with her high single-target damage (poisoned spear btw), which can break the double-support comp very effectively. Not to mention that she's extremely hard to kill at late game (Nerve of Steel and Ignore Pain).

Diablo had kind of fallen out of favour imo. Despite his enormous health pool, he's really fragile against poke damage since he has no sustain at all. So he's quite weak against Double support because 1) Its damage is mostly from a range assassin's poke; 2) The supports can keep their team alive even if Diablo catch someone with his combo. I think he deserves to be in Viable tier.

Muradin defenitely deserves at Core tier right now, with the same reason as Rehgar -  versatility. His rework vastly improves his talent versatility and damage (If you go for damage build. Trust me, it's insane.), and he's never a bad pick when you need a tank.

If I'm not mistaken, Grubby just found out a bug that makes Samuro really clunky to play, and he said he'll never play him until Blizzard fix it. This bug may makes him much less viable.

I haven't play Alexstraza myself, but from my experience of playing with and against her, she seems pretty strong, especially in double support comp. Her damage is surprisingly high, and her burst heal is really strong. Even though her Q requires her to sacrifice part of her health, she has ways to sustain herself through her W or her lv 7 talent. Dragonqueen is very strong during team fight, and her heroic provide many utility to her kit. You just need to remembet that you're playing a support. (Yes, I've seen many players play her like an assassin. Spamming E on enemy team, diving into the enemy team with her heroic and Dragonqueen and try to push the enemy team into her team. They think they're invincible in during Dragonqueen.) 

Edited by ShadowerDerek

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I think bruiser Varian needs a try now. His tank build has been outplaced by Garrosh since months ago but he's still a good assassin with decent sustain with Wall Parry and Second Wind talents. His best asset has to be his Mortal Strike talent which prevents enemy healing.

EDIT: Oh and I also forgot to point out how much I disagree with Kerrigan's rise. She's still limping from her last batch of nerfs some months ago, and the latest patches have done literally nothing for her.

Edited by Leadblast

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Also, isn't Chen and Tyrael at viable tier in the last tier list? Why they don't have a red arrow, and why do they drop to top tier? I think some explainations on the assessment is needed.

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Tyrael has good synergy with some of the heroes I see rising in this tier list. The problem lies in that I don't understand the rise of said heroes in the first place. Kerrigan for instance I don't understand why is she even there - she's still suffering from her latest nerfs, her Ravage build has been literally "ravaged" with the elimination of key talents (no longer being able to Ravage onto allies for escape, for instance). Greymane has literally zero self-sustain, and needs badly a strong sustained heal like Morales to even stay alive. Genji is better, but even he shouldn't be THAT strong (basically no self-sustain, just as Greymane). these two heroes seem really out of place in a meta with double healers, assassins with some form of self-sustain (eg Valla, Zul'jin or Falstad), or warriors that can heal themselves (Sonya, Arthas and ETC).

Edited by Leadblast

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51 minutes ago, Leadblast said:

Kerrigan for instance I don't understand why is she even there - she's still suffering from her latest nerfs, her Ravage build has been literally "ravaged" with the elimination of key talents (no longer being able to Ravage onto allies for escape, for instance).

Most Kerrigan don't use Ravage build anymore. The damage build that aims to maximise her W + E combo's damage is usually what I've seen, but I don't know its strength as I don't play Kerrigan myself.

51 minutes ago, Leadblast said:

Greymane has literally zero self-sustain, and needs badly a strong sustained heal like Morales to even stay alive. Genji is better, but even he shouldn't be THAT strong (basically no self-sustain, just as Greymane). these two heroes seem really out of place in a meta with double healers, assassins with good self-sustain (eg Valla or Falstad), or warriors that can heal themselves (Sonya, Arthas and ETC).

Honestly, if you have 2 supports to keep you healthy, you don't really need self-sustain. All you need is high sustain and burst damage as you're probably the only damage dealer. Greymane does the job very well, on top of being a decent jungler and solo laner, which makes him very versatile and strong.

Genji's and Falstad's damage are not good enough to be the only damage dealer. Genji is often paired with Li Ming to form a 'double-reset' comp that devastate the enemy with high burst damage and the snowball potential of their ability resets. But I agree that he's not as strong as before. And Falstad's self-sustain is too low to be relied on. 

 

Edited by ShadowerDerek
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2 hours ago, ShadowerDerek said:

They think they're invincible in during Dragonqueen.

I think this is their minds conditioning the idea that BIG DRAGON = SUPER STRONG. Yes, she does get a bonus health, but people seem to forget that she has a very low base health, and Dragonqueen doesn't give her armor  (which it should).

Also, in some cases, going Dragonqueen at the wrong time places a huge target on her head, making easier for skillshot to hit her due the massive size (i.e. Hook, Sleep Dart, Telekinesis, Chains of Kel'Thuzad).

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54 minutes ago, ShadowerDerek said:

Most Kerrigan don't use Ravage build anymore. The damage build that aims to maximise her W + E combo's damage is usually what I've seen, but I don't know its strength as I don't play Kerrigan myself.

Honestly, if you have 2 supports to keep you healthy, you don't really need self-sustain. All you need is high sustain and burst damage as you're probably the only damage dealer. Greymane does the job very well, on top of being a decent jungler and solo laner, which makes him very versatile and strong.

Genji's and Falstad's damage are not good enough to be the only damage dealer. Genji is often paired with Li Ming to form a 'double-reset' comp that devastate the enemy with high burst damage and the snowball potential of their ability resets. But I agree that he's not as strong as before. And Falstad's self-sustain is too low to be relied on. 

 

Hmm, interesting.

I suppose having burst damage makes more sense than sustained damage in a context where heals are abundant. If that's the case I could see Kerrigan/Genji + Li Ming working.

Falstad's sustain is kinda weak, yes, but it's better than literally nothing, like Greymane. His skill and talent's set is flexible enough, you can build around Hammerang + autoattacks, or around Lightning Rod for stronger single-target damage.

I still prefer a bruiser (Fury) Varian over a Greymane myself. Total lack of self-sustains is terrible in the end imho.

In any case, going back to your original question, Tyrael goes well with heroes that like to dive into an enemy backline and need to do so protected like Genji or Kerrigan. I think he's top pick/ban material for maps like Volskaya which is still in rotation...

Edited by Leadblast

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Holy, you guys jumped on this one fast, discussion wise. That's great. I'll produce a response a bit later today to clarify some points, since mobile isn't ideal for big responses. I should note rather quickly that while I do use hotslogs to look at winrates, which are useful to see trends, it is far from the only point of consideration.

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Why is Junkrat in Niche tier? If there is a place where enemy must gather, his grenades gain a lot of value, especially once you reach level 16. Once you get Endless NadesEndless Nades, it becomes really hard to push on your Keep. His Conc Mine is also versatile, being escape tool or displacement similar to Garrosh's combo, albeit being harder to pull off. Plus, his level 13  talent Ripper AirRipper Air gives him semi-global status, you won't be as fast Dehaka at reaching one place, but you'll be faster at getting back. Can do camps at cost of some of his HP, you just have to alter between Q and AA.
Only thing I see about him that's a bit lackluster is his Heroic abilities, they need setup.
If it was up to me, I would place him in at least Viable.

Edited by SleepySheepy

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22 hours ago, MZLICH said:

She's not weak at all!!! It's just about people who don't know they should use her with high health heroes like chogall or Diablo and people or habe 2sup team... well I and my friends have uch fun with alex+chogall combo .. just people should understand to use her on ranked or teams or draft ! 

The devs I've spoken to at BlizzCon have agreed that she was undertuned. Take what you will from this combined to her low on-release popularity and winrates.

22 hours ago, SirGeorge113 said:

Alex is in 'Niche' tier. I think that's just because of her specialised way of healing. It doesn't fit into the regular Meta. Especially with Cho sitting in niche with her. Though she is rather strong currently with most beefy front liners so it will be interesting to see where she lands in the Hazno patch after people become accustomed to her play style.

Don't forget that tiers are basically meant represent player pick expectations, not *just* strength (though they often correlate). Even specialized heroes can end up powerful if they're overtuned. Malthael is a pretty good example; he's supposed to be a tank shredder, but currently does well against pretty much everything.

22 hours ago, Jonar said:

Lucio is your candidate to the Prime Tier, I'd like to see a couple of lines about him in your Metagame Assessment section, if it doesn't bother you too much.

I'll certainly add a bit about him, but basically: Crossfade - Speed BoostCrossfade - Speed Boost and SoundwaveSoundwave are both really good against the current top tier tanks; they all have something that can be dodged or messed up by the knockback, particularly Garrosh. You try yanking a good Lucio player.

21 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

I can see why Alex would be "weak", but I'd never imagine she would be put that far bottom. In most cases, I would say she is viable, but second pick in almost every comp.

I'm really surprised that E.T.C. is a prime hero. Honestly, Garrosh is the only obvious Prime hero, and I can see Arthas doing sick plays with his pressure and survivability, but E.T.C. doesn't have a lot to shine with. He's a one trick pony that's dangerous for the first few seconds, then falls off quickly in long dragged out fights. Perhaps I'm just underestimating him, but I would definitely rank Muradin at least equal to E.T.C.

Also, I wonder how is Probius competing in the Viable tier? His kit just screams set up time and lag time. Furthermore, he has one of the lowest popularity rates - in the range of Tychus and Chen - but having none of the niches they've staked. The only positive I see for Probius is his super zoning at level 20 with Null Gate and Gather Minerals Cannon, which can dictate the pace of all key fights.

Otherwise, I agree with everything else.

These are all very valid comments. I think E.T.C. is just awfully reliable, and often one of the best Garrosh counterpick, tank-wise. I'm inclined to push Muradin up, but I don't see him *thaaat* often.

I think Probius is a bit sleeper right now, but that's my editorial-please-take-with-a-grain-of-salt.

19 hours ago, Maxkitty said:

On the other hand, he has the ability to stay in a fight. His armor makes it harder to kill him, but he still takes the same healing, so basically with a good healer Garrosh has extreme potential. Also Warlord's is a game changing heroic with good coordination. Unless there is a Malthael on the enemy team, I assume he's very powerful.

Garrosh deals a surprising amount of damage once you learn how to properly weave in basic attacks. The armor just give him a lot of uptime and baits a ridiculous amount of overcommitting.

14 hours ago, Leadblast said:

Cmon guys, don't tell me you don't realize Gift of Life can be used together with Abundance to keep her healed at all times. Just keep her inside the circle before using Gift. She doesn't really need another healer in the team.

And yes Dragonqueen has a long cooldown, yet I think she's far better than the likes of Brightwing or Rehgar.

Sure, but her healing values remain pretty low for how much attention she needs.

9 hours ago, Foudmery said:

Can you guys please stop referring to Hotslogs as a legitimate winrate percentage source, that's just silly.

I take them with a grain of salt and combine them with my personal experience. Winrates aren't the only thing that are taken into account here, but they're a useful tool to see trends, along hero popularity.

8 hours ago, Fliits said:

Thank you for yet another fun tier list to start discussion about the meta of the game.

I think you're overestimating Alextrasza's weaknesses. Although she's difficult to master and she has some problems with her healing, I still think she is powerful enough to stand her ground. She is still in need of some buffs, mostly to her trait.

Kerrigan was a surprise to me. Haven't seen her that much in HL, but I guess the stats speak for themselves.

Zul'Jin and Samuro really deserve their rise in the tiers, but Jaina? Has she really gone that far? I always thought Jaina and Kael'Thas were on equal footing when it came to damage. I've always preferred KT myself and I kind of understand the change, but still.

All your other tier loverings seem fine, but as you said most of them came a month late. I still think you should update these at least every time a big update is released.

The dev team has really balanced the healer meta game and I think most of them are currently as balanced as can be. Tassadar has really fallen to his previous niche healer place again. We'll see if they decide to buff him again to make him overpowered for a few days. Regarding Rehgar, he didn't ever really fall as down as you predicted.

Yeah, I was on the busier side this month. I'm trying to update more often, but the meta is a bit of a cluster(...) right now. I'm looking forward to the other changes which will... well, make everything more confusing. And fun.

Regarding Alex, I'm pretty confident with my call. We'll see if she gets buffs.

7 hours ago, ShadowerDerek said:

I'm very glad that you take my comments at the last tier list into consideration.

But there're still some heroes' assessments that can be discussed.

Sonya is really strong right now. She's probably THE best solo laner thanks to her great sustain and damage, and her team fight presence is really strong. She can apply enormous pressure on the enemy backline with her high single-target damage (poisoned spear btw), which can break the double-support comp very effectively. Not to mention that she's extremely hard to kill at late game (Nerve of Steel and Ignore Pain).

Diablo had kind of fallen out of favour imo. Despite his enormous health pool, he's really fragile against poke damage since he has no sustain at all. So he's quite weak against Double support because 1) Its damage is mostly from a range assassin's poke; 2) The supports can keep their team alive even if Diablo catch someone with his combo. I think he deserves to be in Viable tier.

Muradin defenitely deserves at Core tier right now, with the same reason as Rehgar -  versatility. His rework vastly improves his talent versatility and damage (If you go for damage build. Trust me, it's insane.), and he's never a bad pick when you need a tank.

If I'm not mistaken, Grubby just found out a bug that makes Samuro really clunky to play, and he said he'll never play him until Blizzard fix it. This bug may makes him much less viable.

I haven't play Alexstraza myself, but from my experience of playing with and against her, she seems pretty strong, especially in double support comp. Her damage is surprisingly high, and her burst heal is really strong. Even though her Q requires her to sacrifice part of her health, she has ways to sustain herself through her W or her lv 7 talent. Dragonqueen is very strong during team fight, and her heroic provide many utility to her kit. You just need to remembet that you're playing a support. (Yes, I've seen many players play her like an assassin. Spamming E on enemy team, diving into the enemy team with her heroic and Dragonqueen and try to push the enemy team into her team. They think they're invincible in during Dragonqueen.) 

For Sonya and Muradin, I certainly agree. I haven't experienced the Samuro issues, so I can't discuss those. As for Diablo, I used to undervalue him as well, but a few close players have showed me the light. He has potential at the highest levels of play.

7 hours ago, Leadblast said:

I think bruiser Varian needs a try now. His tank build has been outplaced by Garrosh since months ago but he's still a good assassin with decent sustain with Wall Parry and Second Wind talents. His best asset has to be his Mortal Strike talent which prevents enemy healing.

EDIT: Oh and I also forgot to point out how much I disagree with Kerrigan's rise. She's still limping from her last batch of nerfs some months ago, and the latest patches have done literally nothing for her.

I'll check into getting some bruiser Varian games in.

7 hours ago, ShadowerDerek said:

Also, isn't Chen and Tyrael at viable tier in the last tier list? Why they don't have a red arrow, and why do they drop to top tier? I think some explainations on the assessment is needed.

Maybe, I'll double check. I confuse myself at times.

2 hours ago, SleepySheepy said:

Why is Junkrat in Niche tier? If there is a place where enemy must gather, his grenades gain a lot of value, especially once you reach level 16. Once you get Endless NadesEndless Nades, it becomes really hard to push on your Keep. His Conc Mine is also versatile, being escape tool or displacement similar to Garrosh's combo, albeit being harder to pull off. Plus, his level 13  talent Ripper AirRipper Air gives him semi-global status, you won't be as fast Dehaka at reaching one place, but you'll be faster at getting back. Can do camps at cost of some of his HP, you just have to alter between Q and AA.
Only thing I see about him that's a bit lackluster is his Heroic abilities, they need setup.
If it was up to me, I would place him in at least Viable.

He'll shine in a meta that doesn't feature infinite aoe sustain.

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21 hours ago, Oxygen said:

The devs I've spoken to at BlizzCon have agreed that she was undertuned. Take what you will from this combined to her low on-release popularity and winrates.

Do you think she'll get some buffs? The Hanzo PTR patch has nothing for her, though.

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Is this tier list geared towards pro play or HL? 

Regardless, Genji's performance at Blizzcon was definitely underwhelming for a prime tier hero. Arthas and Malthael also had horrendous winrates but I agree in HL they can still be a menace. Genji however has some of the worst winrates in HL as well. I can't rly see an argument for Genji that up high after repeated nerfs.

The Blizzcon meta was dominated by Muradin, Greymane and Rehgar. With the nerf to Heavy Impact, Muradin will probably fall off but imo Rehgar should make it up to Prime.

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